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AoS 2k Grand Tournament

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by IggyStarhost, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    Hi,

    Our goals with our friendgroup is to visit a Grand tournament and play a 2000 points game.

    I was planning a thunderquake:

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    Leaders
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)

    Battleline
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
    15 x Saurus Guard (270)

    Units
    3 x Kroxigor (160)

    Behemoths
    Bastiladon (280)
    Bastiladon (280)

    Battalions
    Thunderquake Starhost (120)

    Endless Spells
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (60)
    Prismatic Palisade (30)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 86


    The big difference is that I play 15 guard instead off 40 skinks. My reasons for that is that
    a) I dont have enough skinks, I plan to summon most.
    b) it feels this list has enough ranged power. Hence going for kroxigors and Guards to have some melee power aswell.

    I plan to use the quake in the center. Kroxigors and skinks on 1 side and send de guards to the other side and summon a warden for them.

    Then hopefully summon rippers t1 with the engine (curse of fates, 50%). And summon razordons and skinks with the slann. Maybe a carno or chameleon skinks late game.

    Also a reason why I field kroxigor instead of razordon, is that kroxigors take a while to get summoned compared to solo razordons you can push out in segments early on.

    Love to hear your thoughts!
     
    Aginor likes this.
  2. LizardWizard
    Kroxigor

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    This looks like a solid list.

    You might consider bringing an Emerald Lifeswarm to return slain models and offset your Saurus Guard's vulnerability to mortal wounds.

    Summoned Razordons are much less effective than TqS Razordons. You will still get the reroll hits from Proud Defience, but you lose the Savage buff for reroll wounds and saves.

    You mentioned using Curse of Fates and don't include a Skink Starseer. I assume this means you intend to take Vast Intellect as your command trait. Thunderquake's biggest weakness is that the list generally suffers in the objective game. Most of your army is forced to stay near your EotGs making it difficult to spread out for objectives. It is probably worth accepting a little more RNG from your EotGs in order to have more board control from your Slann through Great Remember. Essentially the question is: do you get more benefit from having an increased chance for your EotGs to summon, or do you benefit more from 3 additional Celestial Conjuration Points and greater board control.

    Best of luck in your tournament.
     
    Seraphage likes this.
  3. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    Thanks! Will consider it. Although the teleport with the nerf doenst really feel like board positioning due to the 9” away rule. With 1/3 chance of going nowhere. That why I wanted to be able to split the army up in 3 mini armies which can stand their own.

    Razordons used to be my favorite unit in aos 1. Teleporting them behind enemy lines 5/6 off the time. Where kroxigors really go well with skinks, using them as a shield with their 2inch range. The won me a tournament last year with the mechanic.
    Hard choices tho. Everything we have I like. Thats what I love now about summoning. It gives us so much counterplays and adaptation. Also a slight plus for the kroxigors I guess. If the enemy has a horde. I have a anti horde unit on the table t1. Cant really think off a moment where I need razordons. Except for in aos1 where I deepstriked them to snipe out heroes.
    But due to 1/3 fail and Los. Just doesnt feel stable. Great rememberer helps tho. But vast intelect is just to good on the EOTH. You have a 98% chance to either do d6 damage (or d6+1) or summon. Chance off a unusefull option is nihil with the slan nearby. Just make sure it is always setup at 25” from an enemy.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  4. LizardWizard
    Kroxigor

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    All fair points.

    I too love our whole line of models. It is wonderful being able to play with the entire collection after the advent of the new summoning mechanics.

    In some ways I think that Great Remember is better now that it received its changes. If you fail the first time you can just try again, which also increased the chances of finding that 5/6.
     
  5. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    But can you do it on the same unit twice? Rules wise you should. But dont want to be that guy. Hopefully there will be an faq or something. Had the same hassle with teleporting out of combat. Opponent and judge said it was a retreat. Good thing I had an FAQ on it
     
  6. Nart
    Cold One

    Nart Active Member

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    I was an adept of RAI myself, until GW FAQ on 40k's plasma weapons in 8ed. Since than I only RAW, because you never truly know GW's intentions. The real question in using Great Remeberer twice on the same unit is if the second effect fully overrides the first. So what would happen if you roll 1 the first time and 5 the secon time. Can you teleport and move or just teleport?
     
  7. PJetski
    Saurus

    PJetski Member

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    I'm not a fan of 2x Bastiladon, I prefer running Stegadon + Bastiladon. Stegadons do way more damage, and the ability to move a SKINK unit D6" in the hero phase is really powerful.
    Personally I like using 3x5 Knights for my battleline, and I don't think Guard are worth running at all (too few wounds for that many points). Knights are great because they are fast (14" flying move is no joke) and they can actually do some decent damage with 4 attacks per model.
     
  8. LizardWizard
    Kroxigor

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    There is no indication you can not LoSaT and the same unit twice. If you roll a 1-2 the first time, but then a 3-6 the second time you can definitely teleport it. It might still have the debuff from the first roll of 1-2 though. In most cases the most recent statis effect over rides any previous contradictory effects. I would have to ask a judge. My inclination is that it would over ride it though.
     
  9. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    I do like the Skink alpha, but feel for tactic purposes 2x basti is the best for shooting deathstar. Adding a stegadon could help the mobility. But the points are needed elsewhere.

    As for the Guards. I do feel it is 40 skinks vs 15 guards.

    So lets just make the comparison:

    Mobility:
    Skinks win by a landslide. Fast en slippery. And are able to do damage when teleported, but cant move.

    Damage output:
    Skinks do an average of 6,6 wounds at full strenght. With a massive decrease with 11 casualties (aprox 13,2 wound rolls) to only 3,6. This per turn, only in the combat phase.

    Where guards you can get 10 in range doing 21 attacks dealing 6,2 wounds (7 with bites) per combat phase, without the Warden buff. Even after losing 5 models (15 woundsrolls on a 3+) it doesnt lose dmg output.

    On taking wounds:
    40 skinks at 6+ you need 48 wound rolls to cleare the unit in one go. But for example having to take an average 12 wound rolls, you would lose 10 models, +d6 from battleschok, 25-33% off the unit.

    15 Guards on a 3+ need 45 wound rolls to get cleared in one go. With the given 12 wound rolls, you would also lose 26%. But without losing dmg output.

    On mortal wounds tho, guards are highly outfavored. Although, I dont see much players dumping their mortal wounds on skinks, and they do on guards. I actually prefer that, so the mortal wounds dont go to my key units: slann, astrolith and EotG. So that is a plus for my playstyle.

    Conclusion, skinks for mobility, guards for damage output. Guards can be used to take the mortal wounds hits.
     
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  10. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I think that for lists containing Saurus Guard the "Summon Starlight" spell of the Starpriest is basically mandatory. There are quite some units out there who cause mortal wounds on a 6+ hit roll, and you can completely remove that mortal wound potential with the spell.

    So IMO when using Saurus Guard you should either bring a Starpriest or give the Slann the command trait to cast it.
     
  11. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    True, thats also the tactic for my slan.
    First turn summon Warden. Second turn buff the with Starlight and/or Mystic shield depending on the situation.
    Vast intellict is just too good to pass up on.
     
  12. PJetski
    Saurus

    PJetski Member

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    It's very good but I wouldn't go that far.
    Starpriests are only 80pt and can act as a Vassal for the Slann to channel spells, giving you more flexibility in your positioning. I find it very easy to slot in a Starpriest to any Seraphon list. Having a second wizard is also important if you have endless spells - you can cast Cogs with a Starpriest and then turn 4 spells into celestial conjuring right away.

    Starseers are way overcosted at 200pt (especially after the errata) so the real reason to use Vast Intellect is to get access to Curse of Fates. COF is very strong, but it has a significant opportunity cost if you play with Realm Spells. Is COF worth losing a second teleport or a rerolled spell + rerolled unbind every turn?

    In my experience... no. I only ever use it on the EOTG, but Im fine with either 6-9 or 14+ result and COF isnt necessary to make that more reliable. I prefer more reliably casting key spells or reliably teleporting key units.
     
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  13. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    Fair point tho. It comes down to playstyle I guess. I really prefer COF on the engine because I really want to summon some T1 Ripper to be able to place the toad.

    Come to think of it. For artifacts I’ll use Ignax scales on the slann. With cogs and balewind he should be pretty sturdy. For the engine incandescent retricses. If you can use realm artifacts and faction artifacts at the same time. Does somebody know?

    The EotG being an key unit aswell should fare good with Incandescent Retrices with CoF. Or just CoF on high damage attacks. Since it’s per phase
     
  14. LizardWizard
    Kroxigor

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    You can. I don't have the Malign Sorcery book in front of me to quote, but you definitely can mix them.
     
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  15. PJetski
    Saurus

    PJetski Member

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    There are lots of great defensive artifacts for both the Slann and EOTG:
    • Incandescent Retrices - Very good with Curse of Fates
    • Ignax's Scales - A meta pick, but rarely a bad choice
    • Ethereal Amulet - Especially strong with rerollable saves from Thunderquake. Will become more important with Bullgors in the meta.
    • Doppelganger Cloak - My current favourite, when used properly this makes the EOTG act as a huge wall against many aggressive armies, stops all hero phase combat from armies like Khorne & DOK, and completely shuts down aggressive charging armies like Idoneth and the Bloodthirster bomb.
    • Gryph-Feather Charm - Stack it with Starlight to be at -2 hit, and with Look Out Sir -3 hit against shooting. Prevents hit6+ effects from both melee and ranged units.
     
    Aginor likes this.
  16. IggyStarhost
    Temple Guard

    IggyStarhost Active Member

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    Thanks alot! Why will Ethereal amulet become more important with bullgors?
     
  17. PJetski
    Saurus

    PJetski Member

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    Bullgor Greataxe is Rend-2/3 damage, and they can ambush into play with lots of charge bonuses. Having another unit that ignores Rend (alongside the Bastiladon) to cover a flank will be very useful.
     
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