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AoS Dracothion's Tail - revisited

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Tokek, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Tokek
    Cold One

    Tokek Active Member

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    With the new FAQ for the General's Handbook we now seem to have a rule for Dracothion's tail which is both easily understood and functional.

    Instead of setting up a unit from this battalion on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up waiting to appear at Kuoteq’s command as a reserve unit. You can set up one reserve unit waiting to appear at Kuoteq’s command for each unit from the same battalion you set up on the battlefield.

    In your hero phase, you can set up one or more of the reserve units waiting to appear at Kuoteq’s command on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy units and wholly within 18" of Kuoteq. However, each reserve unit set up on the same turn must be a different unit chosen from a different warscroll – Kuoteq cannot command the same unit to appear more than once in the same turn. Reserve units that [appeared at Kuoteq’s command/are set up on the battlefield for the first time] cannot move in the following movement phase. Any reserve units waiting to appear at Kuoteq’s command which are not set up on the battlefield before the start of the fourth battle round are slain
    This is very interesting and because it works quite differently to any normal form of summoning it has some unique things we can do - plus some limitations.

    So limitations first:
    • Tricks to increase the spell range of a Slann have no effect on this rule
    • 'Wholly within' means no conga-lines out
    • Only one of each unit type per turn - although really that is also a normal summoning restriction
    • No picking units at the time - only the ones you set aside can come in this way
    • You must still deploy at least half your units - this is not a null deploy list or even close to it
    • Better bring units in by the end of turn 3
    New tricks however
    • Totally reliable so long as your Slann lives, no rolls to fail
    • The battalion can contain any Seraphon unit so you can keep anything off the table - even Kroak
    • Units can be in battalions and have those special rules
    • Summoned units can be warlord etc
    • Not using up any of your spellcasting ability and no real limit on how many units come in
    This really does feel like it could have some really solid deployment shenanigans and it is of course a one-drop list.

    Just as a proof of concept we could run a new implementation of the old Shadowstrike + Kroak

    Lord Kroak (450)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    Units
    15 x Saurus Knights (300) -Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    4 x Razordons (160)
    Battalions Firelance Starhost (110)
    Dracothion's Tail (60)
    Scenery Balewind Vortex (100)

    Now Saurus Knights are not ripperdactyls but 15 of them all buffed up are a credible threat to most things and to an extent the purpose is to make the opponent turtle up so Kroak can do his work unhindered. If you can find Mystical Terrain they are actually terrifying.

    Is anyone else really tempted to get onboard the Dracothion express?
     
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  2. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Hmmmm... I'll have to think about that.
    I will post one or two ideas soon I think.
     
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  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Ok here is one list just to discuss, 200 points left for summoning or something.


    Allegiance: Seraphon

    Leaders
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Vast Intellect
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (280)
    - Artefact: Blade of Realities
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact: Coronal Shield
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    Skink Priest (80)
    - Priestly Trappings
    - Artefact: Prism of Amyntok

    Battleline
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances
    - Seraphon Battleline
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances
    - Seraphon Battleline
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances
    - Seraphon Battleline

    Units
    3 x Terradon Riders (120)
    - Sunleech Bolas
    5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)
    5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)

    Battalions
    Dracothion's Tail (60)
    Firelance Starhost (110)
    Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

    Total: 1800 / 2000
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 83
     
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  4. Tokek
    Cold One

    Tokek Active Member

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    You definitely can layer battalions but I feel like it is a trap. Over 300 points not going into models seems like a lot.

    What was your thinking, I probably just missed the combo value in that.
     
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  5. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    My idea was Hammer and Anvil. The Knights will be in the fight relatively quickly, and the Shadowstrike can attack from the flank or rear. The enemy is forced to make a decision: kill the Knights (they can do quite some damage because they are glass cannons, and you can even port them out and let them charge again using LoSaT causing mortal wounds) or kill the flyers. They cannot do both and either way they might be stuck in melee with one of the two and unable to properly attack the others.

    No clue if it would work, it is mainly a fun list.
     
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  6. darren watson
    Kroxigor

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    I was using Kroak in Draco tail before and it's definitely gotten better!

    I think dropping those Razordons and swapping the cold one saurus to a scar vet on carno means you can make use of his bloodroar on all those units taking battleshock tests from Kroak :)

    I'm looking at this post FAQ

    Lord Kroak (450)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carno (240)
    Skink Starpriest or 2 Razordons (80)
    Units
    10 x Saurus Knights (200) -Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)
    Battalions Firelance Starhost (110)
    Dracothion's Tail (60)
    Scenery Balewind Vortex (100)

    The question is which guy is best to be the general, rerolls or Vast Intellect..
     
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  7. Magnetude
    Skink

    Magnetude Member

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    I'd likelto add some additiinal points

    * Its important to note that you are no longer restricted to only summoning SAURUS units.

    * You can bring maxed size units (like 40 warriors) and reliabily get them on the front line for your opponnen to cut through

    * If the enemy has a strong assassination potential you no llnger lose half your army if yiur slann gets sniped. Yiu can just get them all on the board in a onedrop.

    Sorry for spelling as i am on my phone
     
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  8. darren watson
    Kroxigor

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    You could drop the Starpriest and Chamo Skinks for a Starseer.. Then you'd have everything you need for an optimised Kroaknado as Kroak could be the general for the guaranteed rerolls and you'd still have Curse of Fate from the seer.. Hmmm I like that
     
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  9. darren watson
    Kroxigor

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    Lord Kroak-General (450)
    Slann Starmaster-Incandescent Retrices (260)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer-Prism (160)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carno-Light of Dracotion (240)
    Starseer- (200)
    Units
    10 x Saurus Knights (200) -Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    Battalions Firelance Starhost (110)
    Dracothion's Tail (60)
    Scenery Balewind Vortex (100)

    Seems good
     
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  10. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Good points I missed that first one!
     
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  11. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    EXTREME glass cannon, but yeah, I see how it could do TONS of damage.
     
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  12. Xasto
    Razordon

    Xasto Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of potential damage indeed
     
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  13. Tokek
    Cold One

    Tokek Active Member

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    I think Darren may have nailed the Dracothion's Kroaknado list.

    Thinking more about it I believe a lot of the strength of the list is in keeping glass hammer units off the table until you can perfectly position them to do damage. The Seraphon who fit that bill the best for me are Salamanders and Razordons. Again with a list to illustrate:

    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Vast Intellect
    - Artefact : Incandescent Rectrices
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact : Light of Dracothion
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    - Artefact : Prism of Amyntok
    Skink Priest (80) - Priestly Trappings
    10 x Saurus Knights (200) -Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (100) -Blades
    4 x Razordons (160)
    4 x Salamanders (160)
    4 x Salamanders (160)
    3 x Skink Handlers (40)
    Skinks - boltspitters and Star Bucklers (60)
    Dracothion's Tail (60)
    Firelance Starhost (110)

    That leaves 250 points to summon - for example a unit each of Salamanders and Razordons. Or perhaps a Balewind for all the tricks that has and just one additional unit.

    I think you would normally deploy; Slann, Starpriest, skinks, 2 x small units of Knights, razordons. That would leave the other 6 units off-table being the Astrolith, Scar-vet, large knights unit, salamanders x 2 and handlers. This does not have the mortal wound output of a Kroak list but 8 (or potentially 11 depending on what you summon) attacks from Salamanders at Rend -2 is pretty nasty and spreading it around can make for some mortal wound follow-ups. The Knights and Razordons are decent crowd control units for hordes.

    Once everything is down you can teleport across the Razordons to join in the fun. On subsequent turns that is all fast enough to move by itself so revert to teleport for maximum buffs or objective grabbing etc.

    I am not sure it really has enough screening for when it meets another one-drop list that wins the dice roll to go first - two units of knights and one of skinks might be enough to keep something like KO at arms length but it would need testing on the table. I think if you expect a massive close-up alpha-strike then you need to deploy pretty much everything just in case.

    Also, although it is a one-drop list you do have the option of deploying units individually and as you have 6 null-deploys you get to see pretty much what your opponent is up to before you have to put a single model on the table. Fundamentally I think that what you pay for with this battalion is the ability to out-deploy an opponent rather than outfight them.
     
  14. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Good points!
     
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  15. darren watson
    Kroxigor

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    Posted a Draco tail ideas in army lists. So much shenanigans to be had ☺
     
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  16. PJetski
    Saurus

    PJetski Member

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    This is a VERY interesting battalion...
     
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  17. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Hmmmm I just thought about this:
    Draco can contain any Seraphon units. And with the summoning restriction gone...
    What about using a deep striking Dread Saurian? What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to the other DS-Bomb lists (fully buff, then LoSaT towards the enemy)? Opinions?
     
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  18. Xasto
    Razordon

    Xasto Well-Known Member

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    The sheer amount of surprise on your opponent's face since you don't have to reveal what your summoning points will bring forth? :p

    Cuz for the bomb to really be scary I think the DS really needs all those buffs, so the only difference is that you're summoning him in range of your spellcasters, then buff him, then teleport him forward.
     
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  19. PJetski
    Saurus

    PJetski Member

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    How about a mortal wound bomb?

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Leaders
    Lord Kroak (450)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General: Vast Intellect
    - Artifact: Incandescent Retrices
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    - Prism of Amyntok
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    -Light of Dracothion
    Celestant-Prime (340)

    Units
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    1x Razordon

    Battalions
    Firelance Starhost (110)
    Dracothion's Tail (60)

    Scenery
    Balewind Vortex (100)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Allies: 340 / 400
     
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  20. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Pure cheese so I would probably not play it against friends.
    But yeah if you are going on a tournament you might want to try it.
     

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