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8th Ed. GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Army Lists' started by GCPD, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    Hi Nexs1!

    Well, there's a couple of reasons behind the Slann, but mostly as this is an End Times event I wanted to try a full on max Lords End Times list. It also vastly improves my favourite Lore (Light) with Strength 5 Banishment, access to all the Light Spells, plus the chance at some juicy doubles (double Pha's, double Banishment, double Speed of Light to name just a few. Hell, even double Burning Gaze against Undead, Daemons or those pesky Elveses would be useful). It also means that I can put the non-BSB Slann into the Temple Guard so they benefit from being Stubborn, whilst the BSB sits comfortably behind in a unit of Skinks.
     
  2. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    That's fair enough! A reason like "for the phun of it" is good enough for me!

    Are you sure there's enough skinks in the unit? I can imagine that a unit of squishy skinks with a bsb in it would be a prime target for attention....
     
  3. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    Yeah, I've been thinking that too. I could drop the Temple Guard down to 27 and bump one unit up to 15?
     
  4. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    I've never run a Slann in skinks before (because I've spent so long converting the bases for the temple guard!) So I don't have any real experience to draw from, but that number sounds good. Now what id be worried about is magic and templates. Shooting should be fine..
     
  5. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    Well, ideally his bunker is going to be parked right behind the Temple Guard, so if there is a bunch of shooting that kills off his bunker, he'll still benefit from the nearby LoS.

    However, its a good point. There may be an argument to put him in the Saurus if I'm facing a lot of templates weapons or spells. In that case - thanks! This has been useful to consider.
     
  6. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    That is something i've actually had some experience in.
    I tried taking 35 saurus as a bunker for my slann, but even 35 seemed too few due to the fact that a miscast took out a few and all the enemy fire was directed at them. Even with a flank charge, saurus warriors are so crap that they fluffed everything and lost combat. I ended up losing the lot.
    That being said, I didn't have a second slann in a temple guard unit to draw attention away. I think skinks are still the best choice because a lost skink is only 2/3 of the loss of a saurus warrior and a template attack will hit more saurus warriors than they would skink skirmishers (also, a miscast template is S10, T4 = T2 in that situation....)
    :)
     
  7. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    So I've just had a potential brainwave - what about running the second Slann on High magic? This opens up a lot of potential utility with Walk Between Worlds, Hand of Glory, a heal spell, and of course the potential game winning Fiery Convocation and Arcane Unforging (both of which could do a lot for me, and the latter especially in a character heavy environment - looking at you Karl Franz Ascendant). Plus I can always use the lore attribute to swap out to anything I have an urgent need for.

    And off course, thanks to Telepathic Confabulation, I can swap a Light spell onto this Slann in order to still benefit from S5 Banishment!

    Thoughts?
     
  8. VampTeddy
    Terradon

    VampTeddy Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists


    :p

    I already kinda mentioned it :p
     
  9. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    Haha I totally missed that!! Or maybe it just sat in my subconscious until I thought it was my own idea? :p
     
  10. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

    Alright, here's my first pass at a SCGT list. It builds upon the lessons that I learnt at a 1 dayer in December, and BnG namely:

    High magic is very versatile and ca be powerful in the currentElf meta, but lacks redundancy without careful preplanning for spell swapping.
    Light magic is great fun, but I wasn't completely sold on the double Slann.
    The list lacks combat punch, with the PotSblood being too situational to be truly effective.
    I struggle with fast combat lists: tying into the above, multiple scar vets instead of one Oldblood would help improve coverage against multiple fliers.

    Slann Mage-Priest: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy; Soul of Stone; Harmonic Convergence; Focus of Mystery; Channelling Staff; The Egg of Quango; Lore of High Magic; Battle Standard Bearer 480
    Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield 252

    Saurus Scar-Veteran: Dawnstone; Dragonhelm; Ironcurse Icon; great weapon; light armour; Cold One 150
    Saurus Scar-Veteran: Armour of Fortune; Dragonbane Gem; great weapon; Cold One 144
    Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll; Level 2 Wizard; Lore of Heavens 125

    10 Skink Skirmishers 70
    10 Skink Skirmishers 70
    20 Skinks: Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer 130
    2 Kroxigor 100
    12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer 80
    12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer 80
    12 Skinks: musician 70

    30 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard) 495
    Bastiladon: Solar Engine 150

    2,396 points

    So in scgt comp this puts me on:
    Channelling staff/harmonic convergence -1
    Mounted scar vet -1
    Mounted scar vet -1
    Three skink cohorts under 15 -1
    Bastiladon +1
    Total 2

    I can probably rejigger the core a bit to get up to a comp 3, but the things I'd really want to include are Terradons riders, Chameleon Skins andSalamanders, so the next draft will be trying to work these in.

    C&C welcome!

    Edit: first attempt at comp 3, trading two Temple Guard to bring a Skink unit up to 15. I'm over minimum Core but now also have a Fortitude of 8, and scoring units look to be key (critical in 5 of the 6 missions, plus the TPs for breaking/preserving).

    Slann Mage-Priest: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy; Soul of Stone; Harmonic Convergence; Focus of Mystery; Channelling Staff; The Egg of Quango; Lore of High Magic; Battle Standard Bearer 480
    Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield 252

    Saurus Scar-Veteran: Dawnstone; Dragonhelm; Ironcurse Icon; great weapon; light armour; Cold One 150
    Saurus Scar-Veteran: Armour of Fortune; Dragonbane Gem; Potion of Foolhardiness; great weapon; Cold One 149
    Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll; Level 2 Wizard; Lore of Heavens 125

    10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
    10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
    20 Skinks: Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer 130
    2 Kroxigor 100
    15 Skinks: musician; standard bearer 95
    12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer 80
    12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer 80

    28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard) 467
    Bastiladon: Solar Engine 150

    2,398 points
     
  11. Madrck
    Temple Guard

    Madrck Member

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    I'm a big fan of Dobby ala OB pihrana blade str pot. Stanks, DP, 1+ AS MC, nobody and nothing wants to risk fighting that. Which means you have an awesome near unstoppable block of TG.

    The glaring hole in your army is your lack of salamanders. I'd prob drop the second scar-vet for 2 sallies.

    The other iffy thing is light. If you had a big block of Krox I'd be all in as light makes them come alive as a unit. If you are avoiding life because of comp then it's hard to not see focus of mystery as the right choice. It's the ultimate toolbox that give or take makes good decisions better and bad ones the end for you.

    I also like movement over discipline banner, but I guess that's a preference.
     
  12. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Hmm.

    Doable, but I'd then have to cut 4 points from somewhere. A core Skink, maybe.

    I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on the necessity of salamanders un thus lust though. Ranged pressure?
     
  13. Madrck
    Temple Guard

    Madrck Member

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    anti horde, blocks of 50 slaves can't take a half decent sally shot without crippling what the unit is suppose to do. It also threatens low LD (ala OnG or OK). If you have ever play them you know a panic check is the last thing they want to do outside of general LD.
    What do you do against witch elves? Salamanders Gors? Salamanders white lions or phoenix guard? Salamanders
    Savage orcs or night goblins? Salamanders Zombies, Skeletons and ghouls? Ignore them a kill the knights :)
    WoC warriors blocks? Offer the draw and hope you opponent has had a long day.....

    They simply answer so much against almost every match up. A unit of 2 with High magics WBW is fatal against battle lines. Chaff wars, they are str5 with 3 wounds and a 5+ ward save(at least while you have handlers)

    My single favourite thing about sallies though is a call back to 7th. They were god like and most people remember them as such. So guess what takes focus of your cowboys and stegs? That's right Salamanders

    Hmmmm I feel like I should repaint mine now
     
  14. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    My answer to all of the above is Fiery Convocation ;)

    But I do entirely see your point. In fact just before Christmas I played a one dayer using my double Slann with two salamanders and I was reasonably impressed. Well, that is to day that the spent three games running away and misfiring;, with only one or two shots that didn't really do all that much, but they were a threat which my opponents felt that they had to deal with.

    The three changes I am considering are:

    Drop one scar vet for two sallys.
    Keep the scar vet, but drop the oldblood for two sallys and one unit of Terradons.
    Drop the level 2 down to 1 and lose the Egg to get some camo skinks.

    I'm going to get some practice games in with all three variants, with the first next Monday, so watch this space!
     
  15. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Well, it's been a long, long while but after all that AoS disillusion I'm back in the hobby for what could be the last 8th event in the UK. Sad face. But, lizards!

    Slann Mage-Priest: Soul of Stone; Harmonic Convergence; Focus of Mystery; Channelling Staff; Ironcurse Icon; Scarecrow Banner; Lore of High Magic; Battle Standard Bearer 440
    Saurus Oldblood: Arabyan Carpet; Armour of Destiny; great weapon; shield 252

    Saurus Scar-Veteran: Dawnstone; Dragonhelm; The Other Trickster's Shard; great weapon; light armour; Cold One 160
    Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll; Lore of Heavens 90

    10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
    10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
    12 Skinks: musician 70
    12 Skinks: musician 70
    10 Skinks 50
    20 Skinks: Poisoned Attacks; Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer 170
    2 Kroxigor 100

    30 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard) 495
    Bastiladon: Solar Engine 150
    3 Terradon Riders 105
    3 Terradon Riders 105

    2,397 points

    The event is Reading Warfare: 2,400 points in 5 games (three Battle Line, one Meeting Engagement, one Blood and Glory with 600 bonus VPs on offer). ET armies and units are allowed, but not Khaine magic. Most of the comp takes the form of caps on the worst offenders (ie Warlocks). Special characters are banned, except with a few restrictions.


    Anyway, enough of that. The list above is one that I wrote almost immediately after SCGT, taking what I found worked best and building on it. If there’s a word which best describes it, then I think that word is ‘utility.’ It’s got a party Slann packing High because that Lore is such great a toolbox, even if I don’t make the most of the Attribute (and even if all I ever manage to Unforge are Potions of Speed/Foolhardiness). It’s got the Problem-Solver-in-Chief that is the Flyblood, even if he does tend to run into something way above his pay grade from time to time. It’s got double problem solving redundancy in the Scar-Vet, now packing an OTS. It’s got Iceshard, because Iceshard. It’s got a million Skinks. I’ve even gone and given the Skink-Kroxigor Poisoned Attacks, which I never thought I’d take, so they have an edge in combat (they tend to either fight things with high T and low AS ie monsters/monstrous Inf, or low model count ie medium/fast cav, where every wound helps). It’s got the Blastydon because everyone should have a respectful fear of dat Lazer. It’s even got two units of Terradons, because I’m expecting to face a lot of Elves, and nothing beats the sound of Waywatchers/Shades/Wild Riders/Dark Riders/Ellyrian Reavers being crushed under falling rocks. And I’ve buffed the TG up to 30 models so they can take and give out a bit more punishment. It’s even got a wacky Scarecrow banner in case I ever fight... I dunno, Harpies or something, I guess.


    In case you’re wondering why the Slann doesn’t have Reservoir, it’s because the comp limits to max 2 dice generated each phase and I figure channelling will count for that most of the time.


    The list works in two approaches: offensive, and defensive. On the attack, the Temple Guard push forward against a target whilst rotating a screen of chaff, preferably on a refused flank, whilst the Saurus characters hunt targets of opportunity. Generally speaking, this goes for anyone who’s particularly soft and squishy (Elves, Beastmen, Skaven and the like). On the defence, I bunker up in a corner around the Temple Guard with a wall of Skinks out in front. This works against the scary things ie Warriors of Chaos, Daemons, Dragon spam lists. I’ve calculated that my chaff (all the Skink units plus both Terradons) only comes to 2 TPs under the 20-0 system, so I can afford to throw those away so long as it secures me a bigger, tastier target.


    As always, comments/criticism is welcome.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015

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