Someone had told me that blowpipes do not suffer from long range penalties to ballistics skill; true or no true? Also, when standing and shooting as a charge reaction, do you receive -2 to your BS if the target is starting its charge from beyond your half range point?
There is no distance penalty for standing and shooting, you are assumed to fire when they reach close range. Remember if the distance is less than half their charge move (ie. normal movement) then you cannot stand and shoot. Blowpipes do suffer long range, it is javelins that do not.
yes, they have a long range penalty, and yes, when standing and shooting this modifier still applies. yes, this means that when standing and shooting AND repeating you get a -3 modifier if they started outside 6 inches. **I realise this is in fact in disagreement with strewart's post. Read the standing and shooting rules in the rulebook. Please post the correct answer in regards to this question here. Im fairly sure that it says stand and shooting shots are fired 'once the target comes into range' (hence 12", hence long range), but I can be wrong.** PLEASE NOTE, 'to hit modifiers' do not effect the models base BS, but just the roll to hit on the dice rolled.
"If the chargers start their charge beyond the maximum range of the shooting unit's missile weapons, their charge is interrupted and the shots are made at the maximum range of the weapons- the unit lets loose as soon as the enemies are within range of every firing model in the unit... If the chargers are found to be too close to stand & shoot, treat the reaction as hold instead" They shoot when they can see the whites of their eyes. From what I can see, if the charging unit is already within range of the missile weapons they shoot before the charger moves at all. If that is within half range then you do not get -1 to hit, however, if the chargers started their charge at over half the missile weapon's range then the additional -1 for long range would be added. I do not know if this is in some sort of FAQ proving me wrong, but this is how I would work it out.
Eternity_Warden is right from what my reading tells me. Perhaps the interpretation is slightly different in different areas of the world, but I know for our gaming group, you're always firing form long range when you make a S&S reaction to a charging enemy who starts from more than 12" away.
Yeah I got it mixed up with another rule, there are long range penalties if you are at long range. Sorry about that.
In short, you will only NOT get long range penalties of S&S if they START their charge within 6 inches. Rare, considering you need to be outside of the charging units normal move to be able to S&S at all.
What happens when an opponent declares a charge, to which you decide to stand and shoot, and your opponent gets a failed charge because he was too far away, but the unit never comes into the range of your missile weapons? For example: a unit of DE Dark Riders wants to charge a Lizardmen Skink unit wielding javelins and shields. The Lizardmen player decides to stand and shoot. The distance between the two units is measured and appears to be 19" (Dark Riders have M9 ;-) ). A failed charge takes to 10" away from the Skinks, too far for the javelins to reach...
Well, if they're not in range then you can't shoot them. If they fail the charge and do come into range then you can shoot them, but not if they aren't in range. They have effectively stopped before they got close enough.
Another thing to remember... they will fire only when ALL firing models are in range. So if you have skirmishers arranged like this... X X X X X X X _____X _____X _____X Then the front line would fire only when the guy in back was in range, possibly meaning the ones in front could avoid the long range penalty. This is assuming you are taking a charge with the skirmishers, which probably isn't a great idea, but it could be a way to put out some surprise firepower on a stand and shoot. Also assuming your opponent is cool with this sort of formation, although I think it is legal as long as they are all 1 inch apart.
Another thing to remember... they will fire only when ALL firing models are in range. So if you have skirmishers arranged like this... X X X X X X X _____X _____X _____X Its legal, but so is taking 8 stegadons. Its pretty hi-tech, ill give the poster credit for working it out, but I would cry foul of someone did it to me, and I wouldn't do it to someone, ever.
I don't see anything wrong with deploying like that... So it gives a few models in a skirmishing unit a bit better chance standing and shooting, wow. I would call that a good formation not trying to cheat me. Most things will power straight through them anyway regardless of formation. A worse situation for skirmishers, something my brother tried to pull on me, it does say that they only need be deployed within an inch of another model in the unit, so he deployed like this: X X X X X X---------X X - - - X X X X X X Technically, every model is within 1" of another model in the unit, there is no ruling beyond that. RAW but certainly not as intended.
I see that this formation is stretching the rules wording to the limit, but what does one gain by arranging them in that way? Am I missing something obvious???
ok, so my rulebook states: "Skirmishers are deployed on the battlefield in a formation consisting of a loose group. Models in a skirmishing unit are positioned up to 1" apart." for me that is quite clear. It says "a group" so that means 1 group (and not more). since they have to be a maximum of 1" apart, there is no way there can be a gap of more than 1" anywhere in the unit. and this is definitely the spirit of the rule, so I think anyone doing anything else is actually just cheating. just my opinion.
How can you keep a maximum of 1" apart for all model? x-x-x-x-x -x-x-x-x-x x-x-x-x-x The green and red one are a lot more than 1" apart. It is literally impossible to have every model within an inch of every other model, there isn't really a wording you can use to describe it without the very slight hole. I know it says group, and I know how the rule is intended, I am certainly not arguing it is even slightly legal just saying it got sprang on me. @Eternity_Warden; not a lot I guess. The unit can cover a lot more ground so it can march block more units at a time, thats about all I can think of.
no, I disagree - I see what you are saying, but the rule doesn't say "no model may be more than 1" apart from ALL other models in the unit". In that case your example would illustrate how this can't work. The rule does say that it has to be a group. And that the models may be no more than 1" apart. This is clear for me (in the wording, not only in principle): every model has to be part of one group and no model may be more than 1" apart from any other model in that group. If you split them up they are no longer one group and therefore no longer in the same unit. I realise that we all know that this is in the spirit, I think it's just important to be able to clearly counter when someone thinks they've found a loophole in the rules... I'm picturing the discussion between you and your brother must have had... are you still friends?
Yeah the 'group' wording would have been a reasonable argument, I either didn't think of it at the time or it wasn't like that in 6th edition. Heh, we get along by hardly ever talking to each other and just leaving each other alone. He is the rules lawyer type that is extremely pedantic, he slowly read through the entire rulebook several times and came up with tonnes of stupid little loopholes, the above formation being one of the better ones. Suffice to say he doesn't play warhammer anymore and that was our last game. On the plus side, I inherited all his models for free.
My previous post was kinda bubble-wrapped. However, seeing some other replies, ill say what i feel. That formation is a clever use of game mechanics, but it is cheap, unsportsmanlike and against the spirit of the game.
Most here are in agreement if you are referring to the one Strewart posted... the "T" formation I posted doesn't strike me as particularly objectionable. The intent of the rules seems to have been that they can arrange themselves so long as you can draw a chain to every skink via 1 inch gaps. Nowhere does it say that they must be in a roughly circular blob, otherwise the concept of the "skink screen" would also be frowned upon. I agree that the formation Strewart posted is definitely cheesy, and violates the 1 inch rule (as they probably intended it). What it really accomplishes I am uncertain, but I don't care to waste effort thinking on it too much.
Hi All, The problem with the "T" formation is you have to have a larger skink unit to make it viable, otherwise its a lot of effort and messing around for another 4-5 shots... Logic of this being all the "conga skinks" will not be able to double tap without double tapping Antoher point, does the whole unit have to double tap if some do?