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40K - Should I .... or not? Where to start?

Discussion in 'General Hobby/Tabletop Chat' started by Aginor, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. Captaniser
    Stegadon

    Captaniser Well-Known Member

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    Well, look at psychic power users this way.

    Regular Human: Volatile Tomahawk missile.

    Elder: Nuke, without a disarming mechanism.

    Ork: Hydrogen bomb with a broken timer.
     
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  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    It was definitely quite powerful. One of the most defensively sound tanks in the game. It also allowed you to teleport your troops, and when doing so, you'd get a second "We'll be back" roll, meaning you had a second 50% chance of bringing your fallen troops back from the dead.
     
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  3. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skink Chief

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Tyranid Hive Tyrant: The meteorite that supposedly destroyed the dinosaurs.

    Wow - it was better than it is now then. It can still teleport but doesn't give you a second Reanimation Protocols roll. However, there is the Portal of Exile that can suck enemies that attempt to assault it into the portal forever!
     
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  4. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    OK, I'm tying to enter more deeply into 40k universe, however, a thing bothers me...

    I've always heard that Space Marines are GW's favorites, that they receive the top treatment, that with each edition they never get the short and of the stick, and so on.

    Now, I cannot speak for old editions but... really?

    I don't know if it's an effect of the new shiny primary marines, or the Adeptus Custodes, but frankly i don't see how the new codex for Astartes makes them "over the top".


    I look at Deathguards and all I see are things with solid saves and / or Invulnerable saves, PLUS Feel No Pain at 5+... and don't even talk about Daemons that have 8 wounds, so I cannot shoot directly at them, that arrive easily in CC (because of Bloatdrones, a "chaff" stronger than an elite) and that have invulnerable save and FNP 4+.
    Units may cost a little more than SM, but they take far more abilities to the battlefield.

    I look at the new Craftworlds, and I see the Fire Prysm, with the prysm cannon that comes for free, shoot at 60" (twice) at STR 12 and AP5 for d6 dam?!?


    Space Marines are highly customizable, but they seem a vanilla army... if you don't want to play things as Ultramarines (possibly with Guilliman).
    All in all, SM seem "Jack of all trades, master of none". I am obtaining some good result with them, but you need to work hard around their lists and by any mean I don't see their "brokenness" (I will soon post my current list/s).


    Is there something I am missing?
     
  5. Ritual
    Skar-Veteran

    Ritual Well-Known Member

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    People say Space Marines are OP basically because of Guilliman at the moment. He's an overpowered/underpriced unit that provides way too many buffs. When you stack those buffs with other units bringing buffs you get a pretty potent spanking platform.

    However, you are right. The lists do need a lot of work to get there, most of them need Goldyman... They do have a unit for every situation though, so can get expensive/annoying if you want to change tactics completely or tackle a different type of enemy. They are all rounders and your list generally needs to play to that...
     
  6. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    As I understood it:
    The focus on Space Marines not necessarily means they are stronger than other armies, just that they get more releases, more focus on the fluff, are on all promotional material, and have more units to choose from so they are more versatile. They also get their books earlier than other etc.
    Just like it is with SCE in AoS. They are always among the strongest but not necessarily the strongest, but they seem to get the preferred treatment in all things.
     
  7. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but "to seem to get" is different than "to get".
    Leaving aside Guilliman (Seriously, is GW tailoring the 40k players toward Ultramarines?), the other chapters received the new astartes codex, but imo are falling behind the armies that are getting new material.
    Which is not a bad thing, but at least it should be acknowledged.

    It is true however, as @Ritual said, that you can change tactics completely with SM, a thing that other armies cannot do so easily... I'm thinking to Dark Eldars, which actually have a uberstrong list, but outside of that one are kinda meh (at least, 'til we'll see the new arlequins. Future is unclear)
     
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  8. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skink Chief

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Space Marines are an incredibly adaptable army because they have been given the most models by GW...

    Dark Eldar have a strong list only on the attack. The trick is to hit them back whenever they hit you so that they die like flies. I played with my Tyranids against my dad's Dark Eldar and although most people say Tyranids always get smashed by DE, that isn't true if you use the right units for the right job. Every time his Kabalites riddles a Carnifex with splinter fire or a unit of Wyches massacres a unit of Hormagaunts in melee, that unit of Kabalites gets eaten by a Hive Tyrant and his Tyrant Guard and the Wyches get blasted apart by a Heavy Venom Cannon. Dark Eldar units are very specialised, like their Craftworld cousins, so you need to hit each unit in a place where it is rubbish, and you can keep the game in the balance. Take Kabalites - they have fearsome shooting but are bad in close combat, while Wyches are fearsome in melee but die very easily even to Tyranid shooting - Termagants are not up to the job here because they have short-ranged weapons but Warriors, Carnifexes with ranged weapons, Tyrannofexes and Exocrines are all very useful against Wyches. Their vehicles are also very lightly armoured, so a Tyrannofex with a Rupture cannon can reliably take one out every turn.

    All armies do have a weakness in 40K, although I still play 6th Ed so my view may be a bit outdated. Space Marines' main weakness I believe is that they can be outclassed by units that are better at their chosen field than they are, see @Killer Angel 's "Jack of all Trades" anecdote. For instance, a unit of Terminators can be butchered by a Hive Tyrant if you use the proper AP 2 Bonesword rules because the Tyrant is much faster, although if any survive they can hammer the Tyrant afterwards (but then Tyranids don't fight fairly anyway...). However, where SM do well is that they are reliable - they are decent in everything and can allow players to make mistakes and recover from them. That's probably why GW market them as the beginner's army.
     
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  9. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    EDIT @Killer Angel
    Well, I write "seem to get" because I don't know 40K that well. ALL 40K players I know say this with certainty in their voices.
     
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  10. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    mmm...
    Let's see if I can sum it up, and if it makes sense.

    Other armies can have models or units that (individually) are stronger than SM counterparts
    Other armies outclass SM when it comes to specialized lists
    Other armies can field strong lists more easily than SM

    However

    SM are always the first in line to receive codexes and new stuff
    SM always receive new models and don't have to wait
    SM come with an average quality that's good, so they can be easily played by beginners, giving immediately some nice result
    SM offer a great variety of models and can cover a lot of different playstyles, so they are more appealing if you like to try different approaches within the same army.
     
  11. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    That matches what I have heard about them pretty well.
     
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  12. Ritual
    Skar-Veteran

    Ritual Well-Known Member

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    Seems pretty accurate, yup.
     
  13. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Another 40k question:
    It seems 40k vehicles don't have bases. Does that mean distances and line of sight are measured like in AoS from any part of the model? Including antennas and the like?
     
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  14. Ritual
    Skar-Veteran

    Ritual Well-Known Member

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    No, from the closest point of the model... I believe there was an FAQ that said the models hull, but could be wrong.
     
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  15. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    mkay, thx!
    Otherwise anyone would drive around with tanks carrying antennas like in real life I guess:
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Captaniser
    Stegadon

    Captaniser Well-Known Member

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    In older editions range was measured from the weapon, not the model.
     
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  17. Ritual
    Skar-Veteran

    Ritual Well-Known Member

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    Well now a model can shoot behind it that doesn't make sense anymore... Welcome to the future...
     
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  18. Warden
    Skink Priest

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    I saw an ork conversion (must have been an older edition) where the barrel of the weapon was about double the length of the vehicle :blackeye:

    Rule shennanigans!
     
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  19. Warden
    Skink Priest

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Now that Adeptus Custodes are their own army, I wonder if we shall see more Emperor conversions? I saw this one the other day on spikey bits.

    Sven-Winterwind.jpg

    Would make a glorious terrain piece.
     
  20. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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