1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The April Poetry Contest has opened for voting! For more information, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Fantasy vs AoS

Discussion in 'General Hobby/Tabletop Chat' started by PurpleandGold, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. PurpleandGold
    Saurus

    PurpleandGold Active Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    33
    alright I'm always hearing talk about how one is better then the other but I want to hear all your reasons. I know @NIGHTBRINGER will have something to say. I want gameplay reasons lore reasons any reason anyone has that they prefer one to the other.
     
    Crowsfoot likes this.
  2. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,048
    Likes Received:
    8,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    TBH you can't really compare them, in my eyes, trying to do this is when you get all the problems.

    AOS is nothing like fantasy

    Fantasy is nothing like AOS

    Only thing they have in common is the models.
     
    n810 and PurpleandGold like this.
  3. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    4,734
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I disagree a bit.
    Both are army war games and they share the universe.
    AoS is the newer one, more streamlined and beginner friendly.
    I wouldn't be here if there was still 8th Edition.

    AoS surely is better in some things and worse in others, but the above is what was the important point for me.
    No hate for 8th Edition here, I would probably like to play it as well, but AoS is good for me. :)
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1490235118239.jpg

    response to follow...
     
    n810 and PurpleandGold like this.
  5. PurpleandGold
    Saurus

    PurpleandGold Active Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Im expecting a college level thesis here nightbringer
     
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To (hopefully) avoid arguments I've kept my response as clean (unless otherwise noted) as possible and put it into this lovely table:

    upload_2017-11-14_14-28-38.png

    Of course the grading is subjective and based purely on my own personal preferences. For example, while WFB is tactically more complex than AoS, this isn't necessarily an advantage. I personally seek a more complex game, so for me WFB gets the advantage in that regard. However, for someone who is looking for a simpler game, AoS would get the nod.
    NIGHTBRINGER'S OVERALL FINAL GRADING:

    8th Edition Warhammer Fantasy Battles: A- (as in Awesome)

    "Warhammer" Age of Sigmar: C (as in the Cancer of all wargaming;
    and quickly metastasizing to all corners of the gaming community)

    Joking aside, play and participate in whatever game each of you enjoy most. The opinions expressed above are based solely on my own personal tastes and preferences. Mileage will vary. To each their own. Happy wargaming, no matter what wargame that might be my friends!
     
    n810, ignacio and Aginor like this.
  7. PurpleandGold
    Saurus

    PurpleandGold Active Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    33
    s

    This is very concise I definitely agree on the lore.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the lore is the least controversial aspect of the Fantasy vs. AoS debate.
     
  9. PurpleandGold
    Saurus

    PurpleandGold Active Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Yeah. I liked the old world it was getting a little cramped but AoS expanded it which is good but weird. The fluff behind my army is that Mazdamundi tasked their Slann with finding a good spot for Lustria 2 and terraforming it and rebuilding the lizardman race. That's why after battles he normally doesn't dismiss his army and occasionally releases herd of wild stegadons or packs of cold ones and other lustrian flora and fauna.
     
  10. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So besides Slann, are there any flesh and blood Lizardmen left or are they all simply dreams?
     
  11. PurpleandGold
    Saurus

    PurpleandGold Active Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    33
    In my fluff yes. Their slann is supposed to rebuild lustria and the lizardman civilization. In the canon lore I don't think so
     
  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think your fluff is better than the canon. That whole dream-state Lizardmen idea is too weird for my liking.
     
  13. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    4,734
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good news (not really news)!
    There were some answers by the GW lore team that strongly imply that there are indeed living Lizardmen left, and not only Slann and few Oldbloods/Sunbloods.
    A Slann can remember his armies into existence if need be, but some of them are just teleported in, and if they are not needed anymore they are going to some physical place.

    So this nicely fits into my own lore, which also supports both. There are jungle cities and spawning pools and all that jazz. Slann prefer not to use their memories for fighting because it takes more of their energy, which is limited.

    And yes, that makes AoS lore a million times better for me for some reason.
     
    PurpleandGold and Crowsfoot like this.
  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Making AoS lore a million times better:

    0 X 1,000,000 = 0


    *class dismissed*


    :D
     
    PurpleandGold likes this.
  15. PurpleandGold
    Saurus

    PurpleandGold Active Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Yeah. To me the great plan seems harder to pull off when the lizardman have no physical presence. The only thing I liked about AoS lore is that it leaves a lot of room for everybody to me the old world was feeling a little cramped
     
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I actually like the concept of the old world being a little cramped. Limited resources equals conflict, and conflict is the key ingredient in great stories.
     
    PurpleandGold likes this.
  17. ignacio
    Skink

    ignacio New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Does anybody know if GW is going to create new minis for Lizardmen in AoS as they did with dwarfs, vampire counts, etc?

    P.D: AoS is a big and smelly piece of shit (i was going to represent that on a table but it looks that is understandable) :D
     
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  18. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    4,734
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wouldn't bet on them doing new Seraphon models.
    The reason behind that is that Seraphon are already one of the armies that have the biggest choices of units that are actually viable for playing.
    If they want more celestial order guys they will make some more Stormcast, not lizards.

    Of course it isn't impossible, I will be the first to gladly admit I was wrong if they release one, but... it seems unlikely to me.
     
    ignacio likes this.
  19. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Terradon

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    791
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I like how AoS still has its roots in Fantasy in that the Mortal Realms are named after and share properties of the Fantasy Winds of Magic - makes it (a little) less alien for a Fantasy player like me to understand. I will now give a list of pros and cons for each:

    Fantasy

    Pros:
    • More tactical gameplay
    • Most armies are balanced
    • Points system is better (can have any number of men rather than just 5, 10, 20, e.t.c.)
    • Game wasn't biased at all (WoC are OP but weren't Space Marine-like in terms of marketing)
    • Lore wasn't biased too much, although timelines were biased on the Empire for using Imperial Calendar
    • Loads of special characters for each faction meant you could have plenty of choice
    • Regimented units are more reminiscent of proper medieval and ancient battles, and rules are more realistic for big battles
    • Battalion sets (blast from the past or what?) were excellent for expanding existing armies
    Cons:
    • Although @NIGHTBRINGER disagrees, Warriors of Chaos are ridiculously overpowered - basic Core troops have a 4+ or 3+ save and can have from 2-4 attacks each at Initiative 4
    • Some armies were treated terribly by GW (Bretonnia, Tomb Kings, Beastmen, e.t.c.) while others that I believe to be inferior were treated much better (Vampires, Empire)
    • You can't voluntarily retreat from combat, so if your missile troops have been charged, you can't get them out of melee - they're basically dead already
    • 8th really supported the use of hordes, so elite armies that wouldn't normally have used hordes, e.g. Dwarfs, WoC, Saurus Warriors, e.t.c. now can use hordes to devastating effect, even though lorewise you wouldn't see them in massive hordes. One reason supporting 7th over 8th as 7th discouraged hordes for the most part because hordes are inflexible and cumbersome
    • Some factions that were hinted at in the lore didn't even have official armies (e.g. Araby, Albion, Cathay, Nippon, Fimir, e.t.c.) yet would have given greater diversity to the armies people played
    • I'm not a competitive player but those who are become desperate to use specific builds or factions purely to win and not just for the fun of playing (although AoS has this disadvantage too)
    • Battalion sets weren't very good when starting out because you still had to get a character as well
    • Many Death Star units that eliminate the whole tactical part of the game
    AoS

    Pros:
    • Certainly better for beginners - main rules are 4 pages long and not a massive great book
    • General's Handbook gives points values to provide more balanced games
    • More streamlined and realistic when used for smaller skirmish games
    • Fyreslayers and Kharadron Overlords are brilliant new factions
    • Start Collecting sets are really good for starting new armies
    Cons:
    • Again some armies get all the glory (Stormcast, Sylvaneth) and others don't get nearly as much, both in lore and gameplay
    • No Bretonnia or Tomb Kings yet Empire and Vampire Counts still have the cheek to exist
    • I still have a grudge against GW for bringing Alarielle (a weak character only introduced in 8th Edition) back yet not resurrecting any of the old Dwarf characters who were much better and had existed since 4th Edition (Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Ungrim Ironfist, e.t.c.)
    • Some of the names and rules are really silly (All Sylvaneth names, some special rules for fantasy armies in AoS, e.t.c.)
    • Start Collecting sets aren't so good for expanding existing armies because they don't have so many units for the money than the old battalion sets
    • Many of the old Fantasy factions that weren't left out are still being left in the dust (High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarfs to less of a degree, even WoC are being knocked off their perch in favour of the God-specific Chaos factions)
    • Don't like the lore as much as Fantasy in general - Fantasy lore was more believable and down-to-earth. AoS lore is really strange and unrealistic in places. For example, how could a Slayer hammer gold runes into his flesh and not die of blood loss or extreme pain?
    The result: I still prefer fantasy for the most part, and AoS will never beat it as a regular fantasy battle war game, although if I had the chance I would start a small AoS army just for light skirmish game fun, probably Fyreslayers because the majority of them could be used with my Dwarfs in 8th Edition and also they could be used with an unofficial Slayer army list.

    Also, Fantasy had Steampunk Skaven before AoS, and even in AoS it's only the Kharadron Overlords and Skaven that are steampunk.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 11:41 AM
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  20. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,172
    Likes Received:
    21,708
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This comment warms my heart! :)

    Yup... as I said, welcome to the age of fantasy Space Marines.

    8th edition most definitely had many death star units apart from WoC units.

    When did I say that Warriors of Chaos weren't powerhouses? However it is not the core unit of Warriors that makes them so powerful... oh and their initiative is 5 :D. 8th edition for the most part was fairly well balanced, but there are definitely discrepancies between armies.

    Actually, speaking of power levels, I created a couple of polls over at EEFL looking at which armies belonged to the upper, middle and lower tiers of power. Each poll prompted voters to vote for the 4 best representations of each tier. I complied the results in the following graph:

    Army Power Level Poll Results.JPG

    I largely agree with the results (my top 4 most powerful armies are in fact High Elves, Dark Elves, WoC and Skaven). I think Lizardmen should be a little bit lower on the list and Wood Elves and Ogre Kingdoms should be a bit higher. I'd also put Tomb Kings above Beastmen and on par with Bretonnia.
     

Share This Page