NB All left / right comments are solely from the Lizardmen point of view. Having sent the squishy elves packing from the shores of Lustria last time, the Lizardmen decided to try their luck in the High Elves back yard. However, the elves knew their terrain well and picked quite an open battlefield for their bolt throwers and archers. The General had recovered from his exersions in the last battle and had regained his strength and knowledge. Having been victorious last time, he took the same army, with the exception of the skink priest. This time a different lore, more to boost his own warriors than damage the enemy. Ulthuan was very different to the jungles of Lustria, and the High Elves met the Lizardmen on ground of their choosing. On the left flank the Lizardmen faced a ruined temple on the middle of the field, beyond that, some hills where the elves had set up two bolt throwers. Next to the temple some dangerous terrain, then a gap. In the middle, a small marsh, and towards the right flank a wood and another hill. All across the middle of the elves chosen battlefield. Moving his troops from a marching column into battle deployment, the General deployed the army, taking note of the deploying high elves. Deciding to ignore the bolt throwers as much as possible, a skirmish screen of 2 units of skinks deployed mid table( ie ignoring the left flank), behind them came the steg, a scar vet on cold one, then the General with his bodyguard, and another scar vet mounted on scar vet. to the immediate right of the skirmisher screen was a salamander. Then a gap in the lines due to the wood, the second salamander deployed to the right of the wood and opposite the gap between the wood and hill on the extreme right flank. Lastly, behind the right flank hill, the skink/kroxigor unit deployed directly ahead of saurus warriors. Opposite, the High Elves had the two bolt throwers on the far left flank hill, in front and to the left of them, an eagle and a unit of 10 archers. Mid field the Swordmasters and White Lions, both looking eager to get into the fray to avenge previously fallen comrades. the elves also left a gap opposite the wood, another unit of 10 archers and a frost phoenix. After another small gap, a third unit of archers and an eagle on the very right. As the General viewed the battle field in the calm before the coming storm. It was this right flank of the Lizardmen where the general thought he would push hardest, turn the flank and roll up the elves. Could his ambitious plan work? (T1) The elves made the first move. "Typically impetuous warm bloods" thought the general. the right most eagle moved up to the hill. All archers remained as deployed. The frost phoenix moved to between the marsh and wood, and the two main elven infantry blocks marched forward. The elven arch-mage summoned the Winds of Magic. "Average" thought the General. He then tries to channel and gets one more. The General can feel the Winds of Magic slightly favouring the Elves, but no matter. Only one spell is cast - Hand of Glory on the Frost Phoenix. Elven shooting then took its toll. the right most salamander is hit, but its scaly skin shrugs off the elven arrows. Unfortunately the left most unit of skinks are not so lucky, 5 die to a combination of archery and bolt thrower fire. However, being close, the General calms their frayed nerves, and they hold position. Now the Gerneral moves his troops. He wants to turn the elven battle line - the weak spot is on his right. The skinks/krox unit marches up, followed by the saurus. The left salamander moves up next to the wood but facing the main elven infantry blocks at an oblique angle. The right salamander also moves up and is in a position to flame either unit of archers on his side of the field. The Temple Guard move up, supported by the two scar vets and the steg. The skink skirmishers move ahead, one to face the swordmasters, the other to face the frost phoenix. In Ulthuan, the winds of magic appeared to be favouring the elves. A poor showing meant only two spells - Panns Pelt on a scar vet by the Priest was dispelled, but the General cast Drain Magic on the phoenix. In shooting the skrox kill the eagle with poisoned javelins. The right most salamander then spouts flames and kills four of the archers behind the eagle. They hold. The left most salamander however does even better, and hits the white lions with a near perfect shot - 8 die, about a third of the unit. The skink skirmishers are not to be outdone, and the unit of 10 facing the frost phoenix get 3 wounds on it thanks to poison. The other unit which has been whittled down earlier also manage a single kill, on the swordmasters. (T2) This seemed to spur the swordmaster into action - They charge the skinks. Their reactions were slow, too slow. They tried to flee but were run down. However their deaths were not in vain, the swordmasters were now out of posiiton on their own, facing the stegadon and a mounted scar vet directly to their front. The white lions were still behind the marsh. The frost phoenix also charged. The skinks also fled and managed to outrun it by getting behind the General and his Guards. The phoenix ended up still hidden by the wood but still threatening the TG and a scar vet. It was then that the elves again brought up troops behind the lizardmen main line. A unit of spearmen with a mage. Again, directly behind the saurus. "Will they never learn?" wondered the General. "If they come on like this in the same old fashion, we'll have to beat them in the same old fashion" (Apologies to historians for really badly misquoting Wellington). However this was a different mage to last time. The elven mages focused and gathered a huge amount of power of the the Winds of Magic. The General was under pressure, could he fight them off? Trying to channel...he succeeds (11 on dice, and I channelled 3 times - 11 vs 9). The elven high mage tried to heal the frost phoenix, this was dispelled. The new mage then showed his true colours - A Life Mage, with Dwellers Below. The General was hit by a huge magical force which he could not dispel, his saurus warriors were hit with the spell. Their fate was in their own hands now. The strong will survive, the weak perish. The saurus warriors were equal to the task, only 3 were lost to elven spell. However now came the feedback to the elven mage for casting it with irrisistible force. A dimensional cascade! The General actually felt something close to sympathy when he saw, or rather "felt" 11 spearmen perish. For an instant the mage survived, struggling with the overpowering energy around him. He was obviously wounded by something, and this broke his concentration. he could fight no more, and was sucked into the netherworld. The magical vortex had expended all its energy in that final victim. It dissipated. In shooting, the skrox lose a skink, and the bolt throwers get a wound on the steg. Having either run away or been run down there was no combat. This could be it for the Lizardmen, finish this quickly - The steg and left most scr vet were ordered to charge the swordmasters, the skrox charged the archers on the right. The saurus did an about face waiting for the elves to charge. The skinks which had fled through the TG now moved to protect the flank of the steg as the remaining eagle had been moving up. The winds of magic were again not helping the General. Again there were only two spells cast - Panns on the scarvet which was again dispelled and Wyssans on the stegadon. In shooting the salamanders fired. The right most one was still a little untrained and ate two of its handlers. The one of the left shot, but fell short of the white lions. On the right, the skrox were too close for the elves to stand and shoot. While a couple of skinks fell in combat, there was only one result once the kroxigor hit. What was left of the elves ran, but were not quick enough and were run down.. The steg and the scar vet both hit the swordmasters. The steg hit with massive power, sending 7 of the swordmasters to their deaths through the sheer force of the charge. The swordmasters held their lines and swung at the beasts assailing them. However the death of so many in one hit appeared to have shaken their resolve. Only one wound on the stegadon, while the scar vets Armour of Destiny proved its worth. Now the steg and scar vet/cold one hit back. But what was this, perhaps sensing an easy victory following the seven impact hits, both the steg and the scar vet failed to hit once. However with their ranks thinned by earlier shooting and the loss of 7 earlier, the remaining unit turned and fled. The scar vet though was too quick and ran them down. This put him in a somewhat dangerous position, being within charge range of the White Lions. (T3) Having been a little out of the action so far, the elven eagle which started close to the bolt throwers now charged the skinks, of which there were 6 left. The skinks opted to stand and shoot. The spearmen obliged and charged the saurus The frost phoenix then flew over the wood, landing a short distance from the flank of the saurus. If the elves could hold for one turn, the saurus would be in trouble.... The elven arch mage again drew a lot of power from the winds of magic, with the Genral gaining some benefit too (11, plus 2 lizardmen channels - 11 vs 8). The elves cast Tempest at the Temple Guard. This was where the General showed a little inexperience - He let it through, suspecting more powerful spells later. This caused 5 dead temple guard. Hand of glory was also cast but dispelled. In shooting the skrox lost a couple more skinks. The charged skinks held their nerve and threw their javelins straight and true. The eagle was dead before it hit them. Over on the extreme right flank the General looked on as the elveish spearmen hit his saurus. However their blows were weak and only one dropped. In return his saurus laid low 7 or 8 elves. The rest fled. Not being able to contain themselves, the saurus chased the elves out of sight. Initially the General cursed their weak will. but then realised it might be a blessing is disguise as the Frost phoenix no longer had a unit to charge. (The elves fled in their turn. I then charged them and they fled off table. I also followed up off table) Ulthuan again hampered the Generals claims on the winds of magic. Seeing what was about to happen, he let the priest cast Panns and Wyssans. Panns was dispelled, but Wyssans was cast with too much power. Fortunately only the priest and the General took a wound (rolled an 8 on the miscast table) (T4) The White Lions charged the lone scar vet. He was going to stand but follwoing orders from the slann, feld. The General had the wider view not just what was going on in front of him. The White lions were moving closer to the salamanders. The frost phoenix then flew over to threaten the skrox unit which was reading to charge an archer unit. Now the elvish magic let them down. No spells were successfully cast. The elves then saw the stegadon unprotected by either a skirmisher screen or combat, and fired the bolt throwers and archers at it. The beast was severely wounded but survived, just. Having turned to face, the archers missed the skrox unit. The General was pleased to see his saurus return, their snouts bloodied. The skrox turn to face the phoenix. The TG hold while the scar vets move to one side of the White lions, hoping to get flank charges if the opportunity is presented. The steg moves to get out of fire of the bolt throwers. In magic only Wyssans is cast on the TG. The skrox shoot at the phoenix, and thanks again to poison, kill it. The salamanders fire, taking some off the white lions and a couple off the archer unit close tot he skrox. The latter fail their leadership test and flee the battle. (T5) The remaining white lions charge the TG. Before combat the General has one more trick - The Egg of Quango. 10 strong hits. However the elves show that two can play that game and thanks to the Banner of the World Dragon, not one elf dies. In combat the white lions kill 5, even with Wyssans on them. Returning the favour, the TG also kill 5. Thanks to ranks, the TG win but the elves hold. (Very little happened in the elvish magic phase - I dispelled one or two spells that were attempted) The elvish bolt throwers and accompanying archers then saw the remaining skirmishers as a target of opportunity - And wipe them out. With the General locked in combat, he tries to regain a wound on the steg but this is dispelled. The priest then gets Wyssans off on the TG. The left most Salamander is told to charge the flank of the white lions to boost the chances of victory. In the ensuing combat another 5 TG are lost, but 8 white lions die, including the BSB. This leaves only the arch mage who flees. Neither the TG nor the salamander can catch him. The General called off his troops - He wanted there to be survivors to take tales of the Lizardmen victory back to the cities. Each time the tale was told he knew the impact would be greater. His wasn't an invasion of Ulthuan just an expedition to make an example of the warm bloods for setting foot on the sacred shores of Lustria. At this point we called it. A massive win for the lizards c1700pts vs 140. I must confess that apart from the steg and scarvet whiffing all their to hit rolls on one turn, I was extremely lucky. Making a number of hits/wounds/saves just when needed. My oppo on the other hand was quite unlucky - Dimensional Cascade on the first spell his Life mage cast for example. Now waiting for Captain Karma to kick my butt in the next game!
Another very fun read Gary_M and congrats on the victory. I'm actually trying to find a way to help my HE friend improve his army when fighting us. Any thoughts for what is effective?
Deployment: I think deployment is a big factor. My oppo put the terrain out both times, and very fairly. But on each occassion theres been a hill at the back, on one side or other, and his bolt throwers are there. I could therefore avoid them. Also with deployment, with a small army, dont try to cover the width of the entire board. My oppo did. This left him vulnerable to me piercing his line and potentially rolling up his army. (I've played a lot of ancient wargames and acknowledge that its not a simple as that in WFB given magic, but the theory is correct). By deploying more together, there are limited opportunities for flank attacks, With a deep formation you can put pressure on a small area. This does leave you potentially more vulnerable to 'nuke' spells, but a level 4 should be ok for most (plus a dispel scroll of course!) Refuse a flank - While you don't deploy there, you can still cover it (bows - See below) or protect it with skirmishers and some better quality stuff. What to target: In terms of our units - If I was the HE player, I'd target the Sallies first. Get rid of those and I'd be happy. They were one of very few things my oppo didn't have a ward save against. Use magic to buff / hex, but when it's two level 4 mages going at it (and the lizzies are channeling 3 dice on 5s) its a bit of an uphill battle. Units/Tactics: Next, possibly concentrate fire. The best my oppo got was two bolt throwers and a 10 man archer unit firing on one target. I play orks in 40k and know that if you roll enough dice, you will get rolls you want. Lots of archery fire will eventually take things down. Not sure if it would work, but if Bolt throwers and two (maybe all three?) archer units were together, it could potentially be very expensive for me to reach his units (depends on what was in the Lizardman list of course). Would 3 x 10 archers and 2 x bolt throwers be able to deny an area of the board? Our skinks are very good chaff. I have no idea what HE can use as chaff. The archers used against me did not have skirmish. Can they have cavalry? Possibly some fast cav to threaten and keep us off guard. The eagles I guess could be good chaff, but I'd need to work with flyers to see how I could use them. I have a unit Terradons, but have never used them! Twice my oppo used a magic item to ambush. I wouldn't bother. You can't charge on the turn you arrive using it, which gives me a turn to about face. In both games my plain, unbuffed saurus have beaten the HE spears. IMO the ambush left one unit unsupported and not able to move anywhere other than into a combat it is likely to lose. Personally I'd save the points, put the spears on the table from the start and benefit from the support of other units as well as the support the spears can give. Fighting Swordmasters was fine but I might not have charged in if I thought I'd face a flanking counter charge from his spearmen. Also, he deployed them, 10 wide, 3 deep, so my saurus in 5 x 5 were always at least 2 up from the start. Now I appreciate how Combat Res works, I'd deploy the spearmen deeper. As I acknowledged earlier, I was lucky on a number of occassions so a different day might well have had a different result. All that said, I know nothing about High Elves in terms of what other units they can take so am basing all this on the army I faced. I got beaten a lot of times (to a number of different oppos) before my last two games. I learnt a lot from this forum and related it to how I'd played previously. I'm sure I've seen somewhere a link to a similar forum for HE (Ulthuan?) - If its anything like this forum it will be mine of great advice. But go with what he likes - I know saurus aren't considered competitve, but I like them so will always take at least one unit. Any other posters, please shoot any of these comments down - I am inexperienced generally, and am basing the above on only two games both against the same army.
Not sure if your lone scarvet that faced the white lions was on a CO or not(i'm just guessing here) but stupid creatures can't ever choose to flee. He had stand there and get rekt Spearman are a fluff choice. Any competitive HE list is archers/reavers and silver helms. Maybe some seaguard but probably not. Teclis works for super powering the HE list. That guy is all kinds of broken. SC aside you should have 3-4 bolt throwers. Phoenix guard also grind insanely well against everything, but especially saurus. Then it's list preference. Dragon prince bus, Banner hordes, double frosty, light councils ect..
I strongly suspect that the HE list was sub-par, even though it contained White Lions, one Frostie and Swordmasters. He may have been restricted by the figures he had, although I am fine with regard to proxies. I was lucky in being able to chose my combats (except for making the mistake with the fleeing scarvet (ooops) although I don't think this made much of a difference to be honest, would have given him another 150 points or so. And also lucky that a number of dice rolls were good for me / poor for him. I was apologising at least once evry turn after about T2! I don't know the HE army book at all but wouldn't mind trying the battle using them while my oppo uses Lizardmen.