I'm naturally an aggressive player and I love the flexibility that a 2nd Gen. Slann brings to the table. Here's the list I've used with reasonable success at my local GW store. I think the list is fairly standard, but let me know if you see anything you'd chuck. Always looking for little tweaks. Lord: 2nd Gen. Slann Plaque of Protection Plaque of Tepok Diadem of Power BSB Total: 585 Points Hero: Scar Vet - JSOD GW + SH + LA Spawning of Sotec Jag. Charm Total: 133 Points Hero: Lvl 1 Skink Priest Cube of Darkness Total: 105 Points 16 Temple Guard + SH Full Command War Banner Total: 348 Points 12 Skinks Blowpipes 10 Skinks Javs 10 Skinks Javs Skink Total: 192 Points 3 Krox 3 Krox Krox Total: 348 Points 6 Chameleon Skinks Total: 90 Points 3 Salamanders Total: 195 Points Army Total: 1996 Points The changes for the 2250 point list: + Fear Causing Banner to Slann's Unit + 2 Temple Guards + 2 Units of 3 Terradons each - Unit of Cham Skinks + 2 Dispel Scrolls for Priest - Cube of Darkness for Priest Move 1 Skink from Blowpipe unit to Jav unit (i.e. 11 Blowpipes, 11 Javs & 10 Javs) + Scouting ability to 11 Skinks w/ Blowpipes Army Total: 2248 Points Couple of notes: The guys at my GW store tell me I would be crazy not to add the fear causing banner to the Slann/Temple Guard unit. However, the 75 points for this banner really hurts. How often do you think I'll come large rank and file fear causing troops? (BTW Seems like everyone at my local store has a VC army now.) Any advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated, as I'd love to put these 75 points to a more offensive use. Also, I got into a debate about the Cube of Darkness. Again told that I was crazy not to use the Mark of the Old Ones in combination with the Cube. My argument was that I have to pay 35 points to reroll a max of three dice, but that rerolling does not improve my odds. I have a 50% chance of rolling a 4+ with the Cube the first time to end the magic phase. My odds don't improve by using the Mark, as I have the same 50% chance of rolling a 4+ the second time. So why not use the 35 points on something I know will improve my chances of winning? Agree?
It actually does improve your odds. 50% of the time, it will succeed and you won't use the mark. 50% of the time it will fail and you will use the mark. 50% of the time when you have to use the mark (or 25% of the total sample), it will succeed on the second roll and 50% of the time, it will fail you. So statistically, you should increase your success rate to 75% instead of 50%. Also, speaking of one with a long history of losing to fear-causing enemies. Fear is quite possibly the most powerful mechanic of the game because it eliminates margin of failure. Your block of 20 Saurus Warriors led by an Old-Blood and deployed within 12" of the BSB had better win combat against that demon Vampire and his 30 Zombies every single round. Because if you dont, you will autobreak. No cold-blooded. No re-rolls from the BSB. No high leadership. Nothing. Just hope you roll higher than him on 2d6.
As mentioned above, it is statistically better to take the BSoOO with a cube of darkness. For that matter, if you are only relying on a 50% chance, just take 2 dispel scrolls for that guaranteed chance. If you think that the 75 pts is too pricey for something which is not aggressive enough, why are you taking Temple guard in the first place? They do hit a little bit harder, but their higher point cost is mainly due to their defensive capabilities. I would suggest either just putting your slann in a unit of Tlazcotl Saurus, or use the lone slann tactic, and use the point remaining to invest in more offensive units (i.e. Terries, Saurus Riders, etc.). Either way would help a great deal as right now you have one huge glaring point sink around which the rest of your army revolves. P.S. the blessing of Sotek on the JSoD would be better spent on beefing up some R&F
I found when I used the the Temple guard/ fear banner, it worked quite a great deal to my benifit, they didn't break, and they did some great damage vs Ogres and daemons. IMO they made all their points back in both games and kept my slann alive. Without the fear banner there was a couple of times they would have been auto broke, which would have sucked. Although sauruses with Tlazcotl may be just as good or better, haven't tryed them yet. But the 5S I know helped a lot vs ogres.
Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like I have to take the fear causing banner if I go the point sink route with the Slann and Temple Guard. Grrr-Arrghh! Sign me up for one big fat magic banner. Think I'll custom make this piece. Big white flag with bold black lettering: "BOO!" As for the Mark, I'll probably just take a pair of scrolls and be happy. (BTW, I know I'm a little slow in the math dept., but can't figure how adding the Mark would increase odds to 75%. I get 66.6% at best. Three possible outcomes: 4+ on first roll, less than 4 on first roll & reroll a 4+, less than 4 on first roll and reroll also fails.) If there is something wrong with my brain, please let me know. Enlightenment is good. Anyway, Using Tlazcotl Sarus instead of Temple Guard would greatly change the army dynamic. It would give me the ability to field the Slann in the unit or alone. Of course, I'd loose some hitting power, as well as, that handy little stubborn rule. As for running a lone Slann, tell me more? How would I keep him out of combat? His SCR will stink worse than his favorite local spawning pool. Should I try to hide in/behind terrain. Should I drop the JSOD and add second priest for an additional pair of eyes? Seems like I'd have to spend my first couple of turns focusing on eliminating, light cav., flyers, scouts, and other units that could use speed & stealth to engage the Slann. Then focus on the meat of my opponents army. Haven't really thought how this strategy would work. More help (ridicule) please.
Yes, well the point of the lone slann tactic is that you take advantage of the skink priest LOS rule to its maximum. I normally field two priests, although 1 priest with a cloak of feathers has normally been enough for me to avoid having my eyes getting killed. Hiding your Slann behind (preferably inside and out of LOS) terrain, the rest of your list relies upon an MSU approach. I n essence, lots of small, hard hitting, units take out the flanking units (with the aid of second generation magic), while isolating larger blocks of infantry or point sink units. My lone slann list usually is made of 1 2nd gen, 1 skink priest w/wings, 1 cheap JSoD, 3 Krox, 1 hitty terrie unit, 1 full salamander pack, and a bucket load of skinks. The idea is that by having no obvious target besides the slann, you will be able to draw units loose and then fight on your terms by baiting/switching with skinks. Dont forget that a slann counts as a single monster so can turn on the spot a full 360 before moving (so can generally escape most opponents). And if he takes bears anger or flaming sword as 1 basic spell can deal with any lucky survivors that are able to reach him (one can use a jungle swarm or two to redirect a charge if you have trouble keeping the slann alive). Anyway, that is my basic digression into how one can still fit a slann (even a 2nd gen) into a list without using Saurus (I find this list to work better IMHO). I have seen lone slann tactics used in generic lists to great effect, but it appears that your list is already leaning away from the standard Saurus steamroller.
Do you mean 3 Krox total or 3 Krox units? Thanks for the advice. I think I'll try the lone Slann approach for next week's game. Should be fun. Hopefully I don't lead one of the few remaining 2nd. Gens to his demise.
Yeah, normally it is 3 units of 4 Kroxs (no champ). I have fiddled with 2 units of kroxs and Saurus cavalry w/ a huanchi totem (because generally I try to fill the charging lanes with enough baiting skinks that there is no straight charge paths unaided by the Krox special rule, flying, or a huanchi totem), but find that the Saurus cavalry can give away too many points for what they do (100 extra VP from the banner always hurts). And dont worry. Characters never REALLY die . God help us if warhammer actually worked in a narrative or logical manner.
As an aside, I was just wondering how useful the Plaque of Protection is in your case, as the majority of your opponents are VC. Unless the other ones are all dwarf gun-lines, switching for a different plaque might be better (This is definately true with the lone slann tactic as you should be out of war machine LOS for the entire game anyhow).
The lone Slann strategy we've been discussing makes the PofDominion pretty powerful. So, as I see it, switching to the lone Slann would free me from having to spend a considerable amount of points on defensive oriented items/units. - No Totem of Prophecy - No Plaque of Protection (Dominion instead) - No Temple Guard - No War Banner That's a lot of room to add Krox and Terrys. Plus the Slann build will be more powerful and cost less. This sounds more aggressive. I like it. No guts - No glory.
Their are 3 possible outcomes yes. BUT EACH DOES NOT HAVE AN EQUAL PROBABILITY OF HAPPENING. Probability of success first time = 1/2 Probability of failing first time (1/2) and that second time (1/2) = 1/2 x 1/2 ('and' means 'x' in probability, on a side note: 'or' would be '+') = 1/4 Probability of failing first time (1/2) and succeeding second time (1/2) = 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 Probability of success = 1st time success or 2nd time success (remember, 'or' is '+') = 1/2 + 1/4 = 3/4 or 75% I warn you, Lone Slann is VERY risky (although I love it also). When using a Lone Slann list, if the Slann dies you lose, if the Slann survives, you have probably won (except against pesky elves and their bloody drain magic!).
I'm probably not a good enough player to do well with this list yet. However, in theory I think it suits my play style, so I'd like to field the army and start getting better. Thanks, Kroxigor01, for the quick rundown on the Mark's probability. Have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Glad to have learned something useful. Cheers!