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8th Ed. Blowpipes or Javelins?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Snowshark, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Snowshark
    Jungle Swarm

    Snowshark New Member

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    I'm new to both the game and (of course) Lizardmen and I'm not sure if I should do my skinks with blowpipes or spears. So far as I understand it the blowpipes seem the better option but I may be missing something. How would you kit out Skinks?
     
  2. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    I'd make half of them blow pipes and half of them with javelins. (you are going to need both) ;)
     
  3. The Hunted
    Carnasaur

    The Hunted Active Member

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    I usually run 3 units of skirmishers, 2 with blowpipes and 1 with javelins.

    The unit with javelins generally stays a bit closer to my slann. For buffs, and it sometimes escorts a skink priest.

    Blowpipes are great vs large targets (scary monsters!) and it feels awesome to roll a bunch of dice to shoot stuff :)

    The Hunted
     
  4. OmegaHavoc
    Cold One

    OmegaHavoc Member

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    I'm very hard pressed to give any skink unit other than chamo sinks blowpipes. Unless you either don't move or end up within short range regular Skinks will never be able to double tap blowpipes. Large targets have lost +1 to be hit for ranged attacks so even then blowpipes do not have a benefit. Javelins are qtf so at worst they will be hitting on 5s. Javs are even good against skirmishes because they will hit on 6s. I just can't see a point to have blowpipes anymore.

    Also now that Skinks have a 6+ scaly skin save the shield from Javs gives them a 5+ save which will at least sometimes come into play.
     
  5. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    I've always been a big fan of the javelin and shield option for two reasons:

    1) Maximizing Poison Hits - As OmegaHavoc points out, the absence of sufficient BS in non-chamo skinks makes actually benefiting from poison difficult unless you are at short range (all models within 6") and the unit is not in cover of any type. A monster hiding in the woods/cover negates the double-tap poison shooting automatically. Conversely, J&S skinks can even use their poison at long range at a target in cover, which markedly improves their effectiveness at getting the magic autowound against big nasties. With hand of glory, the balance might shift a little but not markedly since J&S will always hit better. Furthermore, J&S always get the stand and shoot reaction, which adds in yet more opportunity for poisoned shots hitting home.

    2) Combat - My skirmishers are expected to take one for the team so I like to give them the illusion that they are combat ninjas with sword & board. Now that they have 5+/6+ AS/Parry Save, their egos have inflated to the point where they laugh at their blowpipe cousins as cowardly wimps :D Also, with skink priests now packing beast lore, wyssan's buffed J&S skinks can take on most enemy fast cav and chaff and come away looking like saurus warriors!

    Previously, the slight advantages of J&S were just about equally outweighed by the additional points cost. However, since they are now the same cost as blowpipes (i.e. relatively cheaper to before) with an improved armour save, I find the advantage has tipped more in their favour. While blowpipes are still good, I personally think the J&S are better based on the way I use them. Then again, the blowpipe skinks may be a little smarter and have figured out that getting tossed under the bus isn't their idea of fun and have hence decided to avoid showing up when I put out the rallying call for battle :D
     
  6. Daeghrefn
    Saurus

    Daeghrefn New Member

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    I personally prefer to use blowpipes on my normal skinks. The ability to march and still fire means that I am quite often able to get short range on a target. Having blowpipes allows you to potentially get double the shots; I generally aim to fire at things that require a 6 to hit since usually the poison hits are the only ones that wind up as wounds anyways.
     
  7. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Exactly. :smug:
     
  8. OmegaHavoc
    Cold One

    OmegaHavoc Member

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    Good point. However with Javs hitting on 5+ unless the target its in cover you will be getting twice as many hits as single tap blowpipes. Once you're in short range the double tap blowpipes start to outshine the Javs. Same amount of hits for both but all the blowpipe shots will wound, half of the Javs will auto wound. Some more of the non poison jav shots will wound. However you get more protection out of the jav and shield as no general will allow you to just run circles around a unit for the entire game. At some point your Skinks will get into combat.

    Edit: actually in short range Javs with hit on 4+ resulting in more hits. Against t3, same wounds as blowpipes.
     
  9. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I use both. I can usually sneak a unit or two out on the flank or behind my opponent. That lets me march into short range and pepper the enemy.
    I want to have some jav skinks as well, because they are often... lets say, "Selected for Glory".
    Somebody has to stand in front of that charging block of chaos warriors with extra hand weapons, and skinks look like the perfect tool for that job. 5+/6++ isn't that shabby.

    -Matt
     
  10. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    I'm not sure I'll ever take blowpipes anymore. Dice modifiers add up too fast. Javelins have always proved more reliable for me.
     
  11. OmegaHavoc
    Cold One

    OmegaHavoc Member

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    The more I think about Javelins, the more I come to the conclusion they are the best option for Skinks especially now they are a free upgrade.
     
  12. Soteks Prophet
    Skink

    Soteks Prophet New Member

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    I used to take units of 15 javelin skinks and then 1 unit of 12 scouting blowpipe skinks. Since they don't scout anymore I'm not so sure how much use I'd find them. There's moving, over 1/2 range and double tap. Ideally you want to end up with the double tap on a 6 for poison.

    I also agree with Javelin + shields (my favourites) since they've gotten their 6+ scaly skin back that's 5+ in combat & a 6+ ward save for a 50% save chance vs Str3.

    So currently Javelins & Shields all the way!
     
  13. Haemoglobin
    Ripperdactil

    Haemoglobin 9th Age Army Support

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    I seem to have no problem at all getting my skirmishers close enough to use double shots and hit on sixes. I personally still favor the extra poisoned hits, but a 5+ as skirmisher does seem nice.
     
  14. OmegaHavoc
    Cold One

    OmegaHavoc Member

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    I've never had a problem with that either. Just the thought of hitting on 4+ at close range and having a 5+ save is very attractive.
     
  15. lizardmek
    Saurus

    lizardmek New Member

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    I've found now that its a free swap and the fact you don't get Get -1 for moving and shooting helps increase their range
    Plus there a lot of bonus for the javelins because of the scaly skin They get 5+ save vs shooting and plus if they get a parry in combat too

    On top of that I feel that it has a lot of bonuses with beasts magic with the weapon having the strength of the user with 1 or 2 wildform's cast on the skinks the S 3 shot jumps to S5 and and that can/really hurt
     
  16. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    I think now the default is javelin and shield, however I'll probably keep a blowpipe team around just for monster hunting.
     
  17. Wizgamer
    Cold One

    Wizgamer New Member

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    Personally, I work it as.....

    Skink has BS 3. This means.....

    Blowpipe single shot, not moved, short range = 4+
    Blowpipe single shot, not moved, long range = 5+
    Blowpipe single shot, moved, short range = 5+
    Blowpipe single shot, moved, long range = 6+

    Blowpipe double shot, not moved, short range = 5+
    Blowpipe double shot, not moved, long range = 6+
    Blowpipe double shot, moved, short range = 6+
    Blowpipe double shot, moved, long range = 7+

    Javelin, not moved, short range = 4+
    Javelin, not moved, long range = 5+

    Quick to Fire means...

    Javelin, moved, short range = 4+
    Javelin, moved, long range = 5+

    ...so exactly the same for moving as not moving

    Add to the fact the Javelin ALWAYS allows stand and shoot due to Quick to Fire, plus you get the shield which bumps the AS to 5+ and grants a 6+ PS as well.

    NOTE: Remember that you need to add -1 if firing into Skirmishers as well
     
  18. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I think you'll see a lot of debate about which to take, because both are really good.
    While the jav does have an advantage a lot of the time, if you can get close for the double fire on a 6 with the blowgun, it pulls ahead against anything T4 or more.

    I like both; simply because the threat of buck of dice blowguns can cause opponents to over-react.

    -Matt
     
  19. OmegaHavoc
    Cold One

    OmegaHavoc Member

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    p.s. javs are strength of user.
     
  20. Wizgamer
    Cold One

    Wizgamer New Member

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    which means if the skinks using them were buffed by the likes of Wyldform, their javs would be hitting strength 4 not 3 like blowpipes
     

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