Not aiming for the right body part and totally losing your cool because of a loss are not the same level of mistake. Spoiler: Spoilers for Thor 1, 2, and 3 After having "witnessed" Loki's "death" four or five times, and losing other loved ones for realsies Thor learned to power through loss. Spoiler: Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2 spoilers After losing his mom, his biological dad, his surrogate dad and a life time living as a dangerous mercenary, Peter Quinn should have better been able to compartmentalize loss and focus on his job.
Joe Russo, the co-director of the movie, would disagree... Full article: https://www.hindustantimes.com/holl...finger-snap/story-ElPM0jYrujrGl6P3xxjisK.html With that in mind, also consider that Peter Quill's reaction was in the heat of the moment, he had just found out what Thanos had done to Gamora. Thor had the entire movie to come to grips with the slaying of his brother.
A case can be made that LOTS of Avengers did not act as intelligently as they could. I'm okay putting Starlord and Thor on the same page. Also, lots of characters refused to sacrifice one person to save the world. They worked really really hard to try to keep Visionary alive and he still died along with three and half billion people and a trillions of sapient aliens. Oops. World War II was filled with emotionally difficult choices for the greater good. Tony Stark personalizes the greater good. In this case Iron Man and Captain America should have both been on board to sacrifice Visionary or any other single person to save 3.5 billion. Iron Man and Captain America are the two leaders, or should be. If they both said the same thing, every other hero would probably follow accept Starlord who is inherently selfish and Captain Marvel who would never ever submit to a patriarchal authority figure.
I checked out reviews of Captain Marvel, even the most positive reviews were not very appealing so I sat out. The MCU built up enough good will with me that I plan to watch End Game without checking even a light spoiler review, but that's where I end it. Since Brie Larson is the new face of the MCU post Thanos I believe this truly will be the MCU's End Game. Which is fine because DC finally figured out how to make good movies consistently. The timing couldn't be better. I eagerly await the next Wonder Woman movie.
While this line of thinking is logically correct, it is much tougher when considered from the character's point of view. I remember when you created a thread a while back asking if people would rather save the person they love the most or 10 random people, most people went with the emotional choice over the logical/mathematical one. Even when the number was increased to 100 or a 1000 or 10,000 random people, most people chose the same way. Admittedly here we're talking of a lot more people, but the principle is the same. Imagine having to choose between 1000 people of your choosing versus the rest of the human population. 1000 people that mean the most to you compared with 7 billion strangers. The logical-mathematical answer is simple and clear, but the emotive one is not (for most people).
It was the previous movie that made me think about that. I don't know if I was actually there if I would sacrifice a loved one for ten strangers but I certainly would for a 100 strangers. I would feel like a horrible person if I didn't do that. The hundred deaths would haunt me forever. I wondered where other people would draw the line and found that for most people the answer for how many strangers they would sacrifice is practically infinite. It made me feel like a cold hearted freak that I stood out so much but here is how I came to that the idea that I would sacrifice a loved one to save 100 strangers. It would really hurt for me to lose a loved one. I've lost loved ones before and I probably will again but I'm not special. If I died tommorow my mom would be very sad. My aunt and cousins and friends would be sad. Some of my virtual friends on Lustria-Online would be sad. Everyone is hurt by loss and everyone has people they care about. Why spare my family and friends being sad about a loss when everyone has loved ones. My extended family is pretty small, we don't produce a lot of kids. If one of my loved ones died, five or six people would be very sad. A dozen to two dozen people would be saddened to a lesser extended. Multiple that by a hundred, who I am to put that much pain on thousands of people to spare my family. That's tribalism at it's worst. Some people said they would basically save their loved ones against a virtually infinite number of strangers. Just for the sake of argument, here is what "infinity" looks like. Me and the twenty people I love most get to live long lives with plenty of food and medicine in a bunker somewhere but every other human dies. Twenty people cannot produce enough genetic diversity to repopulate the human race I have driven humanity extinct to save my loved ones. I bet they are going to have survivors guilt. I bet they are going to be unhappy humanity is doomed, and I bet they are going to blame me for selfishily choosing to spare myself personal pain in such a way. Especially since the twenty people I love most will have probably lost most of the twenty people they loved most. The next extreme is we leave humanity with about a hundred thousands people. That's enough for the human race to rebound. Humanity rebounded from less than that in the past. So we spare those I love most, and the people they love most. We still aren't close to a hundred thousand, so I will next start inviting Lustria-Online members onto my proverbial arc with their loved on until we reach a hundred thousand. The survivors are still going to have survivor's guilt. They are still going to be people who lost loved ones and people are still going to blame me. Maybe my morality is too cold and alien. Individual versus the many is a big thing on Star Trek. It's very common in Star Trek that the Enterprise, Voyager, or whatever the ship happens to be will risk the safety of everyone on the ship to save one or two lost crew members. That's fine. The ship is like a family and family shouldn't leave family behind but they will still leave people behind to save strangers when the numbers are really big. Not one character in Infinity War was utilitarian enough to try to defend 4 billion people it was barely discussed. At the very least, they should have a heated argument with the utilitarians being outvoted and relucantly conceding. Black Panther is a head of state. I want heads of state to think big picture. Visionary is a logical machine. Captain America is a hardened soldier. Starlord was raised by pirates but everyone was willing to hang humanity out to dry for their love interest or their bestie. I'm not saying the Marvel team should have acted differently (it'd be a lousy movie if everyone behaved like I would), but they should have at the very least the characters should have doubted what they were doing. Everyone was 100% postive that they were acting heroically without inner turmoil, doubt or pain. It's okay for Captain Marvel to have no weaknesses, doubt, or pain but I'm used to the other characters being actually human (even when they are a tree, robot, Asgardian, or trash panda). I guess that's all I wanted was a five to ten minute scene where they at least debated the pros and cons of a utilitarian versus an emotional approach. "My brain says we should sacrifice visionary, but my heart doesn't want to." "We got this far following our hearts, lets not stop now." I have a feeling Dr. Strange might have thought like I did. That's why the "one solution" involved him sacrificing himself and being okay with it. A precogniscient he saw all the pain the characters would endure and saw that it was necessary. And yes, time travel will fix everything or MOST everything. My prediction is that time travel will reverse Thanos' finger snap (because Marvel is very good at undoing death) but two or three beloved characters will die for realsies. Perhaps I shouldn't expect a superhero movie to get into ethical debates but superhero movies cover difficult philosphical issues all the time. Captain America: Civil War actually got fairly deep into philosophy and ethics and that didn't turn off fans. Civil War was about weighing freedom against responsibility. That may be the most important ethnical quandrary of modern times. We the movie going public are not grunting trogladytes, we can handle difficult stuff. Why drop the ball with Infinity War? On a related topic, you mentioned Starlord wasn't chosen much. I noticed Bucky wasn't chosen at all. Does anyone like Bucky? In my opinion, the Marvel handlers did not spend enough screen time developing the bond between Bucky and Steve Rogers. I guess I'm a cold hearted sociopath that would sacrifice loved ones for the greater good but Bucky really gave Captain America a lot of grief. I do value loyalty greatly. Were I in Captain America's best shoes, and my best friend was brainwashed into being a cyborg killing machine, I would not split up the rest of my friends fighting like that. I would negotiate and let them put Bucky in prison, but you know a nice prison with lots of visiting hours and amenities, a place where he can get rehab for all his brainwashing and whatnot.
Great analysis, @Scalenex yeah, the main point is that they all are heroes and leaders, the kind of people that take hard decisions for the Greater good of the ones that relies on them. The debate between the 2 choices could have been developed in more depth, instead of focusing on combats for a great portion of the movie.
We all should feel this way. It’s logical and it makes sense. We would probably end up regretting the other. However, when it comes down to the heat of the moment, we human beings are emotional creatures. A lot of people who think they would choose the strangers might well end up choosing their family instead. I think they probably could’ve had a five minute debate on it, but anything longer than that would have halted the lace of the film. As much as it would make sense in the real world, most fans of these films aren’t here for the philosophical side of superheroes. They’ll accept a bit if it furthers the story, but a good proportion are here for the fights - if they don’t have enough, Marvel run the risk of the film suffering in the box office somewhat. Let’s face it, we haven’t waited ten years for a film about a bunch of superheroes sitting in a room and discussing morality! Also, my Nerd OCD requires me to tell you it’s Vision, not Visionary. I think a lot of our opinions are based on more recent films. It’s been a while since Civil War when Bucky was quite an interesting character. I suspect a fair few of us are basing our opinions on him on Infinity War, when he was largely uninteresting. Also, what’s a guy with a special arm got against literal gods in the fight against Thanos!?
I think your stance is different from that of most people, but there is nothing wrong with that. Admittedly your feelings on the subject are more selfless than mine. I would save my loved ones without a second thought. The Infinity War scenario is different however, because saving a single loved one puts many more loved ones at risk. That is a much harder decision. I think the other thing we need to consider is that they feel as though they can still win the day without sacrificing Vision. Hence they have their scheme to separate him from the stone. I think sacrificing him is a backup plan that they all have in their minds but no one wants to speak of it. When push came to shove though, Scarlet Witch did make the logical choice and Vision was sacrificed. They just didn't predict Thanos' reversal of time. So while they didn't have a lengthy discussion on the pros/cons of a utilitarian vs emotional approach, they did explore the topic through action.
+1 That's how I feel as well. Fingers crossed that she gets hit by a meteor (one that is small enough to take her out but with no collateral damage).
I like how the two people complaining about her here are the two people who have explicitly stated that they have not seen the film! You know most of the people who actually did (myself included) actually thought it was quite good. Besides, I very much doubt she’s going to be the new face of the MCU. Chances are if they do kill off the big three, they’ll indroduce some of the new versions of the characters (Rhodes or Ironheart for Iron Man, Wilson or Barnes for Cap, Jane Foster or equivalent for Thor, although I personally get the feeling he’ll be least likely to leave), many of which are from recent critically acclaimed comic books. If they do do that, the MCU will be in safe hands. However, I do agree that to make Captain Marvel the face of the MCU would be financial suicide. There are too many fans like you guys who hate the idea of her enough that if they did do that they would face major boycotting in the future, regardless of how good the films are. From a financial perspective, it would not be a good idea.
Most people that saw the film rated it anywhere from poor to mediocre. The reviews of the film are out there. Even people that "liked" it don't typically rate it as great. https://screenrant.com/captain-marvel-mcu-leader-kevin-feige/ Will it turn out that way? Who knows. But it is not a good sign when the President of Marvel Studios says that is the plan.
Seen it a couple of minutes ago. Oh boy, what a blast. Won't spoiler anything so feel free to ask questions per private messenger. In defense of Peter Quill / Starlord. It was not his fault, Strange did not intervene because he knew that if he would have, everything would have gpne to s**t. Imagine they would have obtained the gauntlet and then Thanos overpowered them, killed everyone and proceeded his plans.. Yeah.. awesome..
Oh no sorry fir the misunderstanding, that was not my opinion on the film but an ironic remark on the idea to alter the battlwle on Titan. I liked the film very much, it was overwhelming, huge, had very good scenes and elements but also bad ones. Overall i would rate it a tad bit "worse" than Infinity War. But honestly, it wraps up 11 years of Film and in the future i will see those two films as one.
I won't spoil anything but oh boy, if you like the characters and the marvel movies in general, you'll be in for a real treat when watching Endgame. I'm probably a bit of a fanboy, so take it with a grain of salt, but atm. this movie is my favorite of all time.