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Tutorial End Times Magic: Primer and General Guidelines

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Scalenex, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    End Times Magic: The Basics


    According to Rules As Written, End Times magic cannot be required unless one side is playing an army or unit from Khaine: Book Two or if both players okay it. Assuming you are playing this, here are the basics. Then again, my local gaming store has decided to use every ET optional rule EXCEPT for End Times Magic in tournament play, so it might not catch on. I like theoryhammer, so I’m going to summarize the basic rules and what this means for list building and game play. Feel free to correct me if I come up with a conclusion that doesn’t stand to real-world testing.


    All Wizards of level 3 or higher have a bonus End Times spell for his lore(s) and Summon Arcane Fulcrum. End Times spells are difficult to cast, but cannot be dispelled

    Implications: This raises the value of Slann and Tehenhauin versus our level one and two casters. I’ll cover the individual spells later.


    If a wizard knows one spell of any lore normally, he knows ALL the spells now. If a wizard would have loremaster normally, then you can to re-roll failed castings of that lore on non-End Times spells that are below 15+ to cast.

    Implications: Even a lowly Skink gets all seven spells, you probably don’t ever want to bother shelling out the points to make a Skink level two. Tet gets to re-roll his failed castings which redeems him for not being level three. He still has a low points cost for everything he brings to the table.

    This means a WD Slann gets 56 spells to choose from Turn One. This also means that a Focus of Mystery Slann can swap out spells and then immediately get their lost High Magic spell back, gain seven spells from another lore and retain the ability to re-roll failed casting of most High Magic spells. I don’t know which one is better: Wandering Deliberations or Focus of Mystery. Much like Archie with the age old Betty versus Veronica question, there is no wrong answer. Even a vanilla lore Slann isn’t bad. You can get lore mastery on your favorite BRB lore (or Undeath if you’re weird like Scalenex) and not have to spend a single point on disciplines.

    Here’s another fun fact many people haven’t considered. If you have two Slann you can use Telepathic Confabulation to swap spells. Just like with Focus of Mystery Slann, neither Slann will actually lose a spell and they will gain an entire lore with each swap. Not sure if this optimal though. When one Slann can get so many spells, we have relatively little incentive to shell out the points for a dual Slann army.

    We are aren’t the only army to benefit from End Times magic, but our toads are certainly floating high with THREE unique ways to pick up gobs of extra spells for our wizard lords.


    Rolling a natural 1 or 2 on the dice will still cause a spell to auto-fail, but a wizard never suffers from broken concentration.

    Implications: This will create a small bias for all armies to favor casting several weak spells as opposed to a few nuke spells. Without the possibility of breaking concentration, this also means a level four wizard does not risk as much if they try dispel any enemy spell with relatively few dice. If your level four Slann fails to dispel the first enemy spell, you don’t have to switch to using your level one Skink to try to dispel stuff.


    Players roll 4d6 to generate power dice, there is now a 24 dice cap on total power and dispel dice. The defending player gets the highest two dice for dispel dice.

    Implications: Statistically, the defending player will have more proportionately more dispel dice than they did under the regular BRB system. This means on average fewer spells will be successfully cast. Weird huh?


    A Wizard can cast a spell twice in one magic phase if the spell is not an End Times spell, requires less than 15+ to cast, and the caster did not already fail casting that spell this phase.

    Implications: This will create a moderate bias for Wizards to spamming a few cheap spells rather than focusing on nuke spells. Obviously if a wizard fails to meet the required casting value, they fail, but this opens up enthusiastic rules debates (not on this thread please) about whether or not a spell is successfully cast if it is dispelled by the defending player. To avoid hassles midgame, work this out with the other player ahead of time. Whichever way it goes, it will be fair because both sides are constrained/assisted the same way.

    The loophole for boosted spells was closed for this rule. If you cast an augmented spell that required a 15+ or higher, you cannot cast the cheaper version later in the same phase.

    With an Engine of the Gods Arcane Configuration to the right lore, you can lower a 15+ spell to 14+ and potentially cast it multiple times. Candidates include augmented Amber Spear, Augmented Regrowth, Final Transformation, Chain Lightning, Purple Sun...Purple Sun!!!!!

    Power and dispel dice choices are somewhat random. After selecting a spell to cast, you roll a d6. The number rolled is the maximum number of power dice you can use. The defending player also rolls a d6, this is the maximum number of dispel dice he can use. Once committing to casting a spell, you are required to throwing one die at this.

    Implications: This creates an extreme bias towards casting a large number of cheap spells as opposed to a few nuke spells. Not everyone is good at doing math in their heads, but if you take the casting level of a spell, subtract the wizard level and then divide by the number of dice you are using, that is the average die roll you need. If the average die roll is over 3.5 that means you have less than a 50% chance of succeeding (barring double 6s).

    Lots of spells require 4 to 6 dice to have a reasonable chance of success. Does that mean you should never try to cast them? No. That just means you should try them with greater discretion. If you try a big money spell and get a poor d6 roll, just throw one die at the spell. With no broken concentration you aren’t out much if you do this. Besides, there is a silver lining. If you roll high enough to cast a 4+ dice spell, odds are at least 50% that your opponent will not be allowed to use enough dispel dice to stop you. You are increasing your risk of failure but lowering your risk of being blocked. End Times spells can't be dispelled at all.

    Half of the time, you will be the magic defender. Since you aren’t guaranteed to be able to use as many dispel dice as you’d prefer, items like Dispel Scrolls, the Scroll of Shieling, and Cube of Darkness will be even more valuable than in normal games.


    Magical Lodestones: all Mystical Monuments and Arcane Architecture add +2 to all channeling attempts for wizards within 6 inches

    Implications: This stacks with Harmonic Convergence. If you are playing the terrain placement system where players alternate placing pieces of terrain and you have a Slann with Harmonic Convergence, then you want to call dibs on placing any Magical Lodestone pieces. Place them where your Slann is likely to end up. If your Slann has Temple Guard, you probably want to place the Lodestone piece in the dead center of the table. If your Slann is solo, this is less important because of the spell Conjure Arcane Fulcrum.

    Every wizard of level three or higher gets Conjure Arcane Fulcrum, even Lord Kroak (not that he’d want to leave his Unbreakable Temple Guard to enter a fulcrum). It summons an arcane fulcrum within 6 inches of the caster and puts the caster on it even if they have a monstrous mount or otherwise have a large base but they cannot be joined by a unit.

    Arcane fulcrums act as buildings, providing Stubborn and Hard cover to the solo wizard occupant. It also bestows Immune to Psychology, immunity to multiple wounds, immunity to Stomps and Thunderstomps, and a 3+ Ward Save (not that it matters a lot for Slann) and acts a magical lodestone for the wizard in the building (but apparently not for other wizards near it).

    Assaults work like building assaults, but only one enemy model at a time can assault a wizard in an arcane fulcrum. With a Slann’s high number of wounds and myriad options for healing, a Slann is probably not going to be threatened by most attackers other than the 500-1000 point End Times character riding a monster and using a shared profile. If you can’t magic the crap out of said enemies, plop a big deep ranked unit of Steadfastness between your Arcane Fulcrum and any End Times mega-characters.

    In my opinion, as useful as arcane fulcrums are, I would not normally want a Slann to ditch his Temple Guard to occupy one, unless there were no mega-characters or monsters capable of threatening my Slann. It does provide a major option for solo Slann. It’s also the only ET spell with a fairly low casting difficulty, 12+, so it’s not just for Slann.

    If a garden variety enemy wizard is on an Arcane Fulcrum, you want to throw a Stegadon or Carnosaur at it. If the enemy wizard in question is a mega-character from the End Times, don’t bother assaulting it at all. Until we get our own monstrous combined profile End Times characters, we don’t have any single model that can threaten such a wizard. Also, if Malekith, Nagash, or whoever else is sitting on an Arcane Fulcrum, they are substantially less dangerous to you casting spells with +2 to channeling attempts than they would be if they were casting spells while smiting your troops with their overpowered magic weapons.

    Our End Times Spells

    Assuming a level 4 caster, if you are aiming for over a 50% success rate (barring IF) a 15+ needs 4 dice, 20+ needs 5 dice and 25 needs 6. If you like to play the long odds, you can make a go for the spells with 3, 4, or 5 dice respectively, but going below that, your odds of success are so low as to be laughable. Since you only have a 50% chance to be able to use 4 or more dice, that means you only have about a 25% chance to cast even the lightest ET spells. 25+ is almost impossible to cast. For better or worse, LM do not have access to any 25+ spells.

    If you can get over the difficult hurdle of casting an ET spell, it cannot be dispelled.

    High Magic: Deadlock 20+ to cast Hex with unlimited range. A single enemy wizard cannot channel, cast, or dispel until the start of the Deadlock caster’s next turn.

    Very nasty but your odds of getting enough dice to cast this are pretty low. Though with High Magic and the ability to reroll failure, you can probably get this off with 4 dice, it’s still risky both for whiffing your d6 power dice roll and for rolling IF. I wouldn’t try this unless you were fighting an extra potent wizard. Naturally this is a bad spell for us to be on the receiving end for given how mighty our spellcasters are.

    Fire: Withering Heat: 20+ for a potent Hex. It bestows flammable on the entire enemy army and lets flaming attacks re-roll to wound against the enemy army. All enemy charges, fleeing, and pursuit rolls and extra die and discards the highest. Not a bad spell, but I don’t think this is a particularly useful spell for LM players compared to the other 20+ spells. It works better if you can field a lot of L1 Fireball tossers which we can’t do, but I can see this synergizing with LM unless you are packing lots of Salamanders.

    Light: Enlightenment: 20+ hexes Forces of Destruction and augments Forces of Order. All Order units within 12 inches of the caster are Unbreakable. All Destruction units within 12 inches take a leadership test with 4d6 and suffers wounds equal to what they lose the test by. 4d6 is hard to pass, so this can take a toll on high Ld targets. Only good against Destruction though. That and the enemy has to be right within spitting distance of the Slann, so don’t count on this spell as your Plan A to defend your Slann bunker since your odds of being able to cast this are less than 50%.

    Beasts: A Murder of Crows: When I was reading the End Times books, I thought, “I sure hope we can be able to use the worst SOM Cataclysm spell in ET games!” My wish came true. 15+ to summon a large template that inflicts Strength 3 hits on models it passes over. Yay! Strength 3 hits! Sarcasm aside, this can hurt Elves…well, some Elves anyway. You can also safely cast this spell into your own melees since our front line fighters all have T4 or better.

    Metal: Meteoric Ironclad: This is one of the best SOM Cataclysm spells. A mere 15+ to augment a unit to have a 2+ Ward save. That’s nearly invincible Temple Guard. We don’t like to be fighting an enemy with this spell though. If you know your opponent is fond of Metal, consider the Blade of Realities, or just pray to the Old Ones they don't cast this successfully.

    Life: Storm of Renewal: Another SOM carryover. It’s 15+ to cast a beneficial vortex. It heals 2d6+1 wounds on any non-character unit it touches following the same guidelines for Regrowth. Note it’s hard to cast this spell into a melee without healing your enemy. This is useful to you if your unit’s models cost more per model than the enemy, otherwise it’s almost a liability. Good for Temple Guard almost regardless of who you are fighting because this lengthens Stubborn staying power. Not a huge threat when the enemies cast this because it is likely to help you too though you should try to remove this if the Vortex is going to an elite enemy fighting your cheap Core.

    Note that End Times has a lot of über characters and this spell specifically doesn’t affect characters so it’s a spell to cast into melee if you are tarpitting Nagash or someone similar.

    Heavens: Let the Four Winds Blow: Another SOM carryover, a 15+ unorthodox magic missile. It pushes up to four enemy units and/or magical vortexes 2d6 inches directly away from the caster and inflicts 2d6 Strength 3 hits if the target hits impassable terrain or bashes into another unit. If it hits another unit, both units take the hit.

    Unless the target is Skinks or something similar, the hits don’t really matter. What really matters is the ability to move the enemy (or nasty vortices) away from you. Given that we have lots of squishy Skinks and may or may not have a taste for vortices, this is a dangerous spell for our enemies to have.

    Shadow: Bridge of Shadows: Probably the best End Times spell. 15+ Augment that works like Walk Between Worlds only it lets unit potentially exit combat and there is no limit to how far the unit can be moved. Very useful for both positioning offensives and pulling doomed units out of the fire at the last minute.

    Death: Ashes and Dust: 15+ Magical Vortex with large template that is potentially devastating to low Ld units away from the BSB. Units passed over take a leadership test with a -3 penalty and suffer wounds equal to what they lost the check by.

    The situationally dangerous to both us and our foes. Even with their low leadership score, a block of 50 Skaven won’t give a rat pellet about this vortex, but it can wreak havoc on MSU armies.

    Undeath: Malediction of Nagash: Even if you don’t have any undead models to summon, it might be worth a High Magic Slann swapping in the Lore of Undeath for this spell alone. 20+ to cast so it will usually fail but this is a very nasty hex. ALL enemy units half their Strength (round up) till the start of the caster’s next magic phase. Whichever side of this spell you are on, this can turn the tide of a battle easily, since it can turn your Saurus units into mighty demigods or weakling kittens.

    Other Armies' End Times Spells

    Dark Magic: Oblivion: This is a very situational spell that is very hard to cast at 25+. Targets an Arcane Fulcrum and inflicts a Strength 10 hit on every model within six inches of said Fulcrum. On a 4+ it destroys the Arcane Fulcrum and auto-kills the wizard. With it’s high casting cost, you can take the calculated risk that the enemy elves will not be able to cast this. If you are paranoid, just don’t raise Arcane Fulcrums when facing an enemy wizard with Dark Magic.

    Vampires: The Army of Doom Keep: 25+ to summon a Wight King and unit of Grave Guard with a combined points value up to 300 points. Unlike most characters summoned, the Wight King gets to (has to) join the unit. Probably the least threatening 25+ End Times spell actually.

    Note, because this is from the Lore of Vampires and not the Lore of Undeath, Arkhan and Nagash do not get to summon 600 and 900 points units with this spell. They cast the vanilla version like everyone else.

    Nehekhara: Return of the Golden Age: This 20+ augment is a watered down version of the Lore of Nehekhara's SOM spell. All friendly undead models get +1 to their WS, Strength, and Initiative skills to the start of the caster’s next magic phase. In a pure TK army, this is pretty weak since it doesn't have the extra buffs to elite TK units the SOM spell had, but this synergizes well with elite Vampire Counts models in an Undead Legions army.

    Wild: Ruiner of the Wrought: 25+ spell that is devastating to many armies, but is almost meaningless against Lizardmen. All war machines in the enemy army take d3 Strength 10 hits and all buildings are destroyed on a 4+ inflicting 4d6 Strength hits on units in those buildings. Since I only put Skink Cohorts in buildings, that’s not that scary. A spell that probably will fail with at best a 50% chance of killing some of my expendable chaff. Help! Help!

    The Great Maw: The Great Maw Awakens: 20+ for what is essentially a large template Purple Sun by a different name, only you know, cheaper to cast because augmented Purple Suns were clearly not powerful enough before...

    Big Waaagh!: Raise Great Idol: 15+ to create an Idol of Gork within 18 inches of the caster. In addition to the normal effect (all units within 6 inches reroll failed charge distances) it allows greenskin units to re-roll failed to hit rolls and acts as a Magical Lodestone. Nasty to us if we can’t bring a buff or hex of our own to counteract their re-rolls.

    Little Waaagh!: Nikkit! Nikkit!: 15+ casting 24 inch direct damage snipes a character and inflicts d6 minus their own Toughness wounds with no armor save. The wounds aren’t scary but this spell destroys a random magic item carried. Actually worse than destroys. If they have an open slot in that magic item category, they get to steal it.

    Stealing magical items is not as bad as it sounds. Most Goblin wizards of level 3 or higher will be carrying an Arcane item, so they can’t really rob our Slann. They are too pansy to make much use of a magic weapon and can’t wear magic armor. So basically think of the item as destroyed. Even a Goblin Shaman with the Blade of Realities is pretty wimpy.

    Skaven Plague: The Great Red Pox: Spell is 25+ to cast so it will probably fail, but if it succeeds, you will feel it. It’s almost as nasty to the Skaven as to us, so it’s not likely to single handedly swing a game, at least compared to other 25+ spells. Units within 24 inches of the caster both friend and foe are affected on a 4+ (or a 5+ if they are Pestilens). If the unit is affected, each model in it has to pass a Toughness test or become a casualty with no armor save allowed. Bad, but not too scary since our most important units tend to have high Toughness scores.

    EDIT: You can prevent your opponent from setting up an ideal position for this by diligently preventing a rat from Skitterleaping into the middle of your army.

    Skaven Ruin: Pit of the Underworld: 20+ for this Comet of Cassandora like spell. Spell places a marker on the board. Every subsequent magic phase, roll to see if it triggers on a 5+. The spell triggers a large template pit which requires units to pass an Initiative test or die. It also destroys buildings and units within them with no I test. Given that you should have at least one round’s warning for this spell, it’s fairly avoidable (especially if your unit is in a building they can just exit). The spell becomes dangerous only when you have an expensive Saurus or Temple Guard unit stuck in place by a deep unit of Skaven Slaves.

    Tzeentch: Daemonfire Vortex: The only Tzeentch attack spell that doesn’t use Warpflame! 25+ to summon a large template which kills all models it passes over on a 4+ with no armor save. Firmly in the middle of the pack for 25+ spells.

    Nurgle: Grandfather Nurgle’s Circle of Life: Probably the nastiest 25+ ET spell. Direct damage inflicts 5d6 hits on a target unit within 36 inches that wound on a 4+ with no armor saves. If the spell inflicts 10 unsaved wounds (this should happen about half the time) the Nurgle player gets a free naked Great Unclean One if the caster is a Daemon or a free Daemon Prince with the Mark of Nurgle with a value up to 375 points. Obliterating an enemy unit and then getting a free unkillable character! Pray that the caster does not roll a “6” for his d6 roll.

    Slaanesh: Song of Seduction: One of the nastier 20+ spells in my opinion. Hexed unit within 24 inches of the caster loses 2 from the Leadership trait then switches sides, potentially exiting combat by an inch. The unit can rejoin it’s original side testing it’s (modified) Ld at the end of every subsequent magic phase, but don’t want for your unit to pass their test, it’s a RIP spell, so you can shut down with Drain Magic or the Cube of Darkness.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
  2. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    Great article! I've been looking for a more thorough rundown of this entire mess for a while. I still can't quite decide if I think this is worse or better than the (current) normal rules. My greatest issue is some of the annoyances that pop up once in a while, like...

    This has been a contested rule. End Times spells cannot be dispelled, and removing them during your turn is still a dispel, unless your Slann is on high magic (using drain magic to remove it).

    This spell does give me headaches just thinking about it though. I can just imagine the complaining this spell would cause in a game where the enemy has negative Ld modifiers, and rerolls/additional die-drop lowest type of special rules that applies to "enemies". Though it would be fun watching Malekith/Karl Franz do a brainfart and charge into one of his own units, obliterating it in the process.

    Using it on Skaven is obligatory though - Thanqual hasn't been properly utilized if he doesn't kill at least 1 of his own units! :p
     
  3. Korhedron
    Saurus

    Korhedron Member

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    Nice. But I see you assume ET-spells can be dispelled. This is unfortunately not so. If you do manage to pull one off, that is challenge enough
     
  4. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Mahrlect! I knew summarizing a whole supplement woudl have me make a mistake somewhere. I fixed it now. I thought it was difficult to dispel ET spells, not impossible. That just makes the non-dispel scrolls like the Scroll of Shielding and the Siveijir's Hex Scroll even better.
     
  5. Korhedron
    Saurus

    Korhedron Member

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    Actually, Scalenex, I believe this makes the average magic phase more predictable for us. Can I rant a bit?

    ET-spells are either something you don't want to gamble on, or more of an opener to the magic phase. There's a roughly 50% chance your FOM slann will pay a 1pd tax at the start of the phase, as you try to shut down an enemy caster. With rerolled failed casts, and no dispel, Lock down becomes more viable. This ET-"tax" is not too hard on a channeling slann, but will be felt for other casters, as it brings you closer to the amount of DD of the opponent. I also believe that lore master high with channeling combo makes high our best choice for an aggressive player in ET: decent chance at deadlocking or shrugging of 1 PD, and spammable soulclench/hand of glory/arcane unforging, as well as wbw; is so strong in ET. This mostly outweighs the advantages of the WD toolbox in the first round, in my opinion, as you can get the other needed lores for next round.

    Many of the ET spells are also things that you really want resolved before the rest of your barrage. On the PD vs DD scale it offers 3 results: one dice lost, 4+ dice lost or success with high risk of IF for a game changer of a spell. This dictates what spells to use next, or drain your pool of the advantages of PD over DD. For some, this makes ET spells "targets of opportunity", that you attempt late-phase to avoid If-fallout. But I believe there is a good discussion to be had about order of casting with ET spells in the picture. Their effects dictates whether one should risk attempting the ET spell early. Ofc this will vary in each game, though generalising can be good here.

    This all creates a situation where you start the phase with generating initial PD and DD pool, and then consider: can I take a 1 PD tax/risk of more dice lost or IF on my lvl 3/4, if rewards outweigh risks? So if you decide to attempt the spell,

    should you cast the ET spell early?

    Arcane fulcrum? Slann gain less on this, notably not benefiting from the ward against miscast. But if you are near a likely location, and accepts the risks of standing on one; yes, throw it early.

    Deadlock? Most definitely yes. No dispel bonuses? Yes please, and often worth the risk in ET.

    Fire? Yes. Good hex for a follow-up barrage of fire spells.

    Light? Yes, from turn 2 and onward. It dictates what other buffs/debuffs you want to cast.

    Beasts? No: cast at targets of opportunity (elves/militias), or not at all

    Metal? "Immunity" to miscast damage for your TG is not bad, and something to consider first for TG-bunkers. Increased chance of IF during initial casting makes this a catch 22in some cases. WD slann could also try to toss
    Murder of Crows with impunity afterwards, or close range s4 templates, through the TG block.

    Life? Possibly second spell, after throne of vines: you want to assess healing needs after the SOR is resolved. Or: toss a risky template/vortex, then heal your damage with this. But regrowth is a good alternative here too.

    Heavens: Mostly no. You want to affect the units with other spells before you push them a random length around the battlefield, or you want to see if you can get them within range of certain nasties. Or yes, if you just want to smash units into each other. But that should be a useful, but secondary effect of the spell.

    Shadow bridge: mostly no. Buff own unit, assault target unit with templates and vortex. Then pop your unit into a favourable position. Maybe you need to kill off a back rank of a horde, to have room to fit your carnosaur/Scar vet-bus between a shielding unit and that mage bunker?

    Death: No, throw after you've done some spells, so you can get more PD, to continue dictating the phase.

    Undeath? Casting order does not matter so much, beyond chance of IF before this spell before or during casting of it. Few other spells truly care about the strength of the unit at the time of casting.

    Be aware that the same will have occurred to your enemies, who probably have the same conundrum:

    Dark magi? Probably want to annihilate your fulcrum-slann early in the phase, if you have enabled this possibility...

    Vampires? Entirely depends on what the player wants to summon.

    Nehekara? Probably only cares about casting this early if he uses death for Purple sun.

    Wild? Against us? Well, he most likely don't care...

    The Great Maw? Unless he has means of buffing I first, I think he will use this early, if he risks it.

    Big Waagh? Not crucial to get off first, maybe unless in combat.

    Little Waagh? More likely to be cast early, to deal with defensive items.

    Skaven Plague? Keep your DD ready to counterspell Skitterleap to prevent him from getting a good position for this spell.

    Skaven Ruin? Probably an early spell if the caster wants to get it off.

    Tzeentch? I guess an early spell, to ensure no-one gets a regeneration save first!

    Nurgle? If the enemy has it, I'd say odds are good he's saving six dice for an attempt at this after various debuffs. But many gamers probably can't wait to try it, due to the possible rewards. But at 25, you don't want to risk losing the rest of the phase to IF first.

    Slaanesh? Will probably be cast before nasty spells ruins the unit he hopes to gain, and after ld-affecting hexes have been cast.

    Phew! If you feel like using any of this, feel free to cannibalise it. If people want to discuss it, Scalenex would probably want to move the post/discussion to another thread.
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  6. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Your "rant" was actually well reasoned and well-thought out with good tips for maximizing use of ET spells. It was a giant block of compact text so I took the liberty of adding some spacing and fixing formatting and spelling here and there.

    I think you are right that they make good openers. I thought of ET spells as a Hail Mary! move if the chips are down late game, but your way makes at least as much sense (not that ET spells can't be used for both).

    I hadn't thought of Lockdown being used proactively to clear the way for spell spamming. That seems to make Focus of Mystery a clear winner over Wandering Deliberations, well-spotted.
     
  7. Korhedron
    Saurus

    Korhedron Member

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    Thanks. Both for compliment and edit.

    I agree. There is also the possibility to bully your opponent into saving his dice for dispelling "the final, big spell", a common tactic to leave your opponent guessing what spells to block and not when you have many to chose from. In ET this makes such gambles much harder, and biases testing ET spells first, I think. The "final spell" could be ET, which could conceivably waste any remaining DD. Bu also, if you fail, or the D6 leaves you with leftover PD, you are very unlikely to succeed with anything with them, due to dice pool differences. But this conundrum is the meat and bread of the new system, and minds more clever than me should chime in on such strategies.



    EDIT: Curse of anraheir. Then push unit with a surprise ET heavens, with no possibility of dispelling. Woooonderfull combo ;) if it fails, no worries, your skink priests also has the garden variety wind spell. Oh yes, wd has some nasties as well.
     
  8. SilverFaith
    Terradon

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    For an army of redirectors, heavens is way more insane than you think it is.

    Those 2 units your opponent uses as redirectors? They just got pushed 2d6 inches away from your battleline. His deathstar also got pushed backwards, away from the main combat line, while the weaker unit got pushed closer - even if it gets the charge, it'll still be horribly slaughtered, because you have just cut off all sorts of support it should have had.

    Heavens have been extremely potent in my experiences, because it can completely mess up the enemy plans. And if you run by the rule that you can utilize all 4 push on the same unit... Let's just say your unit of choice has now been taken entirely out of the game. Though in all honesty, I don't believe this is how it is intended to work, because pushing a single unit 8d6 dice in a given direction is almost the equivalent of removing it from the table without awarding victory points. Most units simple don't have the movement to get back into the fight after even a below average push of 20 inches sideways/backwards. Even Elves would struggle to get back into the fight at this point, assuming you were out of charge range, which would put them at almost 40" away from you. And you can potentially push them 48". Even FLYERS will waste 3+ turns getting back into the fight.

    You really shouldn't write off heaven as a weak one, especially given its comparatively low casting cost.
     
  9. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Flame Cage seems even better. Net of Amytok might work too but it would need to be something vulnerable to Exorcism to make it work the bother. Normally these are spells that aren't in the same list with Heavens casters (unlike say Beasts), but we are talking plentiful lore masters, so the rules are changed.

    Another thought that occurred to me that makes High Magic even more of a no-brainer is Drain Magic. With the RAW, there is nothing stopping you from removing all the ET buffs and hexes with this spell. Then you only have to deal with this on your opponent's turn. That's better than nothing. Well it's been pointed out before, but Drain Magic is worth special mention.
     
  10. Basskin
    Jungle Swarm

    Basskin New Member

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    Hi. Didnt notice this in the main section, but if it's there I apologize.

    Using an engine of the gods lowers the casting value of spells.

    With this a 15+ BRB spell can be reduced to 14+ allowing for recasting.

    I've run this past the guys at the local gw and they agree with it. Wondering if people will find this useful.
     
  11. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I'll put in the main section now, that's a good catch.
     
  12. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    MR or some sort of anti-magic defense is a must for your important units. It's not terrible if you can't spam cast but spam casting can easily wipe out most of an army in 1 turn without good ward saves. I like the EotG plus MR items for my Saurus and Temple Guard.

    Conversely Lizards are just sick with spam casting. Turn 1 you open up with an Arcane Vassal Soul Quench for 42" range which you can easily cast on 1 die with FoM an average of 14 times. You might want to cast a second spell just to get soul quench back at the end of the round but not necessary. End of the turn you ditch soul quench for Undeath. Turn 2 you spam cast Khizaar the Soul Stealer at 2 dice with 36" range (thanks to Vassal) and get 1d3 undeath counters each time you wound a unit. Since it ignores armor you can hopefully wipe out his big scary knight units. This opens up some big summons that you can use to further speed bump the stuff you don't want to fight.

    Alternatively if he doesn't have HE lore attribute or Skill Banner you just stick with soul quench until you win. Fire ain't bad either between the lore attribute and arcane configuration.

    edited: to cleanse my chaos possessed mouth.
     

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