I am working on a updated dual Carno tactica for "9th Age warhammer" fantasy if you like dual Carno in 9th age not only is it a competitive list but myself and friends have won grand tournaments with 50+ players using dual carno. once tactica is up to a presentable level it will be posted and a link will be added here. This Tactica is based on my personal experience with Carnos in tournaments i hope everyone finds it helpful! This is the first Tactica I have ever written here and there is a bit of a story to "Why" I felt I should write it, after all my English grammar is I swear too much and spelling is worse. The story goes through my experience at last month’s regional tournament that I was at. Anyway most people may not be interested but for those who are, it is at the end of the Tactica. Carno = "Anti Hammer" First thing i want to go into is how I see the Carno. Carnos are "Anti Hammers" with 5 S7 attacks they eat heavy cav, and whatever is left the rider can easily deal with. Do not under estimate their abilities; I have had my Carno eat 4 juggernauts in 1 combat. D3 wounds do A LOT of damage, do not underestimate it. Now to start getting into tactics I like to use the Carno for. Going from simplest to most creative: A Carno does not have one use, it can be used for many things both offensive and defensive oddly enough. "Cowboy" 1) A Cowboy on a Carno can be used same as you do a normal cowboy, it’s more expensive but it also does a lot more damage. "Support Hammer" 2) They work VERY well as a supporting Hammer to a Saurus anvil due to their S7 Thunderstop and Terror, with Blood Roar you can reduce the enemy unit to WS1 quite often, and that means your Saurus are hitting on 3's and getting hit on 5's. Which is something us Lizardmen are not use to "The Jackhammer" 3) Next is what I like to call the Jackhammer! If you can get 2 or 3 combats lines up in a row, then you can get the Carno to charge one of the flanks, then you have yourself the most beautiful thing aboutto happen. as it’s your combat you decide where to start, so Start with the unit on the flank that the Carno charged, theoretically with a Carno in the flank you should be able to make him break, and most likely with thunder stop the Carno will have done the most wounds and it will flee over into the next unit, now you pursue with your Carno, and hit the next unit, WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE THE COMBAT FOR! This means that the Carno will attack a SECOND TIME in the next combat and if you set it up PERFECTLY then you will massacre the second unit and run into the third! And attack a third time. "Terror" 4) Terror is your friend, especially with Blood Roar you can force most Ld 8 units to flee just by charging them even if you know you are not going to make the charge. if you get them to flee you once, you can then charge them again with some taradons and as they are already fleeing the only thing they can do is flee more! And if you plan it well enough you can get a unit to run right off the table. It is a bit complicated at the start but it gets easier to do once you get used to how and when to use it. "Terror Advanced class" 5) Now with the terror you can also do a fun trick which works well against stuff that you have trouble killing i.e. empire knights that all have a 1+ save. Before you force them to take the terror tests, put a unit of flyers behind them, so if when they fail they are forced to flee through your unit forcing a dangerous terrain test. I forced a unit of 12 Brettonians to do that and 3 died, that’s one less rank for them. And if you really think you can force them to flee then you can put the flyers facing the other way so after the unit flees then the flyers charge again; most likely running them off the table or overrunning them considering they are M 10 with swift stride. Important note with the Terror tactics if you charge, and the enemy fails there test and flees remember to redirect your charge to the next unit and see if you can get them to flee to! "BSB & General on Carno" 6) This is personally how i love to play, a lot of people think its useless, but now with our Rippers, having a 18" BSB and leadership bubble for your frenzy tests IS YOUR FRIEND! Do not under estimate how much area you can cover with a 18" bubble, and with M7 you can easily boost the leadership or give BSB support anywhere on the table easily. "Sneaky trick for 1" free moment and better cannon defense" 7) As a monster the carnosour can pivot for free as much as it wants, and now as it has a long base this means that if you deploy it facing sideways at the end of your deployment zone, on your turn pivot it on the spot to face forwards, and you just gained 1" of free moment because you have not "use any of your movement" you just pivoted which you can do as much as you want! also facing the wide side of your carno at the enemy is good as it makes it much easier for enemy cannons to overshoot/undershoot you as they have only a 50mm deep area to hit instead of a 100mm . "Target Saturation" 8) What I mean by this is, if you have only 1 carno, EVERYTHING will shoot at that carno and kill it. but if you have a carno and 2 stegadons for example, shooting will start to get divided between them, and there is a much higher chance that all of them survive where as with only 1 carno chances that it survives something like a Dwarven or Empire Gunline is very slim, but the more targets you give the enemy the more they divide fire, and more often then not everything will make it in to combat missing 1 or 2 wounds instead of 1 thing just dieing outright. Thunder-stomp important thing most people forget 9) One thing i have seen alot of people forgetting or miss understanding is when stomp happens. Stomp has the "Always strikes last" special rule which means that it goes at the same time as great weapons NOT AFTER! So if your Carno gets destroyed by a unit with great weapons the carno still gets his Stomp. which can make a huge difference to combat resolution. Because of this i run my oldblood with a great weapon, so when i get into challenges just to make extra sure that i get the 5 estra wounds for combat resolution, my carnos thunder-stop and my oldblood go at the same time. (remember in a challenge you can do up to 5 extra wounds but only in the same initiative stage, so if the oldblood kills him at I3 the always strike last thunder-stop will not get to hit even if the oldblood only did 1 extra wound, you loss those extra D6 hits. "Mitigating Cannons" This is a very important element to keeping your Carnos alive, to anyone considering running a list with carnos i recommend you read this http://www.lustriaonline.com/thread...to-fight-cannons-updated-with-responds.13048/ Especially A Steaming Kroak's Post he gives a lot of good tips of what you can do. "The Mind Games" Last thing i want to explain is not how Carnos "play" but how the Affect the enemy mentally. They are everything magnets, the enemy will poo themselves and want to kill them as fast as possible. Think of it almost like Frenzy but for the enemy player. This can be used to your advanced because even the most experienced players can get this tunnel vision. This is ideal for your fast units, like Rippers, you can get them behind enemy lines and start causing havoc because all the enemy can think about is trying to kill your Carnos. The next thing he knows you have cleared out most of his supporting units and you have 2 nice melee blocks arriving on his front door untouched. (i know it sounds simple, or almost too good to be true, but it happens, my first match of the tournament I won because of this, my Carnos did nothing but draw fire and hide and take turns getting hit) In closing i would like to say that each and every one of the things a Carno can do, another unit can do them better. the reason why i still argue that a Carno is competitive is because it can do ALL of the above. Last but not least, the history behind why I felt I needed to write this Tactica. Carnosaurs are one of those things we have had in our books for a while, and last month I went to my regional tournament and out of 100 qualified players, there was 20 Lizardmen. There was a total of 2 Carnosours. Both of them mine in my romantic Dual Carno list... Every time I placed my tray with my army on the next table my opponent smile with joy and giggled as if I had just gifted him the game, and he was already calculating by how much he could beat me so that he would end up at the first table. *Thoughts I was having up until now in the tournament: I am a lone Lizard in my local club, and my team as well; I have not met another decent lizardmen player since 6th ed. So right now I was so happy to see other lizards I was chatting to them in between every match trying to learn from them. (I have played A LOT of warhammer but you can never learn too much) and every single one said that I was just begging to get brutalized showing up to a tournament with a Carno, let alone 2! so I started to get worried and believe them, "What if they really are crap and I just have been so in love with them I never realized it"* Now what happened in this tournament is what made me decided to step up and defend the Carno in all its glory to my fellow Generals of our wonderful race. I felt I did fairly well, I had some great games, some decent games and 1 not so great game (the enemy's only defense was to waste time, we spent 6 hours playing 2 turns... eventually the arbitrators said we would both be disqualified if we did not finish the game, and the only way I could get him to do that is if I gifted him a minor victory.) Anyway I'm rambling on, The moment of truth, I made friends with a lot of the other lizardmen players so at the awards ceremony I was hanging out and chatting with them, and they were all teasing me and joking around saying that I would win the "Spoon of Shame" (worst player), or that I should win it with such a stupidly romantic army list. Then the creepy guy with the beard spoke.... He said: Best Lizardmen general goes to!..... ZAGREEKIE!!!!!! (i finished 14th out of 100 qualified players, my team walked away with 1st, 3rd, and best army overall it was a good day) I don't know who was more shocked honestly, me or the other Lizardmen players. So I go up, take the prize, all that stuff and as I am walking back to my seat (Ego expanding RAPIDLY) I ask the other lizardmen players “So what do you have to say NOW about Carnos! I bet I’ll see a lot more of this next year" *insert snide chuckle* They all responded... "No... It’s a bad list and Carnos suck and are not competitive..." 0.o o.0 o.o -.- So the only logic I can come up with is that because so few people use them, no one ever thought "how" to use them. If you did read all of this Tactica and Story behind why I wrote it thank you And if you did not and just read the basic Tips and Tricks I REALLY hope that you try them out a bit and maybe next year less people will laugh at a dual Carno list. This is my first tactica i really hope it was helpful and i will go updating it with other uses that i come up with for them or that other people have come up with please! There is no better cause then making dinosaurs more useable!!!!!!