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AoS Help vs Stormcast

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Stevie754, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Stevie754
    Jungle Swarm

    Stevie754 New Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I want to start by saying I don't have Kroak, he's next on the list, can't wait to get him up on a balewind :)

    Until then though I'm playing primarily against Stormcast and mixed order guys, I've had issues before when the guys I play against drop a big block of 20 liberators with all the buffs making them 2up rerolling 1s.

    I've attached the list 1 of the guys is going to be bringing (he might change it up a little but he has ran this before against other people).

    There are so many threats that can spam out mortal wounds, I'm going to be bringing 2 basti with laser to try and snipe the hurricanum off early but how would you go against dealing with a list like this?

    Thanks for any help or if you have tips on who I should be trying to get off the table first.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Arawn
    Skink

    Arawn Member

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    Hi!
    I am not the best in list building, but against this Order army, and without Kroak, I would use something like this.

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    Leaders

    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)

    Battleline

    40 x Skinks (200)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

    Units
    3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)
    10 x Chameleon Skinks (240)
    4 x Razordons (160)

    Behemoths
    Bastiladon (280)

    Battalions
    Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

    Reinforcement Points (140)

    Total: 1950 / 2000
    Allies: 0 / 400

    The list is not complete, you can increase the reinforcement points for example.
    I would go with the double teleport ability.

    If you can start,
    -The idea is to summon 3 other rippers, so you can have the toad next to the Liberator.
    -Pop up your Chama skinks in a terrain next to any hero to snipe him.
    -Teleport the razordon 11'' away from the liberators
    -Use the shadowstrike Rippers to charge the liberators
    3Rippers + 4Razordon shooting,will be enough to get rid of the unit.
    - Leave the Astrolith bearer and the Bastiladon together so you can reroll the 4+ to touch.
    -Delay the Steam tank by placing screens of 10 skinks on his way thanks to the double teleport. and use wary fighters instead of fighting (if they are still alive^^)
    Then you have to deal with the remaing heros.

    If your opponent starts, The slann will be able to try to dispell his mystic shield.
    If he manage to buff the liberators, then you will have to snipe the heroes with the chama skinks and the razordons (if you can teleport them close enough) before dealing with them.
    But you may have a double turn to put in place the above startegy.

    As I said, I am not an expert, but this how I go against this list.

    Have a good day!
     
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  3. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    First of all: If the SCE player is a bit lucky and/or brings his best stuff, there is not much you can do. Be prepared for losing most of the time.

    That being said, let's look at that list....

    I would join @Arawn here and say a Shadowstrike might do the trick here. Try killing off his synergies. There is not much you can do against those Liberators if they are buffed, but they are rather slow and we have a few things that can maybe snipe their heroes (or force them to bubble-wrap the heroes which makes them less effective) and then go and use your superior speed to claim objectives.

    Another possibility could be Slann+Thunderquake, the Engine of the Gods might do some mortal wounds to soften them up and Bastiladons or Stegadons could do some sniping. Salamanders or Razordons can do some work once the enemy gets closer. Flood them with attacks and eventually you might break them up.
     
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  4. Seraphage
    Salamander

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the idea of trying to avoid his important unit - kite it and kill synergies while on the run.

    @Arawn 's list is nice but astrolith outside of a list built around him is a huge tax to pay - the reroll 1 from slann will be sufficient enough. Try using these points on something else.

    What units do you have available ?
     
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  5. Canas
    Salamander

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh, if it weren't for the Celestial Hurricanum I'd say bring an eternal starhost backed up with a shadowstrike host. Have your shadowstrike jump on the lord-celestant & relictor to take out his mortal wounds and then just have your eternal starhost duke it out with the main body of his army while whatever is left of the shadowstrike host takes out the cannon and proceeds to shoot at the castellant. The hurricanum makes guards rather difficult to field though (when are those finally going to be usefull against an army that has "reliable" mortal wounds -.-)

    Apart from that I think you're going to require some bastillidons and stegadons and hope your ranged firepower takes out some crucial stuff before you lose too much. Plus both stegadons and bastillidons should be able to take out quite a lot in melee, especially if they get to go first, now that I think about it an ark of sotek might be quite nice here. Maybe backed up with skinks so you can use their ranged attacks to force his heroes to stay far away and weary fighter to kite. That or take several shadowstrikes backed up by a slann and hope you can take out his entire set of heroes + cannon immeadiatly and then just use the skinks as sacrificial fodder while you chew through the rest of em... That might actually be quite effective.

    The main issue are his heroes and artillery though... mortal wound spam, and quite a lot of heavy damage, rend and long range attacks. That save is a lot less interesting, just don't focus the liberators untill the castellant is dead. They're not that big a threat anyway if I remember em correctly, just a big block to get stuck it. So outmanouvering him will be crucial. Hell, I'd barely bother with attacking the castellant, virtually all of his other stuff is a higher priority, and since the castelant can only target one other unit you should Always have a available target to shoot at if you bring our big dino's.

    As what @Arawn suggests. It's decent advice, but I'd disagree with focussing the liberators. They might be the thoughest to kill if you don't get the drop on them, but we also don't really care much about them. They're sturdy but have little bite. Focus on taking out the supporting heroes. So instead of teleporting the razordons and rippers to them, kill the cannon, take out some heroes. Those liberators are ultimatly just cannonfodder. Sturdy cannonfodder, but not the actual threat.


    On a sidenote, whoever came up with the whole "allies can borrow troops thing" needs to be punched in the face. The army your opponent uses is a perfect example of how this leads to an army with virtually only strengths and no weaknesses. The only thing it doesn't have is high movement, which with magic and heavy artillery it doesn't really need anyway... who needs to move if you can just bombard the objectiveinto oblivion....
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  6. Canas
    Salamander

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Made a list with several shadowstrikes

    Leaders
    Slann Starmaster
    (260)
    Skink priest (80)
    Skink starpriest (80)


    Battleline
    10 x Skinks
    (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers


    Units
    3 x Ripperdactyl/Terradon Riders
    (140/120)
    3 x Ripperdactyl/Terradon riders (140/120)
    10 x Chameleon Skinks (240)
    10 x Chameleon Skinks (240)
    4 x Razordons (160)



    Battalions
    Shadowstrike Starhost
    (170)
    Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

    Reinforcement Points (80-120)


    Use the leftover points as you see fit. It doesn't particularly matter for the strategy. Summoning skink handles near your razordons might be the best option.

    Turn 1) use your razordons, the slann's magic, your riders and chameleon skinks to take out at minimum the cannon (or its crew, whichever is squishier) and at least 1 hero, preferably the relictor so he can no longer heal reliably. You should be able to take out, or at least wound, more though.

    After this, use your ranged attacks to keep on killing heroes, jump em with the riders whenever they get in range and try to avoid his normal troops as much as possible. Use your superiour mobility to stay out or range and only attack them when no other targets are available Especially avoid the liberators as they're simply not worth the effort. Use your celestial rites & summon starlight to give your skinks some semblance of survival whenever they do get caught in melee.

    Once the heroes are dead switch focus to the steamtank. Alternativly, focus his steamtank first. Depends on which ends up being truly the biggest threat. Once that one goes down, wipe up whatever is left of his troops.

    The choice between ripperdactyls and terradons is a matter of preference and depends heavily on how reliably you can drop those sweet rocks on top of people. The terradons basicly have 2 main advantages over the rippers: 1) mortal wounds, which can potentially be devestating given that you can get a whopping 3D6 on a target. Get a good run over the steamtank or the hurricanum and they've more than done their job. And 2) their ranged attacks means it'l be even more difficult for him to try and turtle his heroes which are the crux of his entire army. The rippers however will do amazingly near the toads (but be considerably worse once away from the toads), which with how slow his army is he should have difficulty to get away from.

    Now this will mostly depend on how quickly you can take out his heroes & the artillery, if that can be done rapidly (and reliably) then this list might be hilariously effective. But I have no idea how reliable it is. If you fail to take them out quickly you'l probably be wiped out quickly given that it's not exactly a sturdy list and he has quite a lot of firepower.
     
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  7. Stevie754
    Jungle Swarm

    Stevie754 New Member

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    Thanks for the write ups folks, its good to see how other players would go about dealing with something like this.
    It's just like what Canas mentioned in his post, it does feel like I have a lot to get through while he just sits back and blasts anything he likes off the board.

    With the changes to rippers and the toad is the shadowstrike still worth taking if I only have 3 of them and 5 chameleon skinks?

    When I do finally get Kroak up on a Balewind against it.
    If I take Great Rememberer can I teleport him in, blast all his spells and teleport him back out again in the 1st phase or is teleport on the same model breaking a rule of 1?
    Or would it be better playing further back and out ranging him with Astrolith and just go for a deep teleport to take out the cannon crew and the hurricanum and grind him down for a couple rounds of Kroak spell blasts.

    Thanks again for all the help, I'm still only a few games into playing AOS and target selection has been a problem while I try and work out who's the biggest threat in the armies I'm going against.
     
  8. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Working out the threat is hard sometimes but usually get the heros and long range first but not always :D
     
  9. Canas
    Salamander

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    It's worth it, you should at least be able to take out the cannon or one of the heroes with the initial attack. If they can avoid being caught by his melee troops immeadiatly afterwards they can then run amok through his lines and cause general havoc which more than pays for their cost. But it'l obviously be considerably less reliably and effective.


    Meh, the main issue isn't so much figuring out the threats as much as that half his army is a threat.. the "synergy" in his army mostly consists of the fact that regardless of what we kill first something will do considerable damage to us. The only "option" there is to break the core tactic of his army is to nearly wipe it out. In contrast to break our core tactic it's generally sufficient to kill 2-3 key-units and the rest lose considerable strength.
     
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  10. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Very true, I would still try and snipe hero's though as without buffs SCE are considerably easier to kill, but it's just taking them out that's the problem you invest so much doing it you can't do anything else.
     
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  11. Canas
    Salamander

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Worst part about this list is that the SCE aren't even that problematic. The heroes can be sniped, the liberators ignored. But that tank and hurricanum make things messy... both they and the heroes form 2 sepeate issues.
     
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