1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The April Poetry Contest has opened for voting! For more information, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Tutorial Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Caneghem, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Starting a new thread, now each section is a separate post, hopefully this will make things a little easier to read. Also I managed to reach the character limit on my original post. Heh.

    Part I – Army Special Rules and Magic Items ********************************************

    Army Special Rules
    Cold Blooded – Unchanged

    Predatory Fighter – Roll a 6 to hit, gain another attack. Can only test to restrain pursuit within 6 inches of a skink character (including special characters). The drawback of this I see as rarely coming into play, as you can either A) keep a skink character nearby when your saurus are charging on your turn or B) not really worry about it if the enemy charged you, as after pursuing them on their turn you have a full movement phase to correct the situation. On the plus side, this can be viewed as a mostly freebie buff to attacks… that has the potential to be devastating if you roll a bunch of 6’s. Sure, you can’t count on it happening, but the enemy can’t count on it NOT happening either, which is where the “teeth” of this rule come from.

    Aquatic – Marshland Strider and River Strider. Models with this rule can march, claim rank bonus, and be steadfast in marshland or river. If majority of unit is within marshland or river, -1 to hit from shooting.

    Weapons of Lustria
    Blowpipe
    Range 12”, str 3, multishot 2, poisoned attacks

    Lustrian Javelin
    Range 12”, str as user, poisoned attacks, quick to fire

    These are the same as before, but poisoned has been rolled into their profiles instead of having the Jungle Poisons army wide rule.

    Magic Items
    Weapons
    The Blade of Realities – 50ss - no armour or wardsaves

    This is a big cost increase for an arguably less potent effect. Granted, it is no longer reliant on Leadership tests, which most things can pass quite easily near the general, but at such a cost the Oldblood will have only his armor to save him. On the plus side… there aren’t too many ways to cut through a ward save, and so characters reliant on broken wards would really fear this weapon, although the Oldblood would need to survive long enough to use it. I could see this in a saurus cav bus type list, backed up by multiple Lore of Beasts skinks boosting them to ungodly levels.

    The Piranha Blade – 25 ss – The wielder has multiple wounds (D3) and armor piercing special rules.

    Now there’s a weapon fit for an Oldblood! It still leaves him with points for a ward save and it should make him plenty threatening to other characters, monsters, and monstrous cav.

    Armor
    Stegadon Stegadon Helm of Itza – 20ss – +1 save, +1 toughness, D3 impact hits

    Wait just a second… First off, no longer is this item limited to only skink chief, saurus characters can now take this as well and it is cheaper. Secondly, remember the piranha blade? Do you see how they worded the rules for it? It does NOT say “wounds caused by this blade have the D3 wounds and AP special rules.” Rather, it says “the bearer gains these special rules.” So that means an Oldblood with both the above items would have D3 impact hits at str5 AP and D3 wounds! Now this wouldn’t apply if we were talking stomp and thunderstomp, due to the FAQ, but the FAQ says nothing about impact hits not benefiting from special rules. For now, RAW appears to grant the D3 wounds and AP to the impact hits. Maybe this was an oversight, but to me it looks like a combo they wanted us to use since the two items are listed right next to one another. Also the +1 toughness is golden, I’d stick this on a scar vet any day. It’s now cheaper too, ha. On top of that, don’t worry about needing a shield on that scar vet for his 1+ save, just stick a halberd on him and go to town. Now that’s a scarvet cowboy!

    Magic Standards
    Skavenpelt Banner – 32.5ss – All models in unit have frenzy and hate skaven. All skaven troops hate the bearer.

    The only unit now able to take magic banners is Temple Guard, and they have a limit of 25ss. So this is going to be placed on a Slann or scar vet BSB, and it is going to slightly increase the number of attacks and come with a big disadvantage. If you were to ask me why this gained 20ss in point value, I’d have to guess that during playtesting, in the one game it was used (against skaven), someone rolled a lot better than normal and got an absolute mess of 6’s, which triggered another large batch of attacks to occur due to Predatory Fighter. It was a freak accident, but the interpretation was “wow, that’s a really good banner” and so now it sits at its current point value. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see how this could have tripled in value. If you know you are going to be facing skaven, by all means stick this on your temple guard Slann and wreck face, but otherwise it is just not worth it.

    The Jaguar Standard – 25ss – The unit has Swiftstride.

    So this one doubled in cost, and now gives the Temple Guard unit Swiftstride (or a BSB joined unit I guess). I don’t see the point really. If you were really going to spare no expense and make a Temple Guard deathstar, why not save a few points and buy the Razor Standard? I suppose you could take both, but you’d have to really have something specific in mind. Other than that, I don’t see this getting much play.

    Arcane Items
    Cube of Darkness – 15ss – On a roll of 2+, the spell is auto dispelled. Whether that succeeds or not, roll another D6 for every remains in play spell to end them on a 2+.

    Hey look at that, we got another dispel scroll! The old one was fairly overpowered, now fewer people should complain and we still get lots of dispelling power. Now the key will be keeping this item in mind while your opponent might be thinking of casting remains in play spells. A dirty trick against an unaware opponent would be to allow him to get his RiP spells off early in his magic phase, then when he casts another spell pop the cube and take out both spells at once.

    Plaque of Dominion – 12.5ss – Bound spell L3 all enemy wizards within 18 suffer from stupidity until the start of the caster’s next magic phase.

    Obviously, this is now half the cost but it is a bound spell and is now an arcane item instead of a banner. But can you spot the subtle way this has changed? Now the wizards have stupidity until your next magic phase, instead of just taking a test. The difference is that the wizard (if on his own) will remain Immune to Psychology during your next movement phase, and you can charge him, knowing he can’t flee! Of course, how often do wizards really hang out on their own? And how often do they have enough Ld troubles to worry about Stupidity tests?

    Enchanted Items
    The Cloak of Feathers – 17.5ss – Skink character on foot can fly and gains MR(1)

    Not too surprised to see the point increase, but a little disappointed as well. I’d have a skink priest with the cloak and dispel scroll in every army. Of course, now that Arcane Vassal allows direct damage to be cast by the Slann through the skink, this item’s value has indeed increased. All manner of dangerous spells can have their range extended by 24inches now, instead of merely magic missiles. Death Slanns (or those planning on swapping for Death spells) should strongly consider equipping this on one of their attendant priests.

    The Horn of Kygor – 17.5ss – One use only. Sounds at start of chosen movement phase, all friendly monsters, monstrous mounts, monstrous beasts, monstrous cavalry mounts, cavalry mounts, chariot beasts, and war beasts within 12” of the bearer have the Frenzy special rule until the start of their next Movement phase. This has no effect on riders.

    There are actually surprisingly few valid targets for this one. Monstrous infantry are not listed, so no kroxigor frenzy. Other options are Bastilodon (only str 4), Cold One mounts in saurus cav units, ripperdactyls (no wait, already frenzied), Stegadons and Ancient stegadons (you really just have these for impact hits, but a valid target), Terradons (but you wouldn’t), Salamanders and Razordons (a few extra str 5 attacks), and of course the Troglodon (lol). I personally don’t see this being all that useful unless you build around it with a cav bus supported by stegadons, and even then it is only one use (though I suppose it should last you through two combats).

    The Egg of Quango – 15ss – One use only. Targets a single enemy unit in close combat with the bearer or his unit. Is triggered at the start of any close combat phase. Roll a D6:
    1 D6 S3
    2-3 D6 S4
    4+ does 2D6 S5.

    I think this is an interesting little item. Put this on a skink chief in a skrox unit or a chief in a cheap cohort and watch it work like reverse impact hits. Sure, it only works 50% of the time, but the 50% of the time it does work will annoy the hell out of your enemy. Basically a single use, reverse impact hits, that will do real damage half of the time.
     
    Wazz and Scalenex like this.
  2. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    Part II - Lords *********************************************************************

    Slann Mage-Priest (formerly Magwe Priests) – 150ss

    Stats Unchanged

    Magic: Is a level 4 wizard who can choose from the Lore of High Magic or any of the 8 lores of Battle Magic in the BRB.

    Special Rules
    Cold-blooded

    Mage-Priest Palanquin – Models with this special rule can always re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests. Additionally, while they have the troop type Infantry, they are never considered to be ‘models on foot’ for the purposes of spells, magic items, and special rules.

    Shield of the Old Ones – 4+ ward save

    Telepathic Confabulation – At the start of each magic phase, before dice are rolled for the Winds of Magic, two friendly wizards with this rule may swap spells.

    No big changes to special rules. Rerolling dangerous terrain tests might be useful if the TG unit ever needs to charge through some dangerous terrain. Also he’s now never considered to be on foot, so your solo slann doesn’t need to worry about being thunderstomped…though if he’s ever in that sort of combat he’s in big trouble nevertheless.

    Options
    Can take up to four Disciplines of the Old Ones up to a total of 75ss
    May take magic items up to a total of 50ss
    BSB – 12.5ss – Same as before, can still take other magic items along with magic standard, can still be general

    Disciplines
    Reservoir of Eldritch Energy – 10ss – At the end of the opponent’s Magic phase, Slann can choose to store a single unused dispel dice. At the beginning of the Slann’s next magic phase, roll a D6, on a 2+ that dice can be used to cast.
    That’s not bad, especially if you have two skink scroll caddies running around. I'd trade some defense for offense nearly every time.

    Soul of Stone – 12.5ss – When rolling a miscast you can add or subtract 1 from the result instead of accepting the original result (min. 2 and max. 12 on the table.)
    Another good value choice, it helps avoid those nasty dimensional cascades that can auto-lose you the game.

    Becalming Cogitation – 12.5ss – Allows the Slann to re-roll his first failed dispel attempt in each magic phase.
    This will be nice to have instead of Reservoir of Eldritch Energy if you are choosing to forgo the skink priest scrolls, or you simply want more defense.

    Wandering Deliberations – 15ss – Instead of generating spells normally, the Slann knows all BRB lore signature spells. This discipline can't be combined with the Focus of Mystery discipline.
    Not bad, but for only 2.5ss more you can have the entirety of High Magic and be able to mix and match. I guess it depends on what you’re going for.

    Harmonic Convergence – 15ss – Slann rolls 2 additional dice whenever he attempts to channel power or dispel dice.
    One of the two ways you can generate additional power dice, I plan on taking this every time with the Channelling Staff from the BRB.

    The Harrowing Scrutiny – 15ss – Terror
    It’s still there, now slightly cheaper. I still don’t see the point because you’ve got lots of better options for terror that don’t eat up a Discipline slot.

    Transcendent Healing – 15ss – If this model is alive at the end of any friendly Magic phase, roll a number of D6 equal to the difference between the Slann’s starting wounds and his current Wounds. For each roll of a 6, he immediately recovers a single Wound lost earlier in the battle.
    If you’re planning on taking High Magic, this doesn’t seem all that appealing. You’ll always have a cheap healing spell at your disposal, and if your Slann is seeing enough action that he needs more healing, you can swap out a High Magic spell for a Lore of Life spell and use the attribute. Not bad, but not that great when you consider the Slann’s role and the limit of 4 disciplines.

    Unfathomable Presence – 15ss – Roll a D3 at the start of enemy magic phase, gains Magic resistance (X) until end of turn where X is equal to the D3 result.
    This should be called Unfathomable Discipline Choice, because for the same points you can have a talisman that is always MR2 that also doesn’t eat into your disciplines.

    Focus of Mystery – 17.5ss – “The Slann Mage-Priest has the Loremaster (Lore of High Magic) special rule. This discipline cannot be combined with the Wandering Deliberations discipline.”
    That’s the direct quote, and unlike the Wandering Deliberations, it does not say the Slann no longer rolls spells normally. HOWEVER, the BRB is fairly clear that Loremaster precludes the rolling of any other spells. So don’t try to cheese out and claim you get all the High Magic spells as well as 4 randomly rolled spells. Wording issues aside, High Magic is an excellent Lore (which I’ll do a separate LM-centric review for eventually) and I will probably always take this option. You get a full gamut of fairly useful spells, and you can trade them out whenever you like for new ones, with the chance of getting something better than the signatures. You can swap out as many spells as you cast also, so the first magic phase will probably involve popping off Soul Quench, Tempest, and Fiery Convocation (as many as you can), then replacing these with something more useful (or if not, then High Magic is pretty darn good in its own right). This Lore allows a level of spell deck customization currently unparalleled in the game.

    Higher State of Consciousness – 30ss – Ethereal and Unstable, but can't join units.
    Well, some people just want to run the Slann solo. It looks like you can still do it, but now you can never join units and you crumble… it isn’t as good as before, but I don’t think it is totally broken. Losing the Divine Plaque of Protection also hurts. With the MR2 amulet you’ll be safe from a good number of bad things, and just be sure to keep some skink fodder near him at all times for the 4+ Look out Sir. I guess a big advantage is you have less Temple Guard to wipe out if you miscast!

    Other
    Additionally, in Temple Guard the Slann always passes Look Out Sir rolls, which has two nice effects. First, you can’t be cannon sniped, or sniped with spells anymore (barring dwellers or the other usual suspects). The second effect is that artillery won’t be taking as many of those kind of speculative shots, since they now have zero chance of killing the Slann on a failed LoS. Bad news for the other monsters, good news for the TG, who won’t receive quite as much attrition and should preserve their numbers a tiny bit better.

    I should also point out that the Slann can leave the Temple Guard unit if he wishes, which is an amazing advantage he has gained. If you ever need to power-bomb a big spell, he can move out the back of the unit and be fairly unlikely to burn up your precious Temple Guard with the miscast.

    Also if you manage to make your Slann cause fear (Apotheosis anyone?), then any TG in contact with the Slann also cause fear. Fear doesn’t come into play all that often, but remember to make your enemy roll it if you just healed your Slann with Apotheosis. You never know, you might get lucky.

    Overall I think the Slann is still the lord to take, and what he has lost in raw power he has gained in supreme adaptability.

    Saurus Oldblood – 70ss

    Stats – 2.5ss cheaper, lost one point of initiative, down to I3

    Special Rules
    Cold-blooded
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin 4+

    Weapons
    Additional HW (not if mounted) – 1.5ss
    Halberd – 1.5ss
    Spear – 1.5ss
    Great weapon – 3ss
    Less expensive weapon upgrades.

    Armor
    Light armor – 4.5ss
    Shield – 3ss
    More expensive armor upgrades.

    Mounts
    Cold One – 15ss
    Carnosaur – 110ss
    Loping stride (swiftstride) – 7.5ss
    Bloodroar (3d6 Ld tests) – 12.5ss
    Carnosaur up 10 points base.

    Magic items up to 50ss

    I’m not feeling the Oldblood, when comparing him to his slightly younger brother. Scar-Vets now cost less, didn’t lose any stats, and in fact gained access to the Carnosaur, if that floats your boat. So really, the only reason to have an Oldblood is if you want more magic items, or you want to do the beastly combo of Piranha Blade with the Stegadon Helm. I've always advocated for the Oldblood getting some kind of minor saurus warrior buffing ability, or even Ld9. As it turns out he remains a strong but otherwise unremarkable combat lord. Well, maybe not unremarkable, but he doesn’t add anything unique to the army that, for example, the Slann adds. Just more firepower.

    I guess another thing worth pointing out is that he has a good shot of rolling up an extra attack with Predatory Fighter, given his base 5 attacks.

    EDIT: There are definitely some great combos for this guy, I was maybe a little too dismissive on my first pass. Imagine this guy on a flying carpet with the Stegadon Helm... T6 with impact hits to boot and flying around causing mayhem. He can still reach a 1+ armor save with this setup, and since you're not paying for a mount (just 100ish points of magic items), you should still be able to fit a decently tooled Slann in your list. He seems like he'd be a holy terror, just keep him near skinks for the 4+ LoS until you can charge him out into combat. He becomes an ultimate badass of maneuverability, and he may just have to replace one of my bastiladons and one of my skink caddies. Biting blade for magic attacks and an extra -1 to armor saves completes the picture. I want one.

    Special Characters

    Lord Mazdamundi - 390ss(!)
    Lord Mazdamundi - M4 WS2 BS3 S3 T4 W5 I2 A1 Ld9
    Zlaaq (Ancient Stegadon) - M6 WS3 BS0 S6 T6 W5 I1 A3 Ld6

    Magic Items:
    Cobra Mace of Mazdamundi - Magic weapon with ASF and Poison Attacks special rules. Additionally any models hit must reveal their magic items. If one or more hits are scored, roll a D6 and on a 6 all of the target's magic items are destroyed and cannot be used further in this game.

    Sunburst Standard of Hexoatl - Magic BSB standard. Lord Mazdamundi may also be the army general. Once per game, at the start of any enemy Shooting phase, can release the power of the standard to give himself and all friendly units within 12" a -1 to be hit from shooting, lasting until the end of the turn.

    Mount:
    Zlaaq (Ancient Stegadon) - This appears to be a normal Ancient Stegadon with no upgrades, and no Howdah Weapons.

    Magic:
    Lvl 4 Wizard who uses spells from the Lore of High Magic or one of the eight Lores of Battle Magic in the Warhammer rulebook.

    Disciplines of the Old Ones:
    Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Transcendant Healing

    Special Rules (Lord Mazdamundi):
    Cold-blooded
    Mage-lord of Hexoatl
    - He is a Loremaster of whichever Lore he chooses.
    Shield of the Old Ones
    Stubborn
    Telepathic Confabulation


    Special Rules (Zlaaq):
    Cold-blooded
    Immune to Psychology
    Impact Hits (D6+1)
    Large Target
    Scaly Skin (3+)
    Stubborn
    Terror


    This one seems to be one of the worst cases of an over-priced special character. First off, he has a magic weapon(!?) so that I guess his single attack at weapon skill 2 is put to good use. Hey, at least he strikes first, and with poison! Having a Slann in combat on purpose really only works if he's Ethereal and has the Fencer's Blades + Beast buffs. He has a magic BSB standard, because of course he wasn't a tempting enough cannon/pit of shades/etc target just being a Slann on a Stegadon. His one positive is that he can take Loremaster of any of the BRB lores, so at least you have that... if he lives for long enough to cast. Best case scenario, you keep him behind the lines, dishing out his 18" bubble of Inspiring Presence as well as BSB reroll. Ideally, the cannon will only kill the Stegadon, so that you can then move him into some Temple Guard. Mazdamundi is also stubborn, so I guess you could put him into a unit of regular warriors and they'd still be stubborn, whereas normal Slann's only make TG stubborn. His disciplines are ok, but not optimal, as he has Harmonic Convergence but no bonus to channeling. Given his points cost, you won't be able to field him in games under 3200 points anyway, so he might get to the table in a fluffy game.

    You could fix him by changing a couple things around. First, replace that dumb banner with something like...
    Divine Plaque of Guidance - Lord Mazdamundi and all friendly units within 18 inches automatically pass all characteristic tests.
    and also
    Divine Plaque of Protection - Provides Lord Mazdamundi and his mount with a 2+ ward save against all ranged attacks.

    With those two above additions, he would be a solid Lord for the points, and would work well in 3500 point games since you'd want that extra-large bubble.

    As currently written, however, this would be a poor expenditure of points even if his cost were half of what it is now, because he is just such an easy target without any way of mitigating things that can snipe him on turn 1. Probably our absolute worst special character in this edition, quite possibly across all editions. For shame Vetock!

    Lord Kroak - 200ss
    M4 WS1 BS1 S3 T5 W6 I1 A1 Ld9

    Equipment:
    Hand Weapon

    Magic Items:
    Golden Death Mask - All shooting or close combat attacks against Lord Kroak, or any unit he joins, suffer a -1 penalty on To Hit rolls.

    Magic:
    Level 4 Wizard, only casts Deliverance of Itza, but can cast as many times as he wants.

    Deliverance of Itza - Direct damage spell that targets all enemy units within 12". Each target suffers 2D6 Strength 4 hits. If a target is Undead or Daemon, they suffer 3D6 hits instead. Can choose to extend the range of this spell to 18" for 18+ to cast, or 24" for 24+ to cast.

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Eternity Guardian
    - If he joins a unit of Temple Guard, the unit becomes Unbreakable.
    Fear
    First Generation Spawning
    - Can cast his spell as many times as he wants. If he rolls IF/miscast, first roll a D6. On a 2+ you don't roll on the miscast table, but instead he takes a single strength 6 hit and D6 dice are lost from the power pool. On a 1, you roll a miscast as normal. If cast through an arcane vassal, the vassal also takes a strength 6 hit.
    Flammable
    Mage-Priest Planquin
    The Spirit of Lord Kroak
    - Wizard Level can never be reduced to less than 1
    Supreme Shield of the Old Ones - Lord Kroak has a 3+ ward save
    Unbreakable

    Well now we're getting to something interesting! His total cost is less than a tooled up normal Slann, but his versatility is fairly limited. This character is made for one purpose only... to lead a huge unit of Temple Guard on a desperate charge into the heart of the enemy line. It is not so much the Unbreakable as the -1 to hit his Temple Guard. Miscasting is almost a non-issue, as the majority of the time he takes a str6 hit, but his high toughness and wounds, combined with an awesome 3+ ward save, will keep him, and importantly, his Temple Guard alive. The list I would build with Kroak would lack my normal subtlety. It would be basically a big horde of temple guard with the razor standard and a big unit of skrox and saurus. I'd have a Level 2 beast mage and a Scar-vet BSB to hold the line (though the TG wouldn't care). Against an undead of daemon army, this guy would absolutely smash them to bits, especially if Kroak could pop off a 24" bubble of destruction. If he miscasts, who cares?

    Watch for this guy to be banned in tournaments, not necessarily because he's overpowered, but because people won't like going against him. His special rules are fun and very much fit his fluff, although he does lose some versatility that a normal Slann has. I'd probably run him in at least 40 Temple Guard. Keep a bastiladon nearby for +1 Initiative. You definitely also need some skink priests to help buff with Wyssan's or even iceshard blizzard, which will make enemies attacking the Temple Guard -2 to hit.

    Kroq-Gar - 260ss
    Kroq-Gar - M4 WS6 BS0 S5 T5 W3 I3 A5 Ld8
    Grymloq (Carnosaur) - M7 WS3 BS0 S7 T5 W5 I2 A5 Ld5

    Equipment:
    Light armour

    Magic Items:
    Hand of Gods - Enchanted Item, bound power level 3 spell, which contains the spell Shem's Burning Gaze.
    Revered Spear of Tlanxla - Magical spear. In addition to +1 strength on the charge, each unsaved wound counts as 2 wounds when calculating combat results.

    Mount:
    Grymloq (Carnosaur) - Same stats as a normal Carnosaur, has Swiftstride.

    Special Rules (Kroq-Gar):
    Cold-blooded
    Predatory Fighter
    Sacred Spawning of Xhotl
    - While Kroq-Gar is alive, he and his mount have a 5+ ward save.
    Scaly Skin (4+)

    Special Rules (Grymloq):
    Attuned to the Beast - If Kroq-Gar is ever killed, Grymloq automatically passes his Monster Reaction test and immediately becomes subject to Frenzy, and never loses his frenzy.
    Cold-blooded
    Large Target
    Multiple Wounds (D3)
    Scaly Skin (4+)
    Swiftstride
    Terror

    This would be a great special character if we were playing 7th edition. A 5+ ward is good, but not reliable enough to prevent him from being cleared off the board. The magic missile is a neat bonus, but you probably will rarely have a chance to use it, as if he's still alive he's probably in combat. Although unlike an Oldblood you might build yourself, this guy won't survive combat all that often. He has a pathetic 3+ 2+ armor save, and there's really no excuse for one of our Oldblood characters to have such a low save. The spear is neat, but once again it would have been very powerful in 7th edition.

    7th edition:
    Kroq-Gar could charge in, strike first due to charging, kill a bunch of stuff so that it can't fight back (no stepping up), and then almost assuredly break his target due to the doubled combat resolution bonus. Cannons were not quite as laser guided as they currently are.

    8th edition:
    Most things worth breaking with combat resolution will have tons of ranks, and be steadfast against our guy, who will get ripped up on the return attacks. Combat resolution meant infinitely more in 7th edition, now it doesn't mean much. I guess Kroq-Gar's main role would be to combo or counter-charge alongside a large unit of saurus with deep ranks to remove steadfast.

    You could easily build a much more powerful Oldblood on Saurus for far fewer points. So again, this is going to be one of those much less desirable choices.

    Tehenhauin - 115ss
    M6 WS6 BS5 S4 T3 W3 I6 A3 Ld8

    Magic Items:
    Blade of the Serpent's Tongue - +1 Strength on the turn he charges, also grants him poisoned attacks.
    Plaque of Sotek - Grants Tehenhauin a 5+ ward save.

    Magic:
    Tehenhauin is a Level 3 Wizard who uses spells from the Lore of Beasts

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Arcane Vassal
    Cold-blooded
    Hatred (Skaven)
    Immune to Poison - Poison attacks must roll to wound normally
    Master of Snakes - Allows Tehenhauin to join Jungle Swarms, he becomes unbreakable, and the swarms' Squish! special rule is ignored.
    Prophet of Sotek - Allows you to upgrade skinks in your army to Hate Skaven.
    Scaly Skin (5+)
    Tide of Serpents - While on foot, he makes an extra D6 attacks at I1, Str2, WS2, and poisoned attacks.

    Options:
    May be mounted upon an Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods, replaces one of the crew - 140ss
    - May be upgraded to have Unstoppable Stampede - 5ss
    - May be upgraded to have Sharpened Horns - 10ss

    You may upgrade any unit of Skink Cohorts, Skink Skirmishers, Terradon Riders, or Ripperdactyl Riders so that the skinks (not their mounts or any Kroxigor) have the Hatred (Skaven) special rule - 0.5ss per model.

    Here's a pretty fluffy choice. You can use him to lead a pack of swarms, probably backed up by some Bastiladon Arks of Sotek. You'll want to start with a large unit of swarms and continually buff that unit with more swarms. You're essentially just making a huge tarpit of swarms, and they won't crumble so long as Tehenhauin is alive. Unfortunately, he won't be alive too long. Lvl 3 on Beasts magic is alright, but you could take 2 level 2 beast skink priests for his price, you'll need to use his Beast magic AND his swarm buffing in order to make use of this guy.

    This guy brings to mind 7th edition High Elves. I know it sounds like a huge leap, but let me explain. I am of the belief that sometimes GW uses army books as a way to test new rules for upcoming changes in editions of Warhammer. So in 7th edition, we were all used to trying to get the charge to strike first, but then here come the High Elves who basically cheat, and don't care if they get charged. I think the change from "if you charge you go first" over to 8th edition's "Initiative order always" was a huge change. The 7th edition High Elves gave players a chance to play with this concept and give it some heavy playtesting before 8th edition.

    So basically, I think characters like Tehenhauin with his making swarms never crumble is a way to test out the concept of flat out unbreakable swarms, who never run or crumble. I think that would definitely make them a valuable unit.
     
    Wazz and Scalenex like this.
  3. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    Part III – Heroes *******************************************************************

    Skink Priest – 32.5ss

    Stats unchanged, same points

    Magic
    Starts as a lvl 1 from the Lore of Heavens or the Lore of Beasts.

    Special Rules
    Aquatic

    Arcane Vassal
    Slann can now choose to cast any magic missile or direct damage spell through a model with this special rule within 24” of him. If he does so, measure the spell’s range from the Arcane Vassal and use that model’s forward arc and line of sight for the purposes of casting the spell. Slann can still cast magic missiles, even if his own unit is engaged in close combat (but not if the Arcane Vassal is in combat). On miscasts, miscast applied as normal to Slann Mage-Priest, Arcane Vassal suffers a Strength 3 hit.

    Cold-blooded

    Scaly Skin 6+
    Hey, 6+ armor save is better than no armor save. I think of this as a chance to block the Arcane Vassal strength 3 hit when the Slann Miscasts.

    Option
    Upgrade to level 2 wizard – 17.5ss

    Mount
    Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods – 140ss
    Unstoppable Stampede (+1 attack on charge) – 5ss
    Sharpened Horns (D3 wounds on impact hits) – 10ss

    Magic items up to 25ss

    I won’t go too much into the Engine of the Gods here, that I’ll save for the Rare section. I will say, however, that the points cost is exactly the same as the rare Stegadon Engine of the Gods. The Engine of the Gods no longer gives the Skink Priest any casting benefit whatsoever, so you’d only need to mount him this way if you wanted to save on rare points for other choices. Seeing as there is no reason to take multiple Engines, it is doubtful you’ll ever mount a priest on one.

    Overall, the skink priest has gotten a lot better for no point increase. The Lore of Beasts synergizes well with our army, and the signature spell is probably one of the best signatures in the game. The addition of direct damage to Arcane Vassal is huge, and increases the Slann’s threat range with a ton of powerful spells. High magic brings 3 direct damage spells to the table, and you’ll likely be swapping out for some death sniping at some point. Don’t forget magic missiles like searing doom need a little boost from time to time. The ability to extend range by so much is just plain great.

    Saurus Scar-Veteran – 40ss

    Stats Unchanged, 2.5ss cheaper

    Special Rules
    Cold-blooded
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin 5+


    Weapons
    Additional hand weapon (non mounted) – 1ss
    Halberd – 1ss
    Spear – 1ss
    Great weapon – 2ss

    Armor
    Light armor – 3ss
    Shield – 2ss

    Mounts
    Cold One – 10ss
    Carnosaur – 110ss
    Loping stride (swiftstride) – 7.5ss
    Bloodroar (3d6 Ld tests) – 12.5ss

    Magic items up to 25ss

    Scar Vets are now absolutely great. You can see the same trend as on the Oldblood, weapon upgrades are cheaper, armor upgrades are slightly more expensive. The Cold One is still less expensive than on the Oldblood. You’ll see cowboys once again, and now with skink priests running around with Beast magic, you might find yourself rolling some interesting character buffing spells like Pann’s Impenetrable Pelt or Savage Beasts of Horros. At the very least, you’ll wind up with Wyssan’s Wildform. Overall, I can’t find the downside here, these guys were probably undercosted before and an even better deal now.

    Skink Chief – 20ss

    Leadership drops from 7 to 6, but he is 7.5ss cheaper.

    Special Rules
    Cold-blooded
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin 6+


    Weapons
    Additional hand weapon (unless mounted) – 1ss
    Blowpipe – 3ss
    Lustrian javelin – 1ss
    Spear – 1ss
    All weapons got cheaper.

    Armor
    Light armor – 1ss
    Shield – 1ss
    Armor costs the same, also remember the 6+ scaly skin!

    Mounts
    Terradon – 17.5ss
    Ripperdactyl – 20ss
    Stegadon – 107.5ss
    Ancient Stegadon – 115ss
    Either can take Unstoppable Stampede or Sharpened Horns for 5ss and 10ss respectively.

    Here is I think the strength of the skink chief for the average list, he’s able to take a bunch of mounts. The terradon works if you need maximum mobility for some kind of scheme you are hatching. Maybe you just want a cheap, flying distractor? Or maybe you want an assassin? You can stick him on a ripperdactyl and give him the sword of anti-heroes. Mounted up on either flying mount, he can get a 2+ save fairly cheaply, and his initiative is nothing short of exceptional. Now we get to the regular Stegadon. This is one that I haven’t spotted the usage for just yet. The giant bow still doesn’t get to fire using the chief’s BS5 (that I can tell, maybe a new FAQ will say the chief can use it). The biggest problem with this unit though, is the point difference between this and the Ancient Stegadon. 7.5ss for extra armor and +1 strength on a unit that relies on impact hits is an absolute no-brainer. Had they dropped the cost of “regadons” down to around 90ss they might have caught my interest a little better. But as it stands, the granddaddy Stegadon reigns supreme. I’m so in love with the Ancient Steg with sharpened horns, that the skink chief just might make an appearance in my army in order to bring another ancient steg to the table. Rare choices get a little tight I find, as if you were to take an EotG along with a regular ancient steg, you’d likely not find much room for taking any salamanders or razordons. More on Stegadons later.

    Magic items up to a total of 25ss.

    The skink chief will still find his way into the periphery of armies, perhaps moreso now with him having more options and a cheaper cost. I also imagine some interesting skink based lists revolving around a couple level 2 skink priests on Beast magic along with units of skrox led by dual handweapon wielding skink chiefs and a flying skink chief BSB. Of course, that army would have leadership troubles, so you’d probably want to find a way to throw in a scar-vet (Or Oldblood, your heroes points would be crowded). I could also see him in a list with a Skrox unit, wielding the Egg of Quango and a sword of might. This makes sure charging enemies have to pay the toll before they get to attack, possibly doing enough wounds to help a kroxigor or two survive the charge.

    (Updated 8.7.13)
    Carnosaurs


    Special Rules
    Cold Blooded
    Large Target
    Multiple Wounds (D3)
    Scaly Skin (4+)
    Terror


    Blood Frenzy - Once the Carnosaur (not his rider) has inflicted an unsaved Wound, it immediately becomes subject to Frenzy. Furthermore, the Carnosaur never loses its Frenzy.

    They went up 5ss and are otherwise unchanged at basic cost. The good news is that taking a Carnosaur no longer sentences your list to not having a Slann. I think this, more than anything else, is what caused so few of the mighty beasts to make it to the table in the last book. Taking the iconic Oldblood on Carnosaur still shuts out the Slann, but a basic level scar-vet riding the Carnosaur comes out to right at 150ss, the same point level as the Slann. You could still squeeze in another couple cheap heroes and some gear for the scar-vet in 2500 point games. I’m thinking a 4+ ward save for the Scar-Vet, as well as enchanted shield, light armor, and spear.

    Bloodroar for 12.5ss is a little on the pricey side if you are not building around maximizing its effectiveness. A Death Slann synergizes well with this one though, imagine Doom and Darkness on a key unit combined with the bloodroar’s penalty, you might be able to take a unit out of the game that way. Death is also nice because you may be able to snipe out their BSB and leave them without a reroll or general. Of course, with any Terror upgrade, you have to consider that it is totally worthless against Daemons and Undead.

    Loping Stride (Swiftstride) for 7.5ss is always worth it, in my opinion. This beast is likely to be safer in combat than out of combat, and when it becomes frenzied you might as well catch anything you pursue.

    I’ll admit I want to try one of these backed up with a High Slann and a couple skink priests with Wyssan’s. A boosted Hand of Glory could make all the difference on the Carnosaur, given its I2 WS3. A bit of a shame the Carnosaur didn’t also get Predatory Fighter, that would have been pretty neat also.

    One problem I have though, is finding the Carnosaur’s niche in the army. With Ancient Stegadons now being able to do D3 wounding impact hits, the Carnosaur’s D3 isn’t as unique or special in the army. If you are looking for something to perform can-opening duties, for the same cost as a basic scar-vet and carno, you can get 6 kroxigors. Even with one less point of toughness, the kroxigors will hang around longer since they have the same armor save and 18 wounds in the unit instead of 5. Not to mention, at full strength they will be rocking 18 attacks at strength 7 (plus PF), instead of a max of 5 (albeit multiplying to D3). Carnos get the strength 7 thunderstomp of course, but that doesn’t work against the things where str7 really matters most (and the hits also don’t have D3 wounds). On top of all this, the kroxigors can be fielded using core or special points, both of which help keep the heroes points available for priests and scar-vet cowboys.

    Carnosaurs remain a fun, if not competitive choice, and the model looks pretty great as well. Ok, time to move on to Core.

    Special Characters

    Chakax - 135ss
    M4 WS5 BS0 S5 T5 W2 I3 A4 Ld8

    Equipment:
    Light armour

    Magic Items:
    The Star-stone Mace - +2 Strength, always strikes last. All enemy models in base contact with Chakax must reveal their magic items. If Chakax scores one or more hits against a model with magic items, roll a D6, on a 5+ one random item is destroyed.

    The Helm of the Prime Guardian - +1 Armour Save. Enemy scouts cannot deploy within 20" of Chakax. In addition, if an enemy unit within 20" of Chakax contains hidden models, their presence must be announced as soon as they come within 20" of Chakax.

    The Key to the Eternity Chamber - When fighting in a challenge, he has 5+ ward and opponent has Always Strikes Last special rule.

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Eternity Warden
    - He must always issue a challenge and can never refuse one. When fighting in a challenge, he re-rolls all failed rolls To Hit.
    Guardians
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin (5+)
    Ultimate Bodyguard
    - When he joins a Temple Guard unit that contains a Slann, the unit is Unbreakable.

    This guy is a bit fragile for his points, for my taste. Only a 4+ 3+ armor save?? He's a little better in a challenge, with his ward save, but as ever, a 5+ ward is just not reliable. He has a chance to take out enemy magic items, but that's also a 5+ and very unreliable. I guess he makes the Temple Guard Unbreakable, but he'll be killed off pretty quickly by a character who knows how to fight. You will usually strike simultaneously with the Key's power, since both you and your foe will strike last. I don't know that I'd ever take him, he's a bit high in cost for what he does. Probably not a terrible choice though, if you want to mess with him.

    Gor-rok - 92.5ss
    M4 WS5 BS0 S5 T6 W2 I3 A4 Ld8

    Magic Items:
    The Mace of Ulumak - Magic Weapon allowing rerolls of all To Hit rolls. In addition, he gains an additional attack from Predatory Fighter on any successful To Hit roll of a 5 or 6.
    The Shield of Aeons - Magic Armour, Gor-Rok counts his armour save as being two points higher. Additionally, and model that makes a successful charge against Gor-Rok and ends the Movement phase in base contact with him must immediately take a Dangerous Terrain test with a -1 penalty.

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Immune to Psychology
    Predatory Fighter
    Resilient
    - If he suffers an Unsaved Wound from an attack that has Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow, or Multiple Wounds, roll a D6. On a 2+ he only suffers 1 Wound, regardless of how many wounds would normally be caused. On a 1, he suffers the full amount of wounds.
    Scaly Skin (4+)
    Stubborn


    My favorite hero and probably my favorite overall special character. This guy is tough (T6) to kill, and dishes out quite a bit of damage. Rerolling to hit and gaining PF attacks on a 5+ is a really effective combo, giving this guy a good chance to do a substantial amount of damage. Plus he's stubborn! This guy is great to anchor a saurus warrior unit, or a unit of Temple Guard without a Slann. He is MUCH cheaper than Chakax and in my opinion he's better. Buff his unit with Wyssan's and he becomes T7, which is just awesome. Savage Beast of Horros turns him into a one-man blender. Let me figure out his mathhammer real quick, though it gets a bit messy.

    Assuming he hits on 3+
    First roll - 4 attacks = 1.3 PF hits, 1.3 hits, 1.3 misses to reroll
    First roll rerolls - 1.3 = 0.44 PF hits + 0.44 hits

    Second roll (PF)- 1.74 PF attacks = 1.16 hits + 0.58 misses to reroll
    Second roll reroll - 0.58 = 0.387 hits

    Total hits = 2.6 + 0.88 + 1.16 + 0.387 = 5.027 hits on average, when he hits on 3+. That's insane-o. Now imagine him at strength 8 and 7 attacks. This is a very good special character.

    Tetto'eko - 92.5ss
    M6 WS2 BS3 S2 T2 W2 I4 A1 Ld6

    Equipment:
    Hand weapon

    Magic Items:
    The Eye of the Old Ones - Enchanted Item. After deployment, before Vanguard moves are made, D3 units can gain the Vanguard special rule.
    The Stellar Staff - Arcane item. If Tetto'eko successfully casts Comet of Cassandora, you may reroll the dice at the start of each Magic phase to see if the comet arrives.

    Magic:
    Level 2 Wizard, uses spells from the Lore of Heavens

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Arcane Vassal
    Cold-blooded
    Herald of Cosmic Events
    - Roll a D6 at the start of each friendly Magic phase. On a roll of 1, all friendly wizards casting a spell must re-roll any power dice of a 6. On a 2+, all friendly wizards must reroll power dice results of a 1.
    Loremaster (Lore of Heavens)
    Minor Shield of the Old Ones
    - 5+ ward save
    The Palanquin of Constellations - Can always reroll failed Dangerous Terrain tests. Always considered not to be a model on foot (like Slann). If he joins a skink cohort unit whose front rank contains 5 or fewer models, he must be placed in the second rank, displacing skink or kroxigors if necessary.
    Scaly Skin (6+)

    This is another pretty good choice that I would definitely think about taking. He'll usually make your magic phase more powerful, and he will always be casting a Comet of Cassandora. The Vanguard is great to pop on your Salamanders... they can Vanguard up 12 then move 6, setting up some nice first turn flaming blasts. If you take Tetto, it probably means you are skipping the Slann, since you have plenty of spells to throw dice at. The Harmonic Convergence augment spell is now a bit better, since it gives your saurus another chance to roll their Predatory Fighter. Iceshard Blizzard is always a nice debuff, and it helps silence warmachines. This guy will probably bunker up in a sizable unit of skink cohorts... I wouldn't want a bunch of kroxigors around him which would take strength 10 hits on miscasts. You'll need a scar-vet BSB and probably an Oldblood general. Throw in a couple blasterdons to support your missile spamming, just in case the skink priest blows himself up. He seems like a decent choice to me.

    Tiktaq'to - 85ss
    Tiktaq'to - M6 WS4 BS5 S4 T3 W2 I6 A3 Ld7
    Zwup (Terradon) - M2 WS3 BS0 S4 T3 W2 I2 A1 Ld3

    Magic Items:
    Mask of Heavens - Enchanted Item. All Terradons in Tiqtaq'to's unit use his weapon skill instead of their own. In addition, enemy units suffer an additional -1 To Hit penalty when shooting Tiqtaq'to and his unit.

    The Blade of Ancient Skies - Magic Weapon. No armour saves can be taken against Wounds caused by the Blade of Ancient Skies. In addition, when fighting against a model with the Fly special rule, you get +1 to hit.

    Mount: Zwup (Terradon)

    Special Rules:
    Ambushers
    Cold-blooded
    Drop Rocks
    Fear
    Flying Cavalry
    Forest Strider
    Master of Skies
    - One unit of Terradons can be upgraded to have the Ambushers special rule.
    Scaly Skin (6+)

    Options:
    One unit of Terradon Riders may have the Ambushers special rule for 2.5ss per model

    Ignoring armor saves is a nice bonus, but this guy is very fragile. T3 and 5+ armor means that anything he fights that is heavily armored will usually kill him when they strike back. He buffs a unit of terradons' weapon skill, but terradons are really very squishy and aren't meant for much combat. If he joins a unit of 3 terradons you're looking at a 275 point unit. When you consider that you can get two units of 3 ripperdactyls for the same cost (who have better combat potential), you begin to realize just how sub-optimal this guy really is. Once again, his mount doesn't get any special upgrades in statistics. I'm not seeing how he's better than a well-equipped skink chief assassin riding a ripperdactyl. He's a fun fluff choice, but not something you'd consider if you were optimizing.

    Oxyotl - 60ss
    M6 WS4 BS6 S4 T3 W2 I6 A3 Ld7

    Equipment:
    Hand weapon

    Magic Items:
    The Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee - Magic Weapon. Missile weapon with Range 12", str 3, Multiple Shots (3), poisoned attacks

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Chameleon
    Cold-blooded
    Master Predator
    - If Oxyotl remained stationary in his preceding Movement phase, shots made from the Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee in the Shooting phase wound on any successful To Hit roll of a 5+.
    Scaly Skin (6+)
    Scouts
    Sniper


    His three shots mean that most turns, when he moves, he is filling in for 3 extra chameleon skinks. His shots are magical, so he can pick off a spirit host here or there. The 5+ poison seems like it simply help him take out a warmachine that survived the previous turn. Even with the 5+ poison, he's doing the same poison damage as 6 chameleon skinks, which cost less than the special character by quite a bit. He can try to assassinate characters in units with his sniper rule, but it will be really difficult to get him into position to do this. I don't think he's that great of a choice, although I love the concept. It's just another fragile, expensive hero who isn't quite worth the points.
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  4. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    Part IV - Core *********************************************************************
    Saurus Warriors – 5.5ss
    Stats Unchanged

    Unit Size 10+

    Equipment:
    Hand Weapon
    Shield

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin (5+)

    Options:
    Command 5ss apiece
    The entire unit may take spears for free

    Saurus warriors are a good solid troop. They tend to be average to slightly above average in most areas, except for initiative which is a miserable 1 still. However, a lot more has changed about these humble fighters than merely the Predatory Fighter rule, as the rest of the army now has things to synergize with them.

    First off, there is a good chance you will be fielding a Slann on Loremaster High Magic if you are building the type of combined arms list that will include Saurus Warriors. This means Hand of Glory will always be available to buff up their average weapon skill. Initiative still seems like a lost cause until you factor in the Bastilodon’s passive buff, which you will likely have positioned to hit your saurus warriors and your Temple Guard. This buff brings their baseline up to 2, which is still bad but now buffable with Hand of Glory to anywhere from 3 to 5. This starts putting them into the range where they can strike at the same time or sooner than average troops, which can make all the difference in the right rounds of combat. And if initiative is hopeless against your target, you can always cast for straight up weapon skill, which means the spell is a cheap 5+ to cast. Boosting weapon skill on a unit that can pump out tons of attacks can be a huge deal. And speaking of the High Magic Slann, don’t forget you can drop a spell and take Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma, which you can then use to lower the enemy’s WS and/or Initiative, thereby giving you one more tool to adjust things in your favor.

    But by far the thing that helps saurus the most is the ready access to Lore of Beasts on skink priests. Wyssan’s Wildform is a spell that seems made to be cast on saurus warriors. It boosts their already above average strength and toughness 4 up to 5, meaning Wyssan’s becomes a spell the enemy must stop. I’m thinking of taking an Engine of the Gods, so a nice spear block of 30 will still have the 6+ ward save. HW/SH saurus are about as good as they used to be, and can take advantage (albeit to a slightly lesser degree) of all the new rules and buffs.

    Skink cohorts – 2.5ss
    Stat change - Now Leadership 5

    Unit Size 10+ Skinks

    Equipment (Skink):
    Hand Weapon
    Lustrian javelin
    Shield

    Equipment (Kroxigor):
    Great Weapon

    Special Rules (Skink):
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Scaly Skin (6+)
    Spawn-kin
    - This is the rule for adding kroxigors to the units. One thing I noticed is that models must be in base contact with a front rank skink to hit the kroxigor behind, so supporting attacks won't be able to target the kroxigors.

    Special Rules (Kroxigor):
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Fear
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin (4+)


    Options:
    All command options 5ss
    Skinks can have poisoned attacks for 1ss each
    May add one kroxigor for every 8 skinks in the unit for 25ss each

    Firstly, plain old cheap cohorts are as good as ever, and their ability to take poison makes them a tempting chaff unit with which to hunt monsters. Any high T target charging them will essentially have to weather 2 rounds of potentially poisoned hits from stand and shoot as well as close combat, since I4 is usually faster than monsters.

    I also want to see someone run a horde of 50 with poison, which comes to a little more than the cost of a unit of 30 saurus warriors. Against the right matchups, a big horde of poisoned skinks will definitely do some damage in the grind (albeit while sustaining massive losses). At least they now all have a 5+ armor and 6+ parry!

    Skrox – The knee-jerk to the rules changes to these was partially correct. Yes, their role is changing by quite a lot, and the krox losing their invulnerability to close combat attacks makes the unit a bit more susceptible to attack, and the unit now receiving stomp hits is also going to hurt. But kroxigors are now strength 7. Strength 7 is a big deal, as high armor targets are going to be pretty scared to face this unit down. The problem, then, is keeping the kroxigors alive so that they can strike.

    One way the unit formation rules changed for the better this edition, is that kroxigors can now stack up behind other kroxigors if no room remains in the second rank. So you can have a 6 skink wide unit with more than 3 kroxigors, they’ll just have to go behind your second rank kroxigors. You are still required to take 8 skinks per kroxigor, so really you are going to wind up with a large and very deep unit. The skinks still help against missile and impact hits, which make the unit a pretty solid choice against chariots and monsters with impact hits. And really, most monsters rely on their thunderstomps, while their basic attack profiles aren’t too impressive (with some exceptions of course) which means monsters will have trouble with the mixed unit. I’m thinking the hellpit abomination will also still have trouble here, because its attacks tend to target models in base contact (except flailing fists, ouch). Target selection becomes a bit more important now, but they still have their place.

    If you are planning on taking kroxigors anyway, this isn’t a bad way to take them. If you were planning on using krox vs infantry (as a flank unit?), you could run them independently under special to get their str 5 stomp attacks. A cast of Hand of Glory helps this unit make the most of its attacks, possibly allowing it to hit on 3’s, and Predatory Fighter will be especially great when it shows up on a kroxigor roll. Wyssan’s Wildform will help your krox survive, and str 8 brings a 1+ enemy armor save to 6+. And with Wyssan’s, don’t forget to adjust your skink javelin shots to 4, as well as their CC attacks. Overall, the same concept applies I think. Many skinks will be slaughtered as bodyguards for the kroxigors. They are no longer perfect protectors, but they provide a degree of protection against impact hits and other shooting hits like magic missiles. If I were to take kroxigors, they’d probably be in a mixed unit. Maybe 32 skinks and 4 kroxigors? I think the other thing to remember is that even once the kroxigors are killed off, you have a bunch of skinks leftover who can form deep ranks and just hold up an enemy unit with steadfast, while you flank with a Steg or something. Two units for the price of… two units (but on a single movement tray).

    The role will also change depending on how you field them. Here are some options.

    10skinks/1krox/muso – 55ss total. Not too expensive and a decent unit for the points. Capable of flanking light units, hunting warmachines, and messing with other support units. Think of this as a way to take a single kroxigor with a 3+ ward against shooting and magic missiles.

    16skinks/2krox/banner/muso – 100ss total. A fairly solid flanking unit that can deny rank bonus, has decent speed, and can hold its own against chariots and make a mess of other units as well.

    32skinks/4krox/FC – 195ss total. I think this unit might be the right size for receiving heavy chargers and having enough models left to respond. Run them 6 skinks across and 8 deep. The extra krox provides an ablative 5 wounds before the enemy can start reducing your counterattacks. The unit is expensive though, and there will still be things that can rip up your krox before they can do their damage. The good news is that the enemy will more than likely take many rounds to wipe out all the skinks they had been ignoring whilst dealing with the kroxigors. This should be ample time to allow you to come and flank them with another unit. You might even decide that the enemy won’t be able to wipe the entire unit out in the remaining combat phases, and so leave the combat alone, knowing your expensive unit’s value will be preserved.

    Skirmishers – 3.5ss
    Stat change - Now Leadership 5

    Unit Size 10+

    Equipment:
    Hand Weapon
    Blowpipe

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Scaly Skin (6+)
    Skirmishers


    Options:
    One skirmisher to a patrol leader for 5ss
    May replace blowpipes with Lustrian javelins and shields for free

    So it seems like the leadership hit was in response to the skink cloud, but the addition of scaly skin and a free upgrade to a shield if desired has made these some skirmishers that are annoying to get rid of using str 3 shooting. So the question that we fought over in our 7th edition book is now worth re-opening... skirmishers with blowpipes or shields and javelins? The shield is now more valuable because the scaly skin/shield combo gives them 5+armor and 6+parry in combat. The blowpipes give you that extra edge against monsters, but typically conditions have to be perfect for the double-fire poison to work. Also, with the drop in leadership, that 5+ armor against shooting will probably save you from having to take a panic test at a crucial moment. I vote javelins/shields, though I'll probably have some of each.
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  5. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    Part V - Special **********************************************************************
    Temple Guard – 7ss
    Stats Unchanged

    Unit Size 10+

    Equipment:
    Halberd
    Light Armour
    Shield

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Guardians
    Predatory Fighter
    Sacred Duty
    – Temple Guard gain Stubborn and Immune to Psychology when Slann joins.
    Scaly Skin (5+)

    Options:
    All command now 5ss
    Revered Guardian may take a magic weapon up to 12.5ss
    May take magic standard up to 25ss

    These just got really good for just a few points more than a regular saurus. Starting at strength 5, and with the ability to take the Razor Standard in addition to Wyssan’s Wildform availability, these guys can get to str6 -4 armor save without too much issue, which can really mess up armored foes. On top of that, a nearby Bastilodon provides I3 passive, allowing these to be buffed to I4-6 with Hand of Glory. It won’t be at all uncommon to see these guys striking first, so long as they are buffed and ready for combat. One of the best things about them now, is the Slann’s ability to bail out of the unit after a couple turns. Now the Slann can get his butt out of the way to allow more second row attacks and keep himself out of combat. PF spikes on these complete the picture. Simply put, lowering the cost and allowing the Slann to bug out have made these a great troop choice for any combat list. There’s also a random rule now where if the Slann gains the fear special rule, then models in base contact with him also gain fear. This might happen more often than you think, as the High Magic healing spell Apotheosis also grants fear to the model healed, so a self-healing Slann will grant fear to the TG for that turn.

    Jungle Swarms – 17.5ss per base
    Stats unchanged

    Unit Size: 2+ bases

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Poisoned Attacks
    They’re Everywhere!
    – Whilst an enemy unit is in base contact with one or more Jungle Swarms, all close combat attacks directed against the enemy have the poisoned attacks special rule.

    So these have lost the skirmisher special rule, (EDIT: Nevermind, BRB says all swarms are skirmishers) but have gained a pretty great combat buff in the form of poison. I’d imagine running a minimum unit of 2 bases near a block of saurus or temple guard. Charge with your infantry first, then charge the swarm in single file into the corner of the unit. The key is just minimizing enemy base contact, to prevent them from killing them off by striking first. Judicious use of Bastilodon and Hand of Glory’s initiative buffs could allow your big unit to strike first anyhow. During the combats where this poison is in effect, you’ll smile at every 6 you roll, as it means an auto-wound as well as an additional attack.

    Chameleon skinks – 6.5ss
    Stats: Lost a point of Leadership, down to 5

    Unit Size 5+

    Equipment:
    Hand Weapon
    Blowpipe

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Chameleon
    – Additional -1 to hit penalty for missile attacks
    Cold-blooded
    Scaly Skin (6+)
    Scouts
    Skirmishers


    Options:
    May upgrade one Chameleon Skink to a Stalker – 5ss

    Even though they have taken a minor point increase, these are still excellent scouts that can really do some early poison damage to things like warmachines. Still a great value, and a good choice to complement any style of Lizardmen army. Their usage hasn’t changed much, aside from them being a bit easier to panic off now. But really, they’re so hard to shoot at with regular shooting, and a regular magic missile always cleared them out before anyway. So to me, the Ld drop isn’t a big deal with this unit.

    Cold One Riders – 15ss
    Stats mostly unchanged, but cold one mounts now have 2 attacks each.

    Unit Size 5+

    Equipment:
    Hand Weapon
    Shield

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Fear
    Predatory Fighter (Riders only)
    Scaly Skin (5+)
    Stupidity
    Thick-skinned
    (Cold One grants +2 armor to the rider)

    Options:
    All command options – 5ss
    Entire unit may take spears for 2ss per model

    It hurts that they can’t have a magic banner, which means the Temple Guard is now the only unit in our book with the ability to take a magic standard. It’s still not a bad unit though, and they can be buffed up much like Temple Guard on the charge. They have a lot of strength 5 attacks to gain from Wyssan’s considering the cold ones now have 2 attacks. It is a unit that needs magical support for front-line fighting, or a good unit to use as protection for your Oldbloods and Scar Vets on Cold Ones. They are also a nice “lawnmower” unit, that can absolutely crush enemy support troops with a high volume of str 4 attacks and good armor save. I’m personally tempted by the cheaper, no-spear option. Another concern with this unit, however, is Predatory Fighter’s pursuit clause. You may want a cheap skink cohort bunkering a level 1 Beast Skink Priest to follow the unit around. Throwing out the odd Wyssan’s on a key charge and preventing unwanted pursuit might be worth the effort.

    Kroxigor – 25ss
    Stat Change: Kroxigors got back their strength 7!

    Unit Size 3+

    Equipment:
    Great Weapon

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Fear
    Predatory Fighter
    Scaly Skin (4+)


    Options:
    May upgrade one Kroxigor to a Kroxigor Ancient – 5ss

    Kroxigors have gotten a good deal better with str7 plus PF and dropped a few points. The only question is whether you want them in Core or in Special. In Special, you don’t need to buy skinks and you get the benefit of a few Strength 5 stomp attacks. The only problem with these is their relatively low resilience. Wildform on these makes them absolutely brutal against enemy monstrous cavalry. I could see a unit of 3 of these out on a flank. Casting Hand of Glory for WS on these is a high value, as each successful hit is probably going to turn into an unsaved wound, not to mention higher WS helps keep them alive.

    Terradon Riders – 17.5ss
    Stat Change: Down a point of leadership, like all skinks

    Unit Size: 3+

    Equipment:
    Hand Weapon
    Lustrian Javelin

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Drop Rocks
    – same as before, D3 per terradon, not while fleeing or charging
    Fear
    Flying Cavalry
    Forest Strider
    Scaly Skin (6+)


    Options:
    One Terradon Rider can become a Sky Leader for 5ss
    Entire unit may take fireleech bolas for 0.5ss per model

    Fireleech bola – Range 6” Strength 4 Flaming, Quick to Fire

    So the good old Terradons have gained a point of armor, lost a leadership, and gone up in points. The leadership really hurts these guys, since they are a unit that usually finds itself far into the enemy backfield. It is now worth the enemy taking out one of these for the panic check, which is a lot harder to pass now. Drop rocks is still excellent, essentially a non-dispellable non-magic missile that takes out a chaff unit for free. The bolas are interesting, as regen units will suddenly become vulnerable to our regular shooting. Think of popping a flaming wound onto a big regen unit, then unleashing your poisoned fury with a blowpipe stegadon. A flaming attack in the shooting phase makes all of your other shooting more potent. These are now more resilient to bow-fire, with their 5+ armor save, but at the same time they are a more tempting target for bow-fire, due to their lowered leadership. They perform many of the same roles, though in my view they have taken a hit overall due to their leadership.

    Stegadon – 107.5ss
    Stats Unchanged

    Unit Size:
    1 Steg, 5 crew


    Equipment (Skink Crew):
    Hand Weapons
    Lustrian Javelins
    Giant Bow – Range 36” - Strength 5 - Multiple Wounds (D3), Poisoned Attacks

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Howdah Crew
    – Describes combined statline, which to use for which.
    Immune to Psychology
    Impact Hits (D6+1)
    Large Target
    Scaly Skin (4+)
    Stubborn
    Terror


    Options:
    May be upgraded with Unstoppable Stampede (+1 attack on the charge) – 5ss
    May be upgraded to have Sharpened Horns (Impact hits do D3 wounds) – 10ss

    I should have mentioned earlier that characters riding a stegadon no longer explicitly receive an armor save for being in the howdah. It may be asked as an FAQ, but at present it appears that characters on Stegadons just replace a skink crew. The one advantage is that if the skink character is killed, no monster reaction table roll is made. It might be worth asking GW about the skink chief being able to use his BS for the bow/blowpipes, as sometimes even if a question had a previous ruling, they will change their mind when asked the same question again.

    The normal Stegadon got cheaper, and still carries the big bow around. With Hand of Glory boosting ballistic skill, you might be able to score a couple hits with this early in the game, and take out some juicy monstrous cavalry. The steg can still move and fire the giant bow as well. Don’t forget Walk Between Worlds’ movement is not considered a march move, so in theory you could set up some perfect shots for the giant bow. You’ll still want to boost the BS though, due to the average BS of the skinks on top.

    In combat the Stegadon is pretty good, but it is probably better suited for fighting infantry than anything heavily armored. If you take the regular stegadon, I imagine you wouldn’t bother with either of the upgrades, you’d just be using it for the warmachine and a little extra infantry support. That said, Wyssan’s Wildform is floating around more (and is -1 to cast on a steg) so this could easily turn into a str6 T7 beast on the turn it charges. In that case, maybe you sharpen the horns after all? Also worth mentioning is the initiative of 2. As with the Temple Guard, the Bastilodon’s aura pushes this to 3. Assuming you are using the stegadon as a close support unit for your combat blocks, you could Hand of Glory the Steg to strike first and have it hit on 3+. And with any Stegadon, keeping it near a Bastilodon will help prevent it from being as easily sniped with an initiative-test spell. In fact, now that the Stegadons use a combined profile, and the crew aren’t treated as separate models, all Stegadons should use the initiative 4 of the skink crew, meaning they test on I5 if near a Bastilodon. Purple Sun and Pit of Shades can suck it!

    Bastiladon – 75ss
    Bastiladon Stats: M4 WS3 BS0 S4 T5 W4 I1 A3 Ld6
    Skink Crew Stats: -- WS2 BS3 S3 -- -- I4 A1 --


    Unit Size:
    1 Bastiladon, 4 crew

    Equipment (Skink Crew):
    Hand Weapons
    Lustrian Javelins
    Ark of Sotek

    Special Rules:
    Always Strikes Last
    (Bastiladon only)
    Cold-blooded
    Howdah Crew
    Impervious Defence
    – for combat result purposes, the Bastiladon counts as having no flank or rear
    Large Target
    Scaly Skin (2+)
    Terror
    Thunderous Bludgeon
    – Before rolling to hit, nominate one of the Bastiladon’s Attacks as the Thunderous Bludgeon. This Attack is resolved at Strength 10 and receives a +1 To Hit bonus against models in the creature’s rear arc.

    Options:
    May replace its Ark of Sotek and 4 Crew with Solar Engine and 3 Crew for free

    All hail the Bastiladon, my new favorite monster! Actually it’s kind of a toss up between him and the Ancient Stegadon with Sharpened Horns, but we’ll get there later. The Bastiladon was born to support saurus infantry, coming around to flank an enemy stuck on a saurus block and just helping the grind. He can come in to support the saurus blocks against highly armored units with his Thunderous Bludgeon, combat reforming to face his rear to his enemy to gain +1 to hit.

    Ark of Sotek – This variant has the purpose of boosting up jungle swarm units as well as having a missile attack that can be used in combat. You are definitely taking Jungle Swarms if you go this route, as on a 4+, at the end of every friendly turn you will be growing the swarm by another base. The swarms help in the grind of things, giving your saurus blocks poison, as does the very close range missile spamming. The shooting attack has a range of D6”, strength 2, and each unit in that range takes 2d6 hits. On average this will do 1 wound (to anything above T3), and allow armor saves as normal. Elves will hate this more than most other armies. Think of it as 6 free poison shots into everything around the creature (same wound potential more or less). It can’t be dispelled, and does not roll to hit. Also note that this shooting attack works even if the Bastiladon marches, so be sure to walk him into the middle of a few units per shot.

    Solar Engine – All Cold-blooded friendly units within 6” gain +1 Initiative. Throughout my review, I have made reference to this little stat boost because it complements a combat list so very well. Purple Sun will now clear off a lot fewer models, and anything you keep near this bubble will have a decent chance of striking first if also boosted with the Hand of Glory spell. The Solar Engine also has a bound spell…

    Beam of Chotec – Innate bound spell (power level 3). This is a magic missile with range 24”. If cast, roll a D6. All attacks are flaming.
    On a 1, D3 Str3 hits
    On a 2-3 D6 Str4 hits
    On a 4-5 2D6 Str5 hits
    On a 6 2D6 Str6 hits, target also at -1WS and -1BS until next Bastiladon magic phase

    Well, this is significantly better than a Ruby Ring of Ruin! The sheer awesomeness of this bound spell can’t be overstated. Even on a 2+ it will help remove regen from a key unit if it manages to wound. This can then open that unit up to Soul Quench, Tempest, or any number of other magical pew-pews. On a 4+ chimeras and hellpit abominations need to start worrying. You can cast this on a single die too, you just need to roll a 3+. This is an amazing bound spell, I’ll take two thanks!

    So overall, the Bastiladon will usually be found supporting blocks of Saurus Warriors or Temple Guard. I also imagine you’ll see 3 of them in cheesy skink cloud armies, who tend to make their points by double-fleeing skinks and attacking at long range with magic. Also please note, the Bastilodon's combined profile and skink crew mean that it will usually take initiative tests on a 4 or 5!

    Ripperdactyls – 20ss
    Ripperdactyl Rider Stats: M6 WS2 BS3 S3 T2 W1 I4 A1 Ld5
    Ripperdactyl Stats: M2 WS3 BS0 S4 T3 W2 I3 A2 Ld3


    Unit Size: 3+

    Equipment:
    Spear
    Shield

    Special Rules:
    Armour Piercing
    (Ripperdactyl only)
    Cold-blooded
    Fear
    Flying Cavalry
    Frenzy
    (Ripperdactyl only)
    Killing Blow (Ripperdactyl only)
    Scaly Skin (6+)
    Toad Rage
    – Before the game starts, but after Scouts have been deployed, you can place one blot toad marker for each unit of Ripperdactyl Riders in the army. This can be placed on any enemy unit, and remains throughout the battle. When any Ripperdactyl unit fights a unit marked with a blot toad, the Ripperdactyls' frenzy grants D3+1 extra attacks, instead of just 1 (roll once for the whole unit) AND the Ripperdactyls re-roll all failed To Hit rolls.

    Options:
    May upgrade one Ripperdactyl Rider to a Ripperdactyl Brave – 5ss

    This is probably my new favorite unit, though it is definitely not the “wind up and push forward” MC we were expecting. Wyssan’s Wildform goes from 10+ to 13+ to cast up to 24 inches, which means when these connect with their target unit they can be made incredibly nasty and a touch more survivable. As ever, a boosted Hand of Glory can ensure that these guys find their mark on those re-rollable attacks, as well as ensure they actually get to strike first to do their damage before they fall.

    So these are frenzied, but as someone on this forum has very cleverly pointed out (don’t remember who said it first), they are also flying cavalry, and so can reform freely and face away from enemies when they land. I really like this unit for warmachine hunting, because unlike the Terradon riders, these guys won’t be taking panic checks. The reason I love the unit so much, however, is the quirky little Toad Rage rule, where you get to pick a target and mark them for death (essentially). I like this sort of rule because it really involves knowing the combat potential of each and every enemy unit and picking an appropriate target. It is essentially a “bet”, before the game, that the Ripperdactyl unit can take down the marked unit. Or, maybe you just want to bluff instead? Maybe mark a unit to make the opponent overly afraid and cause him to alter his plan? At the end of the day, you have to consider this unit a kamikaze unit, and it will take experience and skillful play to make them work. Also they are pretty darn good assassins. Remember, you’ll know which enemy units contain characters before you place your blot toad.
     
    Wazz and Scalenex like this.
  6. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    Part VI - Rare **********************************************************************
    Ancient Stegadon – 115ss
    Stats Unchanged

    Unit Size: 1 Ancient Stegadon and 5 Skink Crew

    Equipment (Skink Crew):
    Hand Weapons
    Lustrian javelins
    Giant blowpipes – Ancient Stegadon has 2 of these. Range 18” Strength 3 Multiple Shots (2D6), Poisoned Attacks

    Special Rules:
    Cold-blooded
    Howdah Crew
    Immune to Psychology
    Impact Hits (D6+1)
    Large Target
    Scaly Skin (3+)
    Stubborn
    Terror

    Options:
    Unstoppable Stampede (+1A on the charge) – 5ss
    Sharpened Horns (D3 wounds on impact hits) – 10ss
    If not a skink chief mount, may replace blowpipes with Engine of the Gods – 25ss

    The mighty Ancient Steg is better than ever, coming in at a lot fewer points, retaining statistics, being able to use skink Initiative for tests, and getting the Sharpened Horns upgrade. There’s heaps of synergy with the new list here. The ever popular Wyssan’s is -1 to cast, so your skink priests only need to roll 8 on three dice, making it that bit less likely to fail. And on the turn this beastie charges, you’ll probably want the extra strength, to be sure you blow through that 1+ armor and give yourself T7 to survive the attacks coming back at you. You’ll average 2.5 unsaved wounds against 1+ armor (at strength 7) which will then multiply to an average of 5 wounds total. You should survive the attacks back at T7 (they’ll probably only wound on 6’s, and you’ll get 5+ armor save), then in close combat you’ll average another 0.83 unsaved wound, hopefully finishing off two MC models in the first round of combat. With any luck, you’ll get to break them and run them down. If it looks dicey, send a scar-vet cowboy in there along with the Steg for some extra Str 7 goodness.

    The blowpipes are better now, they have a much more useful range of 18” instead of the old 12 inches. One drawback is they now have the Multiple Shots (2D6) rule instead of merely firing 2D6 separate shots. These means they take the multishot penalty now, where they didn’t before. So you can either not move, and shoot at the full range of 18”, or you can move to within 9” and still get the poison off. OR (and you saw this coming by now) pop a Hand of Glory on there, and even if you only boost BS by 1 point, you can move and multishot at long range. If you are planning on getting charged, try to be 9 inches away from the target so that you can still poison shoot as they enemy comes in (also, try not to get charged).

    Engine of the Gods
    Arcane Configuration – Can reduce the casting value of one of the 8 BRB lores by 1. Effect can only be applied once, does not stack with other Engines.

    Burning Alignment – Innate bound spell (power level 3) Direct damage spell that targets every enemy unit within 4D6”. Each target suffers D6 Strength 4 hits with the Flaming Attacks special rule, distributed as for shooting.

    Portent of Warding – The Ancient Stegadon and all friendly units within 6” have a 6+ ward save.

    Ok, let’s figure this bad boy out. I see the usage of the Engine being a good support unit for a Slann-free combat list. Arcane Configuration will help your Beast Lore skink priests spam out Wyssan’s Wildform and other buff spells onto your Oldbloods and Scar-Vets. A level 2 skink priest on Beasts will only need to roll a 6 to cast Wyssan’s on a mounted Oldblood, or a stegadon, or a carno-rider, or a unit of cold ones, or a unit of terradons/rippers, or a bastiladon, or even a humble hunting pack. You’ll only need to throw 2 dice for the curse of Anraheir or 3 dice for a boosted Amber Spear, assuming you are targeting the right units (which you normally will be targeting things which give you a further -1 to casting cost).

    Burning Alignment is your chaff clearer. It’s an average 14 inch bubble around your Ancient, hitting every unit with D6 str4 flaming. I also think it hits units in combat, but we may need an FAQ. Direct damage restrictions appear to limit what you can target, but this spell says everything so... who knows? Imagine facing off against a skink cloud, how many units you could hit at once if you get this guy in the right place… it would be glorious. It also gives you one more flaming attack in the shooting phase that can drop the enemy’s regen on a monster, which you could then follow up with an Amber Spear or even a one-dice Flock of Doom if you’re feeling plucky. The spell should help prevent the army from getting chaffed to death, and severely punishes MSU enemies.

    Finally, the portent of warding means you can take your spear saurus and give them the 6+ ward as long as your Ancient is nearby. This also allows you to have a nice unit of Temple Guard who are more survivable in the grind. Plus, this 6+ ward will help against impact hits, stomps, magic, etc so it’s actually a good bit better than a parry save. If you're going with spears, you might as well throw some swarms in there as well for the extra little buff on top of everything else.

    To sum up the Engine, I’d probably take two in a list where I was not taking a Slann, to help spam Wyssan’s on 2 dice, clear tons of chaff, and give the whole battle line a 6+ ward save. I might also consider taking an Engine with a non-Loremaster Slann, who would choose one of the main rulebook lores. However, with a High Magic Slann, it doesn’t seem necessary to have an Engine, since it can’t reduce casting cost of High Magic, and that’s where most of the casting dice will go. My EotG will have to wait until I make my combat Beasts list, which I think is a somewhat viable no-Slann alternative.

    Overall, the Ancient Stegadon has become a better monster, considering he now has access to a pretty great movement spell in Walk Between the Worlds, Wyssan’s for Str7T7, and also D3 wounding impact hits. All of that in a less expensive package than before! I like em.

    Salamander Hunting Pack – 40ss
    Stat Change: Handlers down to Ld5

    Unit Size: 1+ packs (each pack has 1 Salamander and 3 Skink Handlers)

    Equipment (Skink Handler):
    Hand weapon

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Fear
    Hunting Pack
    – Unit uses Monsters and Handlers rule, even though these are monstrous beasts.
    Scaly Skin (5+)
    Skirmishers
    Spout Flames
    – Fires using the same rules as a fire thrower, which means one casualty causes the unit to take a panic test. Template is now Strength 4, still has flaming attacks and is Slow to Fire, meaning no stand and shoot reaction.

    Options:
    May take an additional Skink Handler per pack – 2ss

    These have gone up marginally in points, but you could argue they got much better at their job of destroying infantry blocks. Strength 4 means a lot more wounds to begin with, and so most infantry will be reduced to 5+ or 6+ armor saves anyway. According to my math-hammer, against things like chaos warriors (T4, 3+ armor), the new template is worse, going from 4.16 unsaved wounds on 15 hits to 3.75 unsaved wounds on 15 hits. But against T4 and 4+ armor (like our saurus warriors), it is a total wash on averages. Going against anything with 5+ armor or T3, strength 4 is going to be better. And of course it is still flaming, so you can follow up your attack on a block of regenerating troops with a bunch of poison javelins or darts. Being able to cause a panic check pretty much on demand is another benefit of course.

    There’s the good, now here’s the bad. No march and fire means you won’t always be able to set up those perfect shots, and no more marching and firing on turn 1. However, if you manage to get off Walk Between Worlds, you can be assured that you’ll be able to fire in that shooting phase.

    These are also no slouch in combat, with a stunningly skink-like initiative of 4. You could easily charge a warmachine and be assured of taking it down. Likely though, you’ll be taking these in small packs of 1 or 2, to keep them from becoming an ultra expensive unit. Something that also remains to be FAQ’d, is whether or not you need to resolve each template sequentially, or else fire each template to determine a total number of hits, then roll all of the hits at once. I’m fairly sure it’ll be what it always used to be.

    Razordon Hunting Pack – 32.5ss
    Stat Change: Handlers down to Ld5

    Unit Size: 1+ packs (each pack has 1 Razordon and 3 Skink Handlers)

    Equipment (Skink Handler):
    Hand weapon

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Cold-blooded
    Fear
    Hunting Pack
    – Unit uses Monsters and Handlers rule, even though these are monstrous beasts.
    Scaly Skin (5+)
    Skirmishers
    Instinctive Defense
    – If charged, a Razordon Hunting Pack must Stand and Shoot if it is able to do so. When calculating the number of shots fired, each Razordon can re-roll the artillery dice.
    Shoot Barbs – Whole pack must shoot at the same target. Barbs fire using the same rules as a cannon firing grapeshot, but at Range 18”, Strength 4, and quick to fire. Like the Salamander, it can’t march and fire.

    Options:
    May take an additional Skink Handler per pack – 2ss

    These have changed more than people realize. Firstly, their firing rules have changed a little. I’ll hit the one negative I can spot first off, they now take a penalty for shooting at long range as well as for standing and shooting, where before they didn’t take these penalties. But as for the range, this is mitigated somewhat by the fact that their range increased from 12” to 18”, making it easier to get into close range. Effectively, their “optimum range” is 15”, move 6” + 9” for short range. But they also now have a max range of move 6” + 18” = 24”. Before, they just had a 12” range plus 6” move. Since they maxed out at 18”, you’d at times be left without a target. Now their threat zone has widened considerably.

    Another important difference is quick to fire… the old razordons didn’t have this rule. Now a valid usage of razordons is to push them up in someone’s face, making them unavaoidable, and you can stand and shoot even if you are 1” away! Before, you had to stay outside of the enemy’s movement range, or risk losing all of your shots. The stand and shoot reaction is now much more reliable as well, since you can reroll your number of shots. It also is an optional reroll, meaning against a weak foe you might not reroll a 2 or 4, choosing instead to play it safe and not misfire.

    What about damage? Well, let’s assume you are in position, hitting on 4+. The average number of shots is 20 (using 4 razordons), meaning 10 hits at strength 4. This is equivalent to a 3D6 str 4 magic missile essentially, with the potential to spike higher or lower.

    This unit also makes good fodder for High Magic spells, as with the rest of the army. Hand of Glory to boost their ballistic skill is a measly 5+ to cast… but how good is it? Let’s assume the same average of 20 shots, and that you managed to move to close range. Hand of Glory will 66% of the time give you 2 or 3 BS, meaning you will now hit on 2’s. That’s an average of 16.6 str 4 hits, roughly equivalent to somewhere between 4D6 and 5D6 magic missile. For comparison, the juiced up Soul Quench is 16+ to cast, and only 4D6! This one is 5+ to cast essentially, so much cheaper and if they dispel it you still do some damage. Obviously for skirmishers you’ll have to figure something out, or just take the penalty, but these are more meant for dealing a large number of hits to fewer models. Salamanders still excel at hitting the large blocks, but Razordons don’t care if you’re a block or not. Razordons are also less picky about where they need to be placed to have their “perfect shot”.

    As with Salamanders, a first turn Walk Between Worlds will see these guys into their optimal range, possibly allowing you to obliterate a single unit and cause others nearby to panic.

    But just using these as artillery would not justify the 260 points of the unit. You have to also use them as a very capable combat unit. With swiftstride, stomp, M6, and I4, these guys can deliver the pain fairly effectively to everything but the heaviest of troops. If you can't shoot the skirmishers, just charge them! You have a decent chance of catching them with your M6 + Swiftstride. Of course, you’ll have these guys near a flank and supported by other units, to help dictate matchups. Finally, they are not a bad target at all for Wyssan’s, which sends them to str6 and T5. And don’t forget, all the little skinkies become str4 (heh). Another neat trick would be to hit them with a boosted Hand of Glory when they are parked in front of something that might want to charge them. They’ll get a devastating Stand and Shoot, followed up by their full fury in close combat at I5-7 and possibly good enough weapon skill to hit on 3+. We pretty much closed the book on these in the last edition, but I think they bear further use and experimentation. Their decline in points and ability to go up to a unit of 4, combined with High Magic and Quick to Fire, makes this a unit I’d absolutely love to play with now. But again, it is one of those multi-purpose units that some people don't like. Use them for shooting and for combat, not one or the other.

    Troglodon – 100ss
    Troglodon Stats: M7 WS3 BS3 S5 T5 W5 I2 A3 Ld5
    Skink Oracle Stats: -- WS2 BS3 S3 -- -- I4 A1 Ld6


    Unit Size: 1 Troglodon and 1 Skink Oracle Rider

    Equipment (Skink Oracle Rider):
    Hand weapon
    Lustrian javelin

    Special Rules:
    Aquatic
    Arcane Vassal
    (Skink Oracle Rider only)
    Beast Rider – This describes the combined model’s rules, much like Howdah Crew on stegs and basties.
    Cold-blooded
    Large Target
    Poisoned Attacks (Troglodon only)
    Predatory Fighter (Troglodon only)

    Primeval Roar – Once per battle, at the beginning of any friendly close combat phase, a Troglodon can unleash its Primeval Roar, giving all units with PF within 12” improved PF (to 5+) for that single combat phase.
    Scaly Skin (4+)
    Spit Venom (Troglodon only) – A single shot shooting attack with the following profile: Range 18”, Strength 5, Multiple Wounds (D3), Quick to Fire
    Terror

    Options:
    The Skink Oracle Rider may take a Divining Rod – 7.5ss

    Divining Rod – Allows its bearer to channel power and dispel dice as if he were a Wizard

    Arrrrrgh! I wanted so badly for this to be an awesome unit, because I love the model and I love that you get a free Oldblood/Scar Vet on foot if you build the Trog. Also my buddy collects monster heads (he's making this Hall of Heroes with the heads of all kinds of beasts, different topic though), he’d love to have a carno one I’m sure. Anyway, let’s move through this bit by bit.

    We have Arcane Vassal on a large target… that needs to be back behind your lines anyway. Arcane Vassal is a great rule, there’s no denying it, but you can easily stick a level 1 skink priest in a cheap cohort or skirmisher unit and march them straight out turn 1, then flee if necessary. The Troglodon will more or less need to hang back and stay in a good position to use its roar, should the battle lines meet. So really, the arcane vassal is just a side benefit, better taken with a skink priest. Not bad, but not great or likely to make much difference.

    Divining Rod I’d probably take if I were taking a Troglodon, as 7.5ss isn’t a bad price to pay for 6 extra dispel and casting channel rolls.

    Beast Rider is good, it means that the Trog is Initiative 4 for stat tests. That’s one less thing that can take it out reliably. In fact, most of our monsters are pretty resistant to purple sun and the like, although saurus are still only at 2 with a nearby bastie.

    Poisoned Attacks is just ok, with the Trog’s measly 3 attacks. Poison isn’t exactly unique in this army! The best thing this rule does is give the ranged attack poison, making it a poor man’s Giant Bow. It can be fired first turn since it has 18” range plus M7. So maybe you would get some use out of Arcane Vassal after all? Move this guy up to take his shot that hits on a 5+ ;/ then use his line of sight to blast things? I guess it keeps one more skink priest out of harm’s way, and you can always flee with the Troglodon (which I highly recommend, always flee with this thing if you can, and live to fight another day).

    Spit Venom – The thing that would make this actually a decent attack, is if it either ignored armor saves or it was D6 shots or even if it fired like the skaven poisoned wind mortar… fires like a stone thrower, under the hole is always 4+ to wound, everything else is 5+, no armor saves allowed. Heck, just make it a Strength 5 breath weapon that causes D3 wounds and I’d be happy (ecstatic in fact). However, this attack is far inferior to the regular stegadon’s Giant Bow, since at least that weapon ignores armor saves. This attack is not even worth boosting BS with Hand of Glory, though you may occasionally run into a situation where you really want that D3 wounds on some monster with only an average armor save. Units of skinks, the giant bow, even the dual giant blowpipes play the poison game better.

    Finally let’s hit Primeval Roar. Let’s do a little math-hammer to see what this will tend to do, and compare it to the poison buff given out by the humble Jungle Swarm. Let’s just assume we have Temple Guard against T4 WS4 infantry for now, running them 6 wide.

    Regular Attacks
    TG make 18 attacks, gaining 3 from normal PF
    21 attacks = 10.5 hits = 7 wounds

    Primeval Roar
    TG make 18 attacks, averaging 6 extra attacks from the roar
    24 attacks = 12 hits = 8 wounds

    They’re Everywhere!
    TG make 18 attacks, adding an average of 3 attacks for regular PF
    21 attacks = 7 regular hits = 4.66 normal wounds, + 3.5 auto poison wounds = 8.16 wounds

    Primeval Roar + They’re Everywhere!
    TG make 18 attacks, adding an average of 6 attacks for PF
    24 attacks = 8 regular hits = 5.3 regular wounds + 4 poison wounds = 9.3 wounds total

    Wyssan’s Wildform (for good measure)
    TG make 18 attacks, adding 3 for regular PF
    21 attacks = 10.5 hits = 8.75 wounds (Better AS reduction)

    Wyssan’s Wildform + They’re Everywhere! (because why not)
    18 + 3 attacks
    21 attacks = 7 regular hits = 5.83 regular wounds + 3.5 auto poison wounds = 9.3 wounds (better AS reduction)

    ALL 3 buffs!
    18+6 attacks
    24 attacks = 8 regular hits = 6.66 regular wounds + 4 poison wounds = 10.66 wounds (better AS reduction)

    As you can see, even against mere T4 troops, poison wins out as the better non-magic buff (if only slightly). As you begin to climb the Toughness ladder, the poisoned attacks will outshine Primeval Roar more and more. What this all means, is that Primeval Roar really needs to be used on a turn where you have a good number of units in combat. The best usage of Primeval Roar is probably going to be units of Kroxigors or big blocks of skrox. In fact, you need to build your list around the roar to make it really effective. I’d suggest for your core, 2 units of 32skinks with 4 krox, 6 wide skinks and really deep. Ram them into the enemy and do your roar, and hopefully also get some Wyssan’s Wildform and/or Hand of Glory off to make your Krox more resilient so that they can all strike. Really the Kroxigor have the most valuable attacks, so that’s how I’d use this buff. Or rather, if I were building a kroxigor-heavy list, I might include a troglodon for the lulz.

    Hmm, I have one final idea for some mathhammer…

    3 krox attacking WS4 T4 guys (perhaps MC)

    Regular
    9 attacks + 1.5 regular PF
    10.5 attacks = 5.25 hits = 4.375 wounds

    Primeval Roar
    9 attacks + 3 from PF
    12 attacks = 6 hits = 5 wounds

    Hand of Glory (adding either 2 or 3 to WS)
    9 attacks + 1.5 regular PF
    10.5 attacks = 7 hits = 5.83 wounds

    So again, one of our more available buffs is actually better, not to mention increasing the Kroxigors’ weapon skill will have the added benefit of making them harder for the opponent to hit. The value of this can’t be understated, as the more your guys survive, the more damage they come back with. If primeval roar had a few extra little added perks, such as +1 WS, +1 Initiative, +1 to hit, +1 strength in that bubble (to all units, not just those with PF), then I think you’d really have to consider the trog as a serious option. It would still be one use, but when you popped that buff, the enemy would sure feel it. Of course, that just means it would be sniped out at range by a cannon or something all the quicker. The oracle on top should also have a ward save.

    Alright, so there it is, the entire book reviewed! I think the army is overall about on par with what it was before, although perhaps some of the extreme builds have been reigned in a bit. I think combat lists can now be a lot more effective due to the easy access to Wildform and the awesomeness of High Magic. I really can’t wait to use Walk Between Worlds, that’s something the enemy must dispel pretty much every time, and allows you to be tricky with key units, like the stegadon, helping to ensure it gets those perfect charges off. The Slann got toned down a bit, but just glancing at my old tooled-up party Slann, he was 515 points with all those disciplines, where my new Slann with his max disciplines is at 465, a good 50 points cheaper. Sure, he won’t do as much in terms of raw power now, but I think he’s still got some tools to bring extra dice, and he’s also now the most versatile caster in the game. Our core on the surface got weaker, due to skinks losing Ld6 and skrox now being less awesome against monsters and other monstrous things. Predatory fighter, on the other hand, is a nice little rule that can produce random spikes of massive damage. Special is absolutely loaded with good choices, and the basties and rippers are very interesting and well-costed new units. And the good old Stegadon got flat-out better, now being able to use the skink Initiative and get D3 wounds on impact hits all while getting cheaper. Even a nice unit of 4 razordons is tempting to me now, they are much more reasonably costed.
     
    Wazz and Scalenex like this.
  7. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    Part VII - The Lore of High Magic ***********************************************
    One thing you'll notice is High Magic has two signature spells, making Loremaster an almost automatic choice if you pick this lore (it gives you 4 extra spells). Loremaster was previously a 25ss Discipline for the Slann, but at only 17.5ss now for Loremaster of High Magic, I can't ever see myself not going that route if I want High Magic. My discussion of the Lore will typically reflect the fact that it is on a Slann with Focus of Mystery.

    Lore Attribute - Contemplations
    If a spell from the Lore of High Magic is successfully cast by a Wizard from Warhammer: Lizardmen, the caster can choose to forget that spell at the end of his Magic phase. At the end of the Magic phase, the Wizard must immediately generate a replacement spell from any of the spell lores he can normally use for each spell forgotten in this manner; generate the spell in the normal way. If the Wizard chooses to generate a spell from a different lore, that newly generated spell will always use that spell lore's attribute. It is also possible that the Wizard might generate the same spell he just forgot, or one he forgot in previous turns (for whatever reason).

    This is an extremely powerful lore attribute. Now you can build your own lore! How about an extra cast of Wyssan's Wildform? Or maybe you want the miasma from Shadow? 1+ armor saves getting you down? Have some Searing Doom! This lore attribute rewards planning. You have to look across the field and decide what you are going to need in the next turn or even later in the game. If they're bearing down on you with heavy armor, grab Searing Doom and hang back, by all means. Or maybe you're going on offense? Grab those combat buffs and charge ahead. The key is not to think of this attribute as a way to totally replace High Magic with an assortment of other lores, that's not a realistic expectation. You just need to think of this as a way to cast out some early damage spells and replace them with a few spells that will be useful later in the game. But even grabbing one key spell in place of a damage spell that you won't use again is excellent. You also have the potential to roll up your favorite spell from your chosen lore, and choose it instead of the signature spell.

    Let's take a look at this High Magic...

    Signature Spell - Drain Magic
    Range 18" - Cast on 7+/14+
    Can be cast on any friend or foe, and has a range of 18". All hexes, augments, and remains in play spells affecting the target unit immediately come to an end. The boosted version hits all units (friend and foe) within 18".


    Starting things off very interesting, aren't they? If you were just rolling up four High Magic spells, you would probably not take this all that often, because it is very situational. Some armies lean heavily on buffing their troops, while others rely on debuffing their opponents, and in those cases this is another nice tool for winning the buffing and debuffing war. It is really cheap to cast as well, and it can be a lot cheaper to cast than the casting cost of whatever spell you are getting rid of. This makes it good from a spell economy standpoint. It can also help turn the tide if your opponent got one of his key spells off in his phase, basically allowing you another chance to dispel. It is extremely situation dependent, but in the right circumstances, this could be one of those spells that the opponent "must stop". To me, an effective magic phase is built by having multiple spells that are "must stops". Alternatively, if your opponent has shut down your magic phase, and you don't think you'll need this spell later, you could always throw 1 or 2 dice at it to cast it uselessly, if only to substitute out another spell. But really, most of the time I see myself hanging on to this one "just in case".

    Signature Spell - Soul Quench
    Range 18" - Cast on 8+/16+
    Basic magic missile that does 2D6 str4 or 4D6 str4 to a target within 18".


    This is a good solid magic missile, and while the range is a bit sub-par, you can correct its deficiencies with the Arcane Vassal rule on your Skink Priests (or Troglodons). This one is a two-dicer most likely. There's really not too much to say about a basic magic missile, other than the fact that you can give it a real jolt of extra power if you are focusing on depleting a single unit. There might be a time when you can use the boosted version to totally obliterate a unit that would cause a lot of panic checks nearby. In many cases, however, this is a prime candidate for a spell that you can cast on two dice, your opponent allows to go through, you clear a little chaff unit, and then you get to pick a new spell. Not a bad deal at all.

    1. Apotheosis
    Range 18" - Cast on 5+/10+
    This is an augment spell that targets a single model within 18". The model regains a single lost wound or can be boosted so the model regains D3 wounds. The model healed also gains the Fear special rule until the start of the caster's next magic phase, regarless of power level.


    This is yet another great spell that will see a lot of use. When the battle lines meet, you'll often have a Stegadon, Bastilodon, Kroxigor, Salamander/Razordon, or even an Oldblood or Scarvet hero that could use a free wound. You've got a pretty decent chance of rolling a 6 on two dice, which means the boosted version will likely be worth the risk if you're really trying to bail out one of your monsters. Maybe one of your priests took a wound from a miscast? The lower version will fix him up, so you only need to roll a 3+. Healing the Slann or a saurus foot-slogger will also give that unit fear, which might come into play once in a blue moon, though in later rounds (when this spell will see the most usage) you might have taken out the BSB, which could lead to an absolutely crucial failed enemy fear test. This one I see as a spell I will absolutely keep in reserve, as it could make a game winning difference by keeping a key monster alive. It could come into play earlier in the game as well, if a cannon wounds but fails to kill a big beastie.

    2. Hand of Glory
    Range 18" - Cast on 5+/10+
    Another augment spell with a range of 18". The target's Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Initiative, or Movement (caster's choice) is increased by D3 until the start of the caster's next magic phase. The boosted version increases all 4 statistics by D3.


    This one is an amazing buff, and fairly cheap to cast. Much like Apotheosis, it can fairly reliably be cast on 2 dice at the boosted level. This spell will almost always have a useful reason to cast, and it "fixes" a ton of deficiencies of the army. Even on the first turn of the game, an enemy unit might be just within range of your Ancient Stegadon's giant blowpipes, but maybe it has moved, is at long range, and takes the multishot penalty? Not to worry, just cast the lower version of this and at worst, you'll get that one extra point of BS that you need. Or maybe you want to make sure your giant bow has a good chance of tagging a monstrous cav model? Maybe you moved your blowpipe skirmishers and they are now at long range, so they can't double-fire? This spell can fix all of that. But wait, there's more! Being able to buff up your weapon skill and initiative is extremely useful in close combat, especially with a Bastiladon around giving you +1I already. Even the slow as molasses saurus have a chance of striking first with this spell! The weapon skill and initiative buffs are absolutely amazing, and become yet another "must dispel" for the enemy once close combat has started. I wouldn't trade this spell for anything really. The movement boost takes a little more planning, as you have to imagine where you will want your unit to move NEXT turn. But even a couple inches bonus helps you get off that crucial charge, if you anticipate your enemy will move up on his next turn. Absolutely a golden spell, though if you read the rest of my army book review, you are probably tired of hearing me expound on its virtues.

    3. Walk Between Worlds
    Range 24" - Cast on 8+/16+
    This is an augment, targeting a single unengaged friendly unit within 24". The target gains the Ethereal special rule until the end of the phase, and can immediately move up to 10" (or 20" on boosted version) as if it were in the Remaining Moves sub-phase.


    Yet another excellent spell that I will always hang on to! Getting a free 10 inch move is an extremely powerful effect, and the casting value is pretty low for how good this spell is. In the early game, this can push your Salamander forward to firing position, essentially allowing you to have him within 8 inches of the opponent's deployment zone before your first shooting phase! It just gets better from there, as it helps you really outmaneuver your opponent, helping you control the movement phase. In the majority of cases, this becomes yet another "must dispel" for your opponent. The generous 24 inch casting radius is also wonderful, and allows you to pull off some really sneaky tricks. This is one of those spells that you have to always keep in the back of your mind as you assess the battlefield, because there is almost always a juicy target for it. This spell is amazing.

    4. Tempest
    Range 30" - Cast on 12+
    This is a direct damage spell allowing you to place the large round template anywhere within 30" of the Wizard, it then scatters D6 inches. All models hit suffer a Strength 3 hit (or strength 4 if the unit has the Fly special rule). If a unit suffers any unsaved wounds from this spell, it suffers a -1 on all To Hit rolls (shooting and close combat) until the start of the caster's next Magic phase (units that don't roll to hit need to roll a 4+ before firing or else lose their shot).


    This one is a decent spell that I think many people are underestimating currenly. This one can plonk down on top of your enemy's horde of skaven slaves to make them less efficient tarpits, or target their infantry block that is about to charge next turn. To me, the damage is a nice little bonus but the main thing this does is it gives your opponent pause before he charges the affected unit. If he manages to charge, he'll have to worry about his -1 to hit penalty causing him to get dominated in the first round of combat. Maybe this causes him to hesitate on going "all in", thereby buying you another round of shooting and magic? I'd say this one is another candidate for being swapped out, if your enemy isn't really packing much in the way of infantry blocks. That said, with the range on this as well as the ability to channel it through a skink priest, you should be able to find a target to make use of this before you swap it out for something else. High Elves and Empire probably will really hate this spell, as it makes a mess of T3 infantry blocks.

    5. Arcane Unforging
    Range 24" - Cast on 13+
    Direct Damage spell with a range of 24" that targets a single enemy model (even a character in a unit). The target suffers a single Wound on a dice roll greater than or equal to the model's unmodified armor save (models without an armor save cannot be wounded). No armour saves allowed against this hit. Next, regardless of whether you wound or not, the target must reveal all the magic items possessed (if any). Next, randomize which item is to be affected. On a roll of a 2+, that item is destroyed, and cannot be used for the rest of the game. This has no effect on magic items that are mounts, magic bound items that have miscast during the game, and any "one use" magic items that have already been used during the game. These are to be excluded when randomly selecting an item.


    This spell is yet another "must dispel" for most armies. Yet again, it can be cast through a skink priest to give you that little bit of extra range. Many armies have those highly priced items that are well worth destroying if you can. Banner of the World Dragon comes to mind in the High Elf army, as it seems to now be the package deal when you take a unit of White Lions. This spell makes me sad that we lost the Bane Head, because it would be very easy to BSB snipe on turn 1 with this. Even still, most people equip their BSB with a very high armor save or a ward save, and very little else. The odds are good that this spell will score a wound and THEN pull an item off of that guy. Got a monstrous cav unit with a scary magic banner? This spell can knock a wound off the unit and destroy that magic banner. Maybe your opponent was foolish enough to put a 100 point item on his Lord... hit him with this spell and wait for the tears. This spell is one of those that attacks the enemy's plans, which Sun Tzu always said was the best thing to do. This spell will probably shift the meta a bit away from 1+ rerollable armor saves toward ward saves instead, much like the old metal snipe spell did in 7th edition. With the BSB as crucial to the army as he is currently, I get the feeling this spell will almost always be a "must dispel". If you're able to cast this early in the game, you might consider exchanging it for something more beneficial to close combat. This would be a good spell even without the single Searing Doom hit, but as it stands it is excellent.

    6. Fiery Convocation
    Range 24" - Cast on 19+
    Remains in play, Fiery Convocation is a direct damage spell with a range of 24". Every model in the target unit takes a Strength 4 hit with the Flaming Attacks special rule. At the end of every subsequent Magic phase, every model in the target unit suffers a Str4 hit with the Flaming Attacks special rule.


    Here's the big boy, and boy can it be powerful. This one punishes those people who take giant units or "deathstars" more than anyone else. A block of 50 takes 50 hits, simple as can be. Also note that this spell doesn't allow Look Out Sir, so even characters will take a hit here or there, possibly scoring you a lucky wound. To put this in perspective, hitting a unit of 30 with this spell is like hitting it with a magic missile doing 8.5xD6 hits. Against a unit of 20, it's a mere 6D6 magic missile... wait that is still amazing! If your opponent pulls up to the table with a deathstar of any description, just smile, move the Slann out behind his Temple Guard (out of template range, but within Look Out Sir range), march a skink priest forward, and then chuck 6 dice at this spell. If it goes off irresistably, your opponent is going to cry as you roll an enormous amount of dice and his unit evaporates. But it doesn't end there, because once this spell goes off, it stays in play unless the opponent attempts to dispel it in his own magic phase. At best, he can hope to generate at least 6 power dice to make sure he gets rid of the spell, which is a 19+. If he can get rid of it, then your dispel dice should be more than enough to shut down his whole magic phase. But... if he rolls 4 or fewer power dice he is in for another round of punishment. You can't scroll away a remains in play spell that is active. Worse, during the next LM casting phase, he is faced with the decision again as to whether he wants to remove the remains in play spell or attempt to hamper your own casting. If nothing else, you might have a phase where you have 6 dice or more and your opponent has 5 or fewer. Even if the spell doesn't go off irresistably, he will need to burn his scroll or beat your casting roll at a disadvantage. This is worth casting if the enemy has a very high value unit that is key to his battle line. This is probably not worth casting at a block of skaven slaves, for example, even though it might be tempting. Though if they have 100 slaves in a block, then you have my blessing. You'd have to roll to wound in several batches, because you probably don't have that many dice (should kill 67 of them, roughly). Bottom line, this spell will render an opponent's large block fairly ineffective, and also ruin his next magic phase (unless he abandons the unit). No matter the circumstance, once you pop this spell off, it is safe to trade it for something else, since you've already ruined the best target unit for the spell. It will still remain in play, even if you forget the spell while it is still active. Better pack your Soul of Stone... and don't forget your Arcane Vassal will take a hit when you miscast through him as well, so be a kind Slann and throw him an Apotheosis next turn.

    Well, that should wrap up the High Magic, let me hear your thoughts on everything!
     
    Wazz and Scalenex like this.
  8. HoverBoy
    Ripperdactil

    HoverBoy New Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    So is this once per game or just single shot?
     
  9. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

    One shot per phase, can always use it to stand and shoot.
     
  10. mcsheehy
    Jungle Swarm

    mcsheehy New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Hey Caneghem
    I would like to congratulate you on your excellent review of the New Lizardmen!

    Being a new Lizzy player (or old, was my first army back in 2nd ed ;))
    Anyway long story short, I am looking to start my lizzies afresh and am looking to take in as much information as possible!
    I will be playing mainly friendly games (even though they bring the cheesiest lists imaginable) and a few competitive. I was wondering if I could have your opinions on what I should buy next? :)
    I currently have 80 Saurus, an Oldblood/Scar-vet from 2nd edition and one from 4th, a Salamander and about 20 skinks and a Bastiladon with engine. I will be aiming to play at 2500pts and wondering what I should be looking at purchasing next in the new army line up :)
    Any help would be much appreciated!

    Thank you
    Chris
     
  11. The Red Devil
    Troglodon

    The Red Devil Defender of Hexoatl Staff Member

    Messages:
    683
    Likes Received:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    You have done some fine work with this review Caneghem!

    I will sticky it in this forum for now, and in a few weeks when things calm down, Ill move it to be sticked on the strategy forum.

    Also, if anyone is interested there is seven pages with comments in the old thread as well:
    http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12231

    Edit:
    Actually got lost between the other stickies so Ill just leave it as a normal thread for now until we move it to the strategy forum.
     
  12. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Excellent review, I've found it very informative. Thanks! :)
     
  13. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,691
    Likes Received:
    822
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    You've made me want to have every unit in my army. 2000 pts is not enough :jawdrop:
     
  14. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    A Slann with 20 Temple Guard are not a bad bet. Unless you're absolutely sure you don't want to play with the frog... he is still one of the best casters in the game as far as I'm concerned.

    Also having an Ancient Stegadon around is never a bad thing!
     
  15. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Time to play 2500 point games! Although it is still not enough.
     
  16. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Awesomeness, I'm glad to contribute something worth keeping stickied! I will eventually go back over it and add some color as well as try to clean up the formatting and make it a little easier to read.
     
  17. FavoredoftheOldOnes
    Terradon

    FavoredoftheOldOnes Member

    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Awesome, awesome, awesome! Caneghem you have done a superb review of our new army book. Even before reading this thread I was already well pleased with the new book overall but after reading this I am even more pleased. You really have put things into great perspective and cleared up any questions I had. Not to mention, my mind is now swirling with ideas and strategies all because of this awesome review you have done. Once again great job and thanks :D
     
  18. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Took me about a week, but it never really felt like "work". I always obsess over every detail of a new book, so I figured I'd share that with everyone this time. Glad you enjoyed it!
     
  19. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    4,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    I might eventually get around to supplying some illustrations as well - no "Intellectual Property" issues here. With Bob its just "Property"
     
  20. pgarfunkle
    Saurus

    pgarfunkle Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Now with Rares

    Thanks for the review Caneghem, very useful reading!

    I've got my first game with the new book tomorrow and while my army will not change significantly due to the units I currently have available but it has definitely given me some combos and tactics for the game that I did not pick up on while reading the book.

    Thanks again
     

Share This Page