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AoS 2K Thunderquake

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Chipotle, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    My fellow cold-bloods,

    I recently played a 2k-game against a hard-hitting Stormcast Eternals list with Stardrake, Celestant Prime and 10 Protectors with the following list:

    Slann Starmaster (Skink spells, Incandescent Rectrices)
    Thunderquake Starhost:
    -Engine of the Gods (Prism of Amyntok)
    -Salamander + Handlers
    -Bastiladon (Solar)
    -Bastiladon (Solar)
    Skinks (x40, Boltsplitters + Shields)
    Skinks (x40, Boltsplitters + Shields)
    Skinks (x10, Boltsplitters + Shields)
    Summoning Reserve (240 points)

    I was expecting to get creamed but the list fared surprisingly well. In fact, if I hadn't made some of the mistakes I made, I could have won easily. It got me thinking on how I can improve this list.
    The strengths and the weaknesses of the list were, as I saw them, as follows:

    Strengths
    +Tactical flexibility. Between the different bonuses from the Slann, Thunderquake Host, the Engine of the Gods and 240 points for summoning the list is well equipped to handle a variety of threats.
    +Mobility. Skinks are terribly fast. Together with the teleportation allegiance ability they become dangerously mobile and allow excellent board control. 40 of them for just 200 points is just icing on the cake.
    +Durability. Bastiladons, the Engine and the Slann are incredibly durable when standing together. Multiple effects from the Thunderquake Starhost ability to heal D3 when next to a Slann and the Engine's heal effect when triggered make sure the behemoths are topped up almost always.

    Weaknesses
    -Harmony. The salamander from the starhost felt like it was 80 points of out-of-place dead weight on top of the 170 pts tax for the starhost itself. Maybe I should expand by adding more or consider losing the starhost altogether.
    -Damage output. For all their wonderful uses, Skinks are nowhere near able to bring down enemy units. Firepower from the Bastiladons isn't reliable (2d6 shots that hit on 4s) and the mortal wounds from the Slann and the Engine are very consequential and rare. This leaves the army exposed against multiple threats. In the game the Protectors were all but dead and the Stardrake down to 4 wounds before Prime arrived so I was able to prioritise easily, this might not always be the case.
    -Target saturation (lack of). The Slann and (maybe) the Engine are exposed to ranged attacks, especially mortal wounds. A Skink screen or two successfully stave off melee attackers for long enough but ranged attacks and non-spell ranged mortal wounds are a real threat for the two characters here. The Engine can heal itself pretty fast if not killed outright but once the Slann uses his artifact, the only solution is to summon an Eternity Warden next to him.

    With these in mind I would welcome your suggestions on how this list could be improved further. I have so far considered:

    -Adding an Astrolith bearer for the Bastiladons/Slann. If I do this and get rid of the Starhost, the Bastiladons will still have rerolls to hit.
    -Ditching the starhost and the salamander pack, adding all points saved to the summoning reserve.
    -Decreasing the second 40x Skinks to 10 models and adding the points saved to the summoning reserve for more flexibility.
    -Adding a Skink Starseer for rerolls for the Engine, spells or rolls of 1 on the allegiance ability.
    -Change Slann command trait to the one that allows using the allegiance ability twice. Skink spells were not as useful as I thought they would be, besides I can always summon a Skink hero to cast them if they are really needed. Two teleports sounds godly.

    What would you do?
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
    Seraphage likes this.
  2. Furnus
    Skink

    Furnus New Member

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    Two questions to Thunderquake outta curiousity:

    1) Can the units (bastis for example) also reroll failed hit rolls in the shooting fase if they, in the previous combat fase, were declared swift?

    2) Also, can you declare swift or savage in your oponent's combat fase?
     
  3. Paul Beenis
    Skink

    Paul Beenis Member

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    1- I believe this is correct

    2- If this is true that's awesome! It does say "each combat phase" and doesn't clarify that it's yours
     
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  4. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    Just checked the battletome, yes you can. It specifically says the start of each combat phase and that includes your opponent's.

    Whatever buff you receive from being either swift or savage, you retain them until the next combat phase begins or the combat ends.
     
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  5. Furnus
    Skink

    Furnus New Member

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    Wow, that's amazingly good.

    Thanks for the info fellas.
     
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  6. Seraphage
    Troglodon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Excellent insight. I've yet to try a thunderbeast but your analysis is trully wonderful, thank you and please keep sharing your thoughts after future reports !

    Some thoughts of mine :
    1. The handler pack definitely seems a bit outta place. I feel the same when trying to build on a thunderquake

    2. The dependency on 1 unit - EotG - for the bonuses also is a problem for me because we have 2 choices : Be predictable and move the pack altogether or don't really take advantage of its bonuses and pay the cost for less goods. And of course the biggest one : Once it's down, there goes our batallion points. And EotG always feels kinda defenseless with all the harassing of mortal wounds and high rend attacks going on.

    3. I would keep the 2nd x40 skink unit for a couple of battles more, as you only save 140p and this - while not that dangerous - brings a big confusion all around the map with its mobility and harassing.

    4. The skink spells are way too important. Having starlight on a key target at the proper turn changed the game to my favor many times. In your list however, you would only really benefit on using it at the EotG which again doesn't make it worth. I totally agree you should go for the 2 teleports - or something more valuable.

    Looking forward on your thoughts of the battles to come !
     
  7. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    I haven't managed to play a game with the revised list yet.
    But I thought of making an alternative list that contains the following:

    Leaders
    Lord Kroak - 450pts
    Engine of the Gods - 220pts

    Battleline

    40x Skinks - 200pts
    10x Skinks - 60pts
    10x Skinks - 60pts

    Artillery

    Salamander - 40pts

    Behemoth

    Bastiladon - 280pts
    Bastiladon - 280pts

    Other

    Skink Handlers - 40pts

    Warscroll Battalion

    Thunderquake Starhost - 170pts

    Reinforcement Points: 200

    Kroak's spells and staying power should significantly increase my damage output and he's still a Slann so the bonus for the Engine still applies.
    I can use the rerolls from his command ability to reroll "battleshock" tests for him.
    Has anyone tried Kroak since GHB2017 came out? Does the reduction in points and the new abilities to cast spells with increased range and universal unbinding justify fielding him now?
     
  8. Aginor
    Skink Chief

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    To me the EotG is now worth it in the combo witth Kroak or a Slann, in case of the Slann choose Skink spells trait to get the Curse of Fate. That should make it much more reliable.

    About Kroak:
    He is worth it now I'd say.
     
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  9. Meatgrinder
    Skink

    Meatgrinder Member

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    My knee-jerk reaction is still to avoid Kroak unless you build a list around him, without tthe support of a vortex and astrolith. I'd be interested to hear how well he does on his own vs just taking a regular slann.
     
  10. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    I'll keep this thread on how he fares as soon as I play some games.
     
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  11. Aginor
    Skink Chief

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    To be honest the main reason why I say he is viable is that he was pretty powerful already while he was immensely overcosted (our only lists that went into torunament top 10 were Kroak lists) and he got 90 points cheaper while keeping all of his abilities and even gaining a new one.

    So how he plays now? better I assume, but I don't know. Looking forward to experiences! :)
     
  12. skipperyoss
    Saurus

    skipperyoss Active Member

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    Sub the salamanders for Kroxigors, they can beat anything in the game to death fairly easily. If you make them swift they get to reroll that awful 4+, but if you make them savage rerollling to wounds might give them more 6's on the bites. Kroxigor actually deal a metric shit ton of damage, and while their hammers don't have rend a Star drake is a 3+ and stormcast don't have access to magic (yet). Between the Kroxigor in melee and the bastiladons at range the Celestant Prime/Star Drake should die relatively fast. You have the points for an Astrolith banner bearer to give you rerolls to hit and then just going savage for the rest of the game.

    For more punch consider dropping skinks, I see a lot of people loving skinks and I think it's a holdover from Fantasy where they could blowpipe anything in the game to death. When I run my Thunderquake, if I don't want to turtle I run the Troglodon instead of the EOTG. It gets a lot of hate but with the new monster rules (lets be fair you should be using these, they finally make monsters worthwhile that aren't bastiladons) it plays really well, healing 2 wounds in the heroe phase or D3+1.
     
  13. Seraphage
    Troglodon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    What new monster rules ? Any link ? Not in the GH2 right ?
     
  14. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    So, I tested the Kroak version against a Khornate army today on the Knife to the Heart battleplan from GHB 2017 today.
    I managed to land a minor victory!

    IIRC, his list had:
    30x Bloodletters
    30x Bloodletters
    Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster
    10x Skullreapers
    Bloodstoker
    Gore Pilgirms Battalion:
    2x Slaughterpriests
    Bloodsecrator
    10x Bloodreavers
    5x Blood Warriors

    I did some tactical mistakes that almost cost me the game but when all the dust settled he had his Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers camping the objective in his deployment zone and I had Kroak and one Bastiladon remaining at mine with the points difference bringing me a minor victory. It was pretty brutal. I deployed the Engine of the Gods, Kroak and two Bastiladons at my objective with the 2 units of 10 Skinks providing screen. I deployed the salamander pack and the 40 Skinks to the left flank. I let him have the first turn.

    Turn 1
    40x Skinks and Salamander pack got obliterated by a fully buffed 30 strong Bloodletters unit. This was my biggest mistake. I deployed too close and paid for it dearly when I got charged. I would have been way better off if I used the other 40 as a second screen for the big uglies. However, he returned the favour when he left his Bloodthirster within range of my Bastiladons and he was erased off the map thanks to 3 damage per wound against Chaos Daemons. Kroak started hurling mortal wounds all around with the Comet's Call and I targeted his characters to deny him his buffs. Rest of my shooting thinned the Bloodletters.

    Turn 2
    I got double turn and it paid off quite nicely. Fire from the Skink screen, the Engine and the Bastiladons reduced his Bloodletters significantly. I managed to score some more mortals on the characters. However, he auto-unbinded my attempt summon more Skinks which was critically important. He then charged my screens in his turn and killed a bunch of Skinks. Another mistake he did was to deploy his Skullreapers close to his objective for the fear of my teleport ability. He realised this mistake and started brining them forwards.

    Turn 3
    He got the double turn this time and it was a bloodbath. I lost most of my screen and high rolls on his charge attempts brought what remained of his Bloodletters and his Skullreapers into combat with my monsters. The Bastiladons shrugged off as much as they could but were left with 1-2 wounds each. In my turn I killed one Slaughterpriest and the Secrator with Kroak but couldn't cast Celestial Deliverance. He used the pile-in and attack ability with his massive number of blood tithes too! I did summon 10 Skinks this time but they didn't last very long.

    Turn 4 I couldn't get a double turn and lost the Engine and then got him back using the Incandescent Rectrices artifact (life-saver). One Bastiladon fell too. In my turn, I unleashed hell with whatever I still had standing and destroyed the remaining Skullreapers, Bloodletters and characters. We decided to end the game then since I was only left with Kroak and a Bastiladon with one wound remaining. I couldn't capture his objective and he couldn't come to mine in time so we decided it was a minor win for me.

    I think the list played very well. I should learn to deploy more effectively and try to summon earlier for safety.
    I think I need to test this list against a Sylvaneth list and at least once against a Tzeentch list and make any changes after those games. But I definitely see Kroak working here. The Salamander is still very much out of place and I am actually considering Kroxigors now. That would reduce my summoning reserve to 120 points, however, and that would mean I can practically only summon Skinks for reinforcements. Not sure about that.

    I'll keep this thread posted!
     
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  15. Seraphage
    Troglodon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Really interesting report thank you very much, can't wait for more !
     
  16. skipperyoss
    Saurus

    skipperyoss Active Member

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    It's on the Warhammer community site, playing blood bowl atm so I'll try to get it to you soon
     
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  17. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    Yeah they're there but they are also optional so you'd have to agree with your opponent beforehand.
     
  18. Tizianolol
    Cold One

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    You need a slann for your teleport trait? Or you can teleport without it?:)
     
  19. Chipotle
    Skink

    Chipotle New Member

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    No need for a Slann :)
     
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  20. skipperyoss
    Saurus

    skipperyoss Active Member

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    I imagine most people won't be pee pee poo poo people about it considering it buffs their monsters too, and as echoed earlier most monsters in this game blow chunks.

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/08/aos-monster-week-day-5-sep-8gw-homepage-post-4/
     

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