Hi all, I've got a list set up for a game vs Empire. The main reason for this list is to try out some things to see how good they work. So I'm trying to find counters and have a lot of fun annoying my big bro. ( this is only my 5th game of WFB) I will explain why I took each unit/character. If my reasons for taking them don't make sense or you have tried this out yourself and it has proven to be inaffective, then pls share . Im playing my Bro and, well, his list doesn't realy change alot per game. I'll probably be facing: That mad general with 'all hits auto wound with no AS allowed' / 1 lvl 4 Life / 1 lvl 2 Fire or Death / 1 steamtank / 4 Demigryphs / 10 Inner Circle knights / 2 cannons / 1 volleygun / 40--60 spearmen / 20-30 greatswords / some detachments. So here is my list: Lords: Oldblood: Cold One; LA; Piranha Blade; Enchanted Shield; Dawnstone; Potion of Strength. I want to try and take down his steamtank ( I don't want to take metal as magic). I've listened to comments on how to deal with the steamtank and I will try this out. This guy will be in a unit of 5 Cold One Riders so I don't see the need of giving him a ward save. Skinks will be placed in front so that we first fight in my turn where the steamtank doesn't have power. Slann: Focus of Mystery. I've taken light & life so far, want to try out High magic + will be swapping Searing doom for demigryphs this game. Do not have enough points left to give him anything usefull. Heroes: Scar Vet BSB: shield; armour of destiny. Didn't have the lord points for Slann BSB. No special tasks other then making my saurus block stronger. Skink Chief: Terradon; spear; shield; LA; Stegadon helm of Itza; luckstone; ironcurse icon. I haven't used the chief on flyer before so this is another test. I take the terradon over the ripper because I want to make sure I'm charging the right unit. His task is to try and take out the lvl 4 caster. With impacthits and STR 5 on the charge I think he will be able to do this. Alot depends on this guy since I didn't take a priest, nor scroll ( dropping the priest gave me points for soladron). My bro usually places the lvl 4 in the spearmen unit or if he remembers my Dwellers from a previous game, as a solo. Skink Chief: Terradon; spear; LA; shield; Egg of Quango; Dragon helm. Objective: take out a warmachine ( or at least treathen them) & go in the rear of a weaker unit like spearmen to cause some damage with the egg and offer some help. Do you guys maybe think he should help out the other one if the lvl 4 is in the spearmen unit before even going for warmachines? ( Egg the unit before he possibly dies in other words). Core: 40 saurus warriors: full cmd; spears. They will do good vs spearmen or greatswords. Don't really care who they end up fighting of these two ( confident in them). 10 skink skirmishers: javs & shields To block the steamtank, so my Old blood can have the fight in my turn ( maybe even the charge). 10 skink skirmishers: javs & shields Inner circle knights blocker. 10 skink skirmishers: javs & shields Hoping to stall the Demigryphs for a turn. I always use my sking skirmishers like this and have had great succes getting the fights I want when I want them. If I should use skink skirmishers for better tactics then by all means tell me . I play 2500pts almost every game and I like the 35SW + 3 units of 10 skink skirmishers wich give exactly 625, but I had some pts left to make the saurus block a little bit bigger. I normally run them 6by6. having 40 I might go horde if I don't lose to many in the back row from shooting attacks. Special: 26 Temple Guard: full cmd; Razor Banner. My normal set up for these guys. Buffer for the Slann & I love the razor standard on them. I'll try and get these guys in contact with the inner circle knights. I run them 6wide 5deep. 5 Cold One Riders: full cmd. Giving some aid to my Oldlbood ( cannon shots). 1 Solardon. Only have the Slann so the spell is nice to have. +1I vs a possible lvl 2 death wizard. Tell me what you guys think. I'm trying out stuff since I'm rather new. Cheers
Hello! If you are worried that a cannonball will stop your old blood why not put a charmed shield on him instead of a unit of CO? A lot cheaper and negates the first wound. Remeber that if you don't kill the steamtank first round of combat, and his life-mage heals the tank back up then both tank and oldblood will be stuck with eachother for the rest of the game. You don't want your old blood tarpitted... Not enough lord points? At 2500p you should have more than enough to make whatever you want, more or less. Skip the scar-vet and put BSB on Slann and get him some more powers and items, like channeling staff and that discipline that lets him channel with three dice. Reroll dispel attempt? Yes please! The fliers looks nice but are risky. I have no experience from them and wouldn't field them like this. Expect one of them to fall too quickly to his guns and cannons and gone are alot of your precious points. Killing warmachines, I would give to cowboys and chameleons. How is your chief going to take out his lv4? In a challenge? Your core is awesome and you are spot-on with using your skinks as redirectors! Maybe switch some points around, swap the Solardon maybe and get a Stegadon and watch it stomp his core to bits? Best of luck!
Hey, thx for the reply. The charmed shield: I always looked over this item probably because it doesn't give an extra AS and is one use only. ( Basically I forgot it existed). It is actually indeed very great so thx for reminding me about this option . Steamtank: Completely didn't think about the fact that he might be stuck after the 1st round, and with a total of 485pts ( Old blood + cold ones) that would be horrific! Thx for that insight. So on my question on this site: "how to deal with steamtank", people have been saying that a unit of 6 Krox are way better than using an oldblood for it, so I will definatly switch this up. This might not be an ultimate counter either or wathever, but frankly I want to find something vs the steamtank, because if i don't feed it alot of skinks and have no option like this, it will break my entire army tbh ( I really think it is OP as sh*t). Also quick question: So it is legit to heal it? because it isn't even something that is alive :S. ( We did let it be healed, but it makes no sense at all). Lordpoints: The Slann I like has: Soul of Stone, Becalming cogitation, Harmonic Converge and Focus of Mystery (if I take High magic ofc). So without any magic items he's cost is 415pts. At 2500pts I only have 625pts for lords, so that leaves me with 210pts for an Oldblood. That is just not enough for having both at full strength. I feel like I need the Old blood, if not for the steamtank then probably for the Demigryphs. Scar Vet BSB: THink for Lord pts I do need to keep this one like this. I'll see what I can do. Flyers: I just want to use them, they seem so cool . I'll probably drop the one with the Egg so I have pts for krox. The one who will face the wizard: If I get the charge off, then i decide where he fights, aslong as I maximize I can just put him up to the Wizard and say all attacks go on him. Or am I missing some rule here? ( I did look it up and it seems to me that he can't do much about it). Solardon: I'll see what my pts say after changing my list. If I have pts for ancient steg, great! If not I'll stick with the Solardon. This will also depend if I take a priest or not. So thx for the insights, I'll try and forge a better list .
With End Times-settings you can have 50% spent on Lords, so I am guessing you are not playing with this rule? Yes, healing steam-tank is perfectly fine, how silly it may seem. As for counters against it, I don't know. If it gets into closecombat it will grind you down sooner or later if he has his Life mage throwing heals at it. If you want to play unfair get lore master on your Slann or swap a high magic spell and throw the Metal signature at it. Directing attacks at his mage is valid and probably your best bet to take him down in, assuming you get a frontal charge of. Expect to loose your flyer though, but probably worth it if you can shred his lv4. I would seriously consider chameleons to harass his warmachines. If he gets first turn and gets to fire at his desired targets, you are gonna fall behind from the start. Deploy your scouts so that he has to make a hard choice with his cannons. If they can draw some cannonfire for one turn, it is all good.
Where can I find these end times rules? Are there more rulechanges with it? I use chameleons most of the time. I do like m. Lets see if i can squize in a few. After work I'll start working out a new list .
So here it is, the new list: Lords: 719pts Slann: BSB, Soul of Stone, Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Converge, Focus of Mystery, Channeling staff. Old Blood: cold one, LA, Piranha blade, charmed shield, dawnstone, potion of foolhardiness. ( instead of going for the steamtank, he will go fight some demigryphs. Also he will be a solo char). Heroes: 221pts Skink Chief: Terradon, spear, LA, shield, sacred helm of Itza, luckstone, ironcurse icon. (lvl 4 life killer) Skink Priest: lvl 1 heavens, dispel scroll. Core: 657pts 36 saurus warriors: full cmd, spears. (fight the big spearmen block) 11 skink skirmishers: javs & shields (block steamtank) 11 skink skirmishers: javs & shields (block inner circle) 11 skink skirmishers: javs & shields (block demigryphs) Special: 817pts 26 Temple guards: full cmd, Razor standard. (inner circle) 6 Kroxigors (steamtank) 6 Chameleon skinks (warmachines) Rare: --pts Salamander + snack (maybe eat some cannon shots, going for greatswords)
Hi, lovely to hear that you are new to WHF battles and that you are still trying the good old game out, not everything has been trampled in the dust after Age of Shitmar. . The most important rulechanges in the End Times are that you can spend 50% on Lords, 50% on Heroes but 50% in total on characters in stead of the old 25% on Lords, 25% on Heroes. This is the only thing that affects all armies, TK got some (but not enough) buffs to make it playable again, and i can happen that you come across someone who has allied the TK and the VC together or the WE and the HE, but an opponent will explain that to you if you ask. Only big thing is the Char point rules, and most people also play it with 50% Lords and Heroes as it gives you a lot more freedom with listbuilding. You got a good starter list here, i would only really change the lore of the priest and the banner on the TG, but even that could be called flavour. You got a good basic list here. Also, i see that i used a lot of WHF lingo in my message, if you do not understand what i'm saying, there is a really good glossary in the Tactics subforum. Glhf, and Welcome to the Jungle!
Hey thx for the reply. I've so far used beast and i do love it, but i want to try this out to see how it goes. What banner would you use on TG? The ld +1 one that i see in most lists? I don't really understand the use of that banner. I did understand the lango so np
Because your Slann is also the BSB, he can take a magical banner AND take other magical items. On him you put the Banner of Command, giving you +1 LD. That banner is dirt cheap, only 15 points, the drawback is that you cannot use the Generals ''Inspiring Presence'' rule, so in most armies this item is bad, as it lowers your leadership, your generals LD is generally the best. But, as the Slann is the character in the unit, it gives it's LD of 10 to the unit it is with, so the unit of TG has then LD 10 (on 3D6 rerolling because of BSB). The Banner of Command also does not stop you from generating an Inspiring Presence, the unit in questiong just cannot use the Inspiring Presence (what does not matter, as the Slann still gives the LD to the unit it is with). So, you have an LD10 12'' 3D6 bubble on Stubborn with your TG, this is basically the best LD you can get next to being Unbreakable (which is arguably worse then this, because you still have the possibility to flee as a charge reaction, but that is an extremely risky thing indeed, becasue if you lose the roleoff, your Slann is dead). This is why you take the banner of Command on your Slann. I did not come up with it, it's a well known LM trick. Hope you now understand the use of it. So you have room for 2 banners on your TG block, one from your Slann and one from the Banner. A good banner in general is the Gleaming Pennant, that lets you reroll the first failed LD test for 5 points, a literal steal. But you already reroll due to the BSB, and thus giving you more movement, the Banner of Swiftness is better on the TG as it gives your big, almost Deathstar unit, just that 2'' more to cast spells and move, and it gives you +1 on charges. WHF is mostly a movement based game, so it is a cheap thing that improves a very important thing. And if you just want to try it out, feel free. Iceshard Blizzard is ok, it's just not as good as Wyssans, IMHO.
Thx for the explenation! I thought the unit wouldnt be able to use the slans ld anymore then lol. Maybe ill lose a skink or 2 for an extra banner
Uhm... the Banner of Command goes in the TG unit, which in turns gives your Slann +1 LD (if he is bunkered in the TG unit of course), for a total of 10, and he can still use his Inspiring presence to give to other units. Not being able to use inspiring presence is an instant loss considering the poor leadership on other units, like skinks and monsters. Suggested banners on the Slann is Eternal Flame which negates any regen units your TG comes up against, which they likely will against a Life mage. Swiftness is never a bad choice, as stated.
Uhm, no? You give it to the Slann, it gives him the direct +1 LD. I really don't understand how someone can misconstrue how it works after i explained it in such detail. XD If the Slann has the Banner of Command with BSB, he gives a LD 10 bubble with reroll, i hope i am clear enough now. I sortoff dislike Eternal Flame, as the other two options are always effective, Eternal Flame is sometimes a disadvantage with the ammount of Dragonbane Gems and Dragon Knights riding around, and it is only marginally cheaper. It is still something to be considered when you are up against a lot of regen in your local meta, or when you know you are going to play against Trolls for example.
Cool list. I'm not sure if I would put spears on your unit of 36 Saurus though, especially if you want to fight other spearmen. You might not charge each other for quite a while, and will end up loosing vic. points. I suggest you put regular base weps and shields onto your saurus and be the first to charge. Although the enemy will get a bonus rank to attack you with, S3 won't damage you too much, especially with the Armour Save 4+ and the 6+ invuln. However, if you are playing against a large number of cavalry units, spears could be helpful. Cool list though! I might just replace the salamander with something (as I don't have one (well, my dog chewed it to bits and now it looks like more of a beast of Nurgle)) else, possibly another unit of skink skirmishers or chameleons.