Hey guys, So our book has been out six months, we've all gotten used to it, and we know whats good and whats not. While I was watching some of OnceBitten's battle reports, I realized that of the 5-6 guys on youtube that really discuss warhammer tactics, you have 2xEmpire 2xBrettonia, OnG, Dwarfs, Throgg Warriors, and Vampire Counts. Malorian is the only one I can think of who even plays Lizardmen, and most of his tactica videos are either general to all armies or are OnG/Dwarf specific. So, I decided "why not start doing stuff on youtube for Lizardmen?" If you guys can C&C my first 2 parts of my book review (very rough, sorry first recording attempts), I would greatly appreciate it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=726oPwQOOmg
Hey man, just watched your Lords+Heroes review. I actually think bumping up the cost of Slann was more a move to prevent double Slann lists, rather than anything to do with his abilities. It's now functionally impossible (unless you run them naked) to do double Slann below 3k. As far as 'eggs in one basket', yeah its true, but when you think about it most people bunker their Level 4, General and BSB in the same 'bodyguard unit' usually anyway. Ogres do it, Empire does it, DE usually as well (giant unit of sacrificial Warriors to feed her). In any case, given how much the Slann has to make up for our completely meaningless shooting phase (le sigh, one day we'll get warmachines), losing him is GG, regardless of whether he's the BSB and General as well as your Level 4. GW are never going to change that, so if people don't like it, they should play a different army. That's just how Lizardmen have been designed. With regards to his drawbacks, I think one of the biggest ones you failed to mention is that you have to invest in a bodyguard for him. Not just Temple Guard (they're amazing, but they're still a sunk cost as well), I mean need a kitted out Scar-Vet to save him from challenges and from more generally getting ripped apart by flying monsters or heroes (ie challenge the Elf Lord or whatever whilst the TG slowly rip apart the Dragon he's riding). Slann are amazing support and magical artillery, but his combat stats are pathetic. Chaos Sorcerors etc can fight quite well in a challenge and still be Level 4's with good Lore access, Slann rely entirely on doing well in the Magic phase and not dying. With regards to predictability, you alluded to it before. Fantasy is extremely predictable across the board, almost every list is some variation of; Level 4 (unavoidable, nothing else will dispel as reliably, and he's usually the one with most Lore access) Fighty General (less popular now that Death magic or other RFP abilities make his huge statlines worthless) BSB Hero 1-2 Level 2's Min Core Mage Bunker BSB Bunker (these are sometimes combined, depending on how cheap they are) Artillery/Monsters (sometimes both) Oldbloods aren't bad really, it's just that the need for fighty Generals is the lowest it's ever been, and as you mention, Scar-Vets do the same job at a discount. I would've bumped him to a 3, he's fun in a monster mash list with no Slann (it's another Carnosaur, as you can only squeeze two into Heroes). He's only in the army because otherwise Blade of Realities would have no legal model to field it on (dunno why it's 100pts when Ogre Blade does half its job at just 40pts). With regards to stacking armour on the Skink Chief, if you wanna make him tanky, go Armour of Destiny (you can only have one magic armour anyway, so you can't take a magic armour and Enchanted Shield) and a normal shield. Add in the mounted bonus and his 6+ Scaly Skin, he's at 2+/4+. Ward saves are better this edition, so much goes through armour nowadays. I love Chiefs, wish they had 75pts of items or something, because you either have to choose to be hacky or tough. Piranha Blade on him is pretty hilarious though. With regards to Priests, I think you overlooked how good Lore of Beasts is for our guys. Saurus with S5 and T5 are brutal, especially now we have ways other than a Lore of Light Slann to make them swing faster (Solar Engine buff, Hand of Glory from High Magic). Temple Guard with T5 and S6 (including halberd bonus) without need Lore of Life is pretty hella sweet. Obviously the Priest himself is meh, but he's hiding from challenges and has lower Leadership anyway, so having him sit at the back and cast 'Wildform' onto units is fine. Also, as you mentioned in the review, we need Cube and dispel scroll to shut down all the RIP people like to have (Lore of Life users in particular hate losing Throne). I like making mine Level 2's but even at Level 1, 'Wildform' is worth 1-2 dice thrown at it.
Just watched the Core units review: I think you should give Saurus a 4. Their crappy WS3 and abysmal I1 are meant to be solved by buffs. GW intend for you to put Solar Engines behind them to bring them to I2, and then use Hand of Glory from a Slann to get them higher (maxing out at I4). If you're really concerned, you can always just go Lore of Light on your Slann (WS10/I10 on Saurus is hilarious). The key point is they trade favourably with Elite units, and against chaff (ie Skavenslaves, human tier stats), they rape face. Predatory Fighter does happen and it's pretty handy (I would've wished for a straight +1A, but GW clearly though that was too OP, yet they wrote the Ogres book with a straight face). Also, as I mentioned in my earlier post, Skink Priests putting Wildform on them is pretty nasty, lets you tank harder and hit harder, which helps in trading well. Also, a 4 indicates they're a mainstay for Lizardmen, which is true. They're one of two viable Core options, and they're the easier one to buff (T2 Skinks are just too weak, even with Krox backing them up). Skinks I think you rated fairly. I don't understand people's switch to Cohorts, they're just to easy to run over with even just other chaff Core (nevermind Specials, who barely notice the speedbump). Skirmishers I run a couple off as anti-monster and for getting in the way of charge lanes. Also you forgot Jungle Swarms lol it's okay, most players don't even think of them either. But they do give Poisioned Attacks now and they're fast enough to keep up with Saurus, so there is that. Shame about the points cost though...
I guess I should have been clearer, I was more looking for C&C of how I did the review rather than the content, as the content is purely my opinion and not spposed to be a general consensus of the community. I didnt forget beasts for wyssan's, the last part of the review will be of magic lores, though since Wyssan's needs a 10 to go off, im not sure why you think you can through 1-2 dice at it, as you need a 9+ so its at least a 3 dice spell. Also, Jungle Swarms are special I did forget the bodyguard drawback, thanks for pointing that out, though I wouldnt regard his combat stats as a drawback since Chaos and Ogres are the only casters in the game that actually can fight (outside some unique ones like loremasters of hoeth) Also, while Saurus "are meant to be solved by buffs" that doesnt change how good they are as a unit themselves (and anyway the Solar engine buff to I2 is really only Purple Sun Protection) While their low WS and I is a boon to using Lore of Light, the fact that we have access to those spells doesnt negate those drawbacks, as magic can always be dispelled.
Oh I see. Well I thought you did a pretty good job. Repeating yourself a bit in some sections, but it's your first time doing it so I didn't mind. Looking forward to your thoughts on Special. I'm guessing Jungle Swarms get a 1 haha. Herpa derp, shows how often I use Beast Lore lol. I just assumed most of the Signatures are 5+ range. 10+, urgh...still a good spell, but only worth casting in turns you don't need the dice for a nuke or a more dominating spell from the Slann. I'm keen to see what you think of our Lore access, especially the High Magic we have access to. Well, I was kinda more arguing that those combat Wizards cost less than him and aren't that much worse at spell slinging, whilst still being formidable melee opponents to most characters. So like, if they're gonna make him worse than a Grot at punching stuff, they should bring his cost down to 275. I think Wizards are in general a bit overpriced (Sorcerors and Slaughtermasters just have too good statlines for what they do). Oh yeah, not disputing that Saurus have dumb stats (WS3/I1, on a frontline 'bred for combat' unit...yeah okay GW), but in context we have solutions to that problem. Solar Engine shouldn't be viewed as Purple Sun protection, Bastilodons die to Bowling Ball very easily, I think if anything the +1 Initiative aura is most relevant in combat. Not to mention Solar Engines are our only good gun platform (sigh, Steg bolt throwers). I'll wait for you review Special though, before I dive into arguing about our different monsters.
I have to disagree here. Saurus are only equitable with Elites that are hilariously under powered themselves: ie, Wood Elves and Skaven, possibly Orcs and Goblins. They'll get overshadowed by most Special Choices due to access to much higher strength, or outright superior stats - either they won't hit enough, they won't wound enough, or they'll take too many wounds in return - whilst the true Elite of Elves, Warriors, Ogres and Daemons won't give Saurus a second glance as they go through them like a hot knife. Yes, they are good at killing low quality infantry. Everything is good at killing low quality infantry - that's why they are low quality infantry. I don't consider Dark Elf Spearmen to be good choices because they can kill Skavenslaves or non Halberd State Troops. Speaking for myself, as I've just made this switch even though when 8th Lizards dropped I said I'd never use Cohorts again, its because of the increasing prevalence of high Strength in the game (itself a reaction to all the high armour now running about) making T4 nearly as irrelevant as S4. Most of the damage dealing stuff out there is now S5/S6 or higher, which means that it goes through Saurus just as quickly as they would Skinks. Unfortunately, the days of big blocks of humble S3/S4 Core infantry that we saw at the beginning of 8th edition are a thing of the past (unless those blocks can get Great Weapons or are Witch Elves). Neither unit is going to kill much (crappy WS and crappy S all round), so with that being the case, you might as well bring Skinks who: a) will have more models, b) won't die as easily to the ubiquitous Purple Sun, c) have better movement than Saurus, d) have about as much chance of achieving something with Poisoned Javelins, or Poisoned Attacks, as Saurus do with Predatory Fighter e) can keep you in the high Strength/high Armour Save arms race with some Kroxigor in Core (thus saving you Special/Hero points, which is where everything is that will actually help you win battles) and, finally, f) whilst you can buff Saurus to the point that they can achieve something, there's other units in the book with vastly greater pay offs (Temple Guard, Ripperdactyls, Scar-Vets, Kroxigor) - a Skink Priest has a had time just casting one Wildform, so you want it where it will make the most difference. Whereas the much easier to cast Iceshard Blizzard is just as useful on Skinks as it is on Saurus; freeing your Slann to drop the spells you want where they are needed the most. Perhaps, most importantly of all, Skink expectations are significantly lower: you don't expect them to do anything but sell their lives, so if they do do something - great. If not, okay then. Whereas with Saurus, you've got that profile being a bitter disappointment every time you remove models in droves from Purple Sun or Monstrous Cavalry, or every time you finally get to make a bunch of attacks and only deal one wound because you can't hit anything. Putting Jungle Swarms in Core, or giving Saurus Blessing upgrades for ppm similar to Chaos Marks, would have gone a long way to making them that much more viable. As it stands, much like the Lizardmen book as a whole, they are almost good, but not quite good enough to take over more fodder. Of course, after watching my Cohort blocks get torn up I'll probably come back here to eat my words.