So @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER and I are planning to play a game of WHFB 8th on the weekend. In the past I've avoided fielding my Warriors of Chaos against her because it tends to unbalance the game. The few times we have played it, the game was quite lobsided. As such, I usually opt to play either my Chaos Dwarfs, Lizardmen or Tomb Kings, which results in a better balanced game. That said, I've had the Warriors of Chaos itch as of late and I wish to not only field them, but test out one of my power lists (Troll time). So I thought it only sporting to give @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER a points advantage to level the playing field. The question is, how much of a points advantage should I give her? The game specifics: standard 8th edition WHFB game, battleline, randomly generated terrain, 6x4 table I'll be fielding 3,000 points (as usual) I'll be playing an exclusively WoC list @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER will be fielding a combined list where she can make her selections from the Wood Elves and Lizardmen army books as if they were one giant army book (no alliance rules) I've never set up an uneven pointed game. So the question is, if my points allowance is 3,000, what should @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER 's points allowance be? What would make for a well-balanced game without going overboard? Vote and discuss. @Killer Angel @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Imrahil @Scalenex and anyone else willing to share their thoughts.
250 pts is less than 10%, almost negligible 500 pts is a meaningful advantage 750 is a quarter of the army, which may be a lot I'd say 500 and evaluate for the next games
This is what it was like the first time I beat Warriors of Chaos with Lizardmen. Not this bad. I think I won my 8th or 9th battle. Note, it was an Invasion Scenario (so not a normal game) and I used the Lore of Undead (not a normal BRB lore). I'm not sure how Wood Elves work against WoC. I only played them once under the 8th edition book and they beat me in a tournament pretty badly.
Let me just say that the SJWs would really like our upcoming game. Lots of "representation". I really got to get around to assembling more of my minis.
Here were our lists: NIGHTBRINGER - Warriors of Chaos @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER - Wood Elves + Lizardmen (as if they were one army, no alliance rules) [3499pts] Lords Spellweaver [335] - Dispel Scroll, Potion of Toughness, Talisman of Preservation, level 4, lore of Light, Elven Steed Treeman Ancient [310] - level 2, lore of Life, strangleroot Saurus Oldblood [233] - Spear, Dawnstone, Trickster's Helm Slann Mage-Priest [355] - Harmonic Convergence, BSB (this is a duplicate BSB selection that @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER made, which I am only noticing now that I have her list in hand, she never played it as a BSB though), lore of Death Heroes Glade Captain [185] - Armour of Destiny, BSB, War Banner (this is another error that was discovered in-game, she cannot give this character a magic standard and additional magic items. This is the character she played as her BSB in-game. Upon noticing the error midway through I let her play the effects of both her War Banner and her Armour of Destiny) Naestra and Arahan [495] - Ceithin-Har (Forest Dragon) Core 24x Glade Guard [380] - Trueflight Arrows 20x Saurus Warriors [250] - Spears, Full Command 18x Skink Cohort [120] - Full Command 18x Skink Cohort [120] - Full Command Special 5x Sisters of the Thorn [165] - Musician, Standard Bearer, Lichebone Pennant 5x Sisters of the Thorn [150] - Musician, Standard Bearer 6x Chameleon Skinks [78] 6x Chameleon Skinks [78] Rare Treeman [245] Looking at the lists... any guesses on the outcome?
well well well... basically, @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER got Naestra and Arahan on Ceithin-Har as free bonus. That said, i think your chaos list will have the edge. Her magic was strong and almost unopposed, but i don't think she could be able to stop you. Plus, she made some choices that puzzle me, so while your list is powerful her list was not at the same level
That's her favorite character. I don't think I've ever seen her field a list without them and they usually perform very well for her (terrorized my Tomb Kings for instance). Agreed. My list is extremely fine tuned (in my opinion) while I think hers was unbalanced (once again in my opinion, although I concede that different players have different styles/strategies of play). Too many points invested in characters. Too many points invested in magic. Very little in the way of combat (or evasion). I'll post a brief summary of the game tomorrow or the day after. Good times were had.
@Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER 's spells: Slann - Soulblight, Doom and Darkness, Purple Sun, Spirit Leech Spellweaver - Speed of Light, Net of Amyntok, Birona's Timewarp, Banishment Treeman Ancient - Shield of Thorns, Regrowth Sister of the Thorn (unit 1) - Shield of Thorns, Curse of Anraheir Sister of the Thorn (unit 2) - Shield of Thorns, Curse of Anraheir NIGHTBRINGER's spells: Daemon Prince - Acquiescence, Pavane of Slaanesh, Hysterical Frenzy, Slicing Shards, Cacophonic Choir Final result: @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER's forces got tabled at the top of turn 6. Her last remaining Sister of Thorn died via self-inflicted miscast (we had a good laugh at this). I had lost two units of hounds, one Chimera and my remaining Chimera survived on its final wound. I also lost a few trolls from both of my units, but they were still combat viable. Magic if anything turned out in my favour, despite the @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER 's heavy investment in it. She just didn't have the power dice to drive that many spells through. The spells she did get through had negligible effect. On the other hand, my magic phases were subtle but very useful. The main stars were easily Acquiescence and Cacophonic Choir. The random movement D6 effect of both of those spells allowed my forces to dominate the movement phase. For instance, going into the final rounds of the game, @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER had the intention (even stating as much) to keep her Naestra and Arahan sisters + dragon alive by flying them outside of my charge arcs. My Daemon Prince pinned her down with Acquiescence and it was charged in my next turn (turn 5) by my DP and Skullcrushers. The DP issued a challenge, killing both sisters, which alongside of the charge + flank, meant the dragon broke from combat and was run down. Cacophonic Choir took 3 wounds off her Treeman, which was subsequently finished off by my DP in close combat. Movement favoured the WoC. The army was just too fast, both innately and because of the aforementioned random movement Slaanesh spells. Shooting obviously went in favour of the WE + Lizardmen. The sisters, Naestra and Arahan, shot down my Chimera over the course of two rounds. She also picked off a few trolls here and there and killed some hounds. Most of the damage was done in combat, which was absolutely dominated by my WoC. She simply didn't have any credible threats against my units. Her one combat block, Saurus Warriors + Oldblood, were put in a bad position after charging and wiping out my hounds, and were subsequently hit in the front by my unit of Trolls and the Chimera in the flank. They did not fair well. Said Trolls then went on to engage in a protracted combat with her Treeman Ancient until my Skullcrushers charged the Treeman's rear and stripped it of its final wounds. The DP was an absolute terror in the game in terms of battlefield control, close combat (killing a Treeman and the Naestra and Arahan sisters) and using magic to disrupt the opposition. Both Troll units and Skullcrusher units were nearly unkillable. My one Skullcrusher unit with my BSB did next to nothing (except for BSB duties) but that was mainly due to terrain and poor placement on my part. They would have benefited from narrower frontage. The issue arose from my over insistence to keep my two troll units in BSB and Leadership range. My deployment zone was broken up by an (impassable) house and Khemrian Quicksand (which I wanted to desperately avoid for obvious reasons). As a result, my deployment was a bit overcrowded and the one Skullcrusher unit did very little. A couple of learning opportunities from my end: beware of frontage, it works well in combat, but with terrain and other units about, it can make movement a nightmare. 5 Skullcrushers wide is a bit much (in most cases), with 4 being a much better sweet spot. I've got an idea to slightly tweak my list and further optimize it (very much enjoy optimizing lists) Lore of Slaanesh movement control is splendid Chimera are great on offense, but can be vulnerable defensively since they only have 4 wounds each. Best used in pairs or with a DP, unless they are up against a really soft target. My one Chimera did solo @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER 's Glade Guard and BSB unit, but it was admittedly a bit fortunate to do so. It easily could have went the other way. To be honest, the game was settled in list building. If @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER and I had swapped armies at the start of the game, I don't think I'd stand a chance of beating my list with the list that she had come up with. I could have potentially made it a bit closer, but I personally feel that it was inefficient. They had no real combat capabilities and were too slow to keep my units off them. We had a fun game though, despite the lopsided nature of the result. Laughs were had throughout. @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER enjoyed shooting my Chimera in the back and taking out of action. She is very amused when she kills one of my big monsters and especially when she does so with her favourite unit, the Naestra and Arahan sisters on Forest Dragon.