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Discussion How do Lizardmen take their meals?

Discussion in 'Fluff and Stories' started by Scalenex, Dec 14, 2018.

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  1. Scalenex
    OldBlood

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    A while ago I wrote a piece covering how temple cities meet their daily needs for food, water, shelter, and whatnot. It was so comprehensive, I apparently cut off all potential replies... :(


    Anyway I was watching a moderately informative youtube video about the history of breakfast. Especially how different periods of history had different norms for eating. Three meals a day, two meals a day, or one big meal. It got me thinking, what about Lizardmen? Also, while we are at it, what about Carnosaurs, Stegadons, and all the others.

    So I guess we have the options of three meals, two meals, one really big meal, or constant grazing/snacking. Also, lets assume that a Lizardmen of any sort would need more food the more active he or she is.

    Slann

    A Slann can get any food he wants, any time he wants because a small army of retainers is on hand 24/7 to cater to his or her every whim.

    I imagine a Slann that wakes up after a long contemplation, a Slann might likely be especially hungry and demand a lot of food.

    A Slann that is actively managing city affairs, I picture as constantly requesting light snacks in the middle of doing other things.

    "And double the patrols along the east wall. What are is our inventory for poisoned javelins? Good. Grub please. Now as for the west wall..."

    Everyone Else

    I'd like to know what people who have pet frogs, snakes, or lizards, especially lizards. How often do they eat?

    Temple Guard and Saurus in general, often stand still for absurdly long periods of time. I'm betting Slann can use magic to stave off hunger in their guards if they are going to stand vigil a very long time. Chameleon Skinks often stay still for long periods of time.

    I'm betting Lizardmen that stand long vigils want to eat a very large meal after they break their vigil. A case can be made that Lizardmen usually eat like this all the time, even when they are not forced to stand still and fast. In this case they would favor a small number of very large meals. Probably eating a big meal before sleeping or maybe even a big meal every other day.

    On the other hand, a Saurus on a full day's march or a Skink or Kroxigor putting in a full day's work might function better if they get their calories in multiple increments. In fact, until modern times, people eating three square meals a day was pretty uncommon for people who didn't physically exert themselves like people working ten hour shifts or going on long marches. Lizardmen certainly are not averse to a hard day's work.

    Of course we could split the difference and Lizardmen normally have two meals a day rather than three meals or one big meal. If Lizardmen take a midday ciesta during the hottest part of the day, I can imagine they grab a bite to eat before hunkering down.

    Lizardmen are both bestial and regimented. I guess we can also figure out do Lizardmen usually take their meals in an orderly and rigid fashion or do they chomp down on their food like viscious predators. Or somewhere in between? Speaking of beasts.


    Then there are beasts. Cold Ones, Salamanders, Razordons, Carnosaurs, Stegadons, Terradons, Ripperdactyls, Bastiladons, as well as the unofficial beasties like Huagerdons.

    Even a Kroxigor is intelligent enough to not have to eat entirely by instinct, but animals don't always act rationally when they eat. Some animals will naturally ration their food, others will basically eat every iota of food they have. Weasels for instance will kill an entire chicken coup and bury the uneaten carcasses even though there is no possible way they can eat all the food they gathered before it spoils.

    Salamanders and Razordons natural weapons are more well suited to taking down smaller prey. They probably eat often. They probably go through relative periods of inactivity where they eat less. They need to replenish their fire fuel or regrow spines.

    Carnosaurs natural weapons are especially suited to taking down larger prey. They probably gorge themselves on huge quantities of meat, then go for several days without eating. At least in the nineties when I read through dinosaur books like crazy, that was a leading theory on how t-rexes ate.

    Ripperdactyls are fluff-wise the most dangerous beast that Lizardmen keep. I imagine they are like weasels in that they will not stop hunting until all available prey is gone. Terradons I see through the lens of birds. I can imagine them eating small meals relatively regularly.

    Stegadons and Bastiladons probably have to eat almost constantly though one kept in activity could gorge itself on grain or hay for short periods of time and work the rest of the day. I imagine Bastiladons at least, would probably be good fasters if the situation calls for it.

    Cold Ones are pack animals. I bet it's unlikely that they never stop hunting like Ripperdactyls, but I bet a pack will eat every scrap of meat of their hunts before moving on.

    Huagerdons are based on dogs. Some dogs I've seen will eat all available food until they throw up, so their owners need to carefully limit their food. Other dogs graze and their owners can safely let their dogs have basically unlimited food. My childhood dog had food in his bowl most of the time, but he did most of eating in the morning and at night. Huagerdons could vary eating habits from individual to individual. Of course all the aforementioned creatures and Lizardmen probably have different preferences.


    The reason I'm trying to hash out the details, because it might be interesting in fluff to have some of the normal story dialog to include discussing things over dinner. You could also set tone. If bells ring throughout the city and everyone takes a meal break for exactly one hour that sets the tone.

    If a bunch of Saurus informally rip chunks off a recent kill and gorge themselves in a messy fashion, that sets the tone too.


    Anyway what do y'all think?
     
  2. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Hmmm...

    I tend to think that Saurus, Kroxigor, and also Carnosaurs, Troglodons and Cold Ones may be able to eat like Crocodiles do:
    They can (and will) eat one or more small meals a day, but if necessary they can live just fine without eating anything for a week, if their meal before that was a decent one, and they will want to eat a bigger meal after that week, of course.

    Skinks and Terradons are more like smaller reptiles in my mind, eating small amounts of food, but more frequently.

    As for the Stega and Basti: Agree, they most likely work like real life elephants or something. Big, constantly eating, but they can live a few days without food as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  3. King Dust
    Skink

    King Dust Active Member

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    There's also the cultural element of eating. Humans for example can treat meals as sacred, or often at least ascribe significant social value to shared meals. Then there's the millions of people around the world that spend massive amounts of energy experimenting with/perfecting/obsessing over food and it's preparation. So do Lizardmen care about food in the same way? Are there feasts held in honor of the old ones? Lizardmen baking shows? Scheduled weekly dinners with one's spawn brothers?

    I tend to think that the old ones would have designed Lizardmen to require as little food as science allows, and maybe less than that considering godly magic. If only in the interest of reducing overhead in execution of the great plan. Also as cold-blooded creatures they would generally require less energy and therefore less food, than a warmblood of similar size. Given that, I don't think cultural traditions would really develop around food/eating.

    That being said, my interpretation doesn't make for very colorful fluff. And now I want to see a story about an amphitheater filled with skinks watching their favorite celebrity Xef-Qooq teaching them all how to create their own perfectly tenderized "Salamander-roasted greenskin, spiced with Xef-Qooq's signature poison frog hot sauce - just enough toxin to burn"
     
  4. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Hahaha epic! :D
     
  5. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    I am now picturing @spawning of Bob trying to sort out a dozen poof pastries with marzipan toppings...

    ...while other Saurus look on in embarrassment-fascination. Will Bob be eliminated this week on The Greater Lustria Baking Show??!?
     
  6. Scalenex
    OldBlood

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I was hoping someone would mention the social and cultural aspects of shared meals!

    I think this ties into three other aspects of human nature. This attention to food preparation is based on the human work ethic, the human desire for innovation, and the human desire for art. For the most part, Lizardmen have an excellent work ethic. They probably have less of an innovative spirit than humans, but officially it's left vague how artistic Lizardmen are. I happen to believe that Lizardmen are very artistic.

    I don't see why Lizardmen would care about food that differently from how real world humans do. Lizardmen are if anything more community and family minded than humans and they still need to eat to live, so they would value both the social and necessity aspect.

    Yes they would probably have regular social oriented dinners, but I don't think Lizardmen have seven day weeks. They probably base their calendar after the phases of the moon and the passing of seasons.

    I certainly think there are feasts in honor of the Old Ones. I think the calendar has enough holidays that it would be pretty easy to work regular spawning brother family dinners out of it.

    We could add another festival to have baking contest. I'm not sure which Old One best epitomizes hard work, maybe Tlazcotl, but I think there could be a festival where all the workers showcase their best work. There could be contests among potters to make the most beautiful vase, sculptors to make the handsomest bust of a Slann head, llama herders could have a livestock show. This could also incorporate more martial Lizardmen having physical contests.

    Officially, all the contests would be theoretically equal (or the martial contests would be the most important), but the cooking contests would probably have the most spectators because said contest is assuredly going to end with delicious free food for said spectators.
     
  7. King Dust
    Skink

    King Dust Active Member

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    Just think of the ratings!

    Fair, should have said regular instead of weekly :D
     
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  8. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Serious answer(s):

    Aquatics: Like Kroxigors and Skinks probably have turtles and assorted fish as their natural food / usual prey. (If left to their own devices, living off the jungle...)

    Big Quadrupeds: Bastilodon and Stegadon are primarily plant eaters, I thought. They’ll each have preferred species found in the jungles-swamps-prairies of Lustria but on campaign they can nosh on anything fit for horses or cattle.

    Dread Saurian: if it moves, lives, and breathes (But is not Chaos Tainted) it is food for a DS. Horses or cattle are probably the smallest things it would bother with.

    Meat Eaters: Cold Ones, Horned Ones, Saurus, Carnosaurs, etc. I like to imagine there are assorted herbivores (some scaly/some mammals) that serve as the principal prey for all of these species. But on campaign the herd beasts of the opposing army will do.

    Avians: Terrodons fish mostly (but also Harkleberries!! :pompus::couchpotato: ) Rippers, I dunno, those seem like recent mutants...I could believe they depend on their handlers/riders to find meat to nosh on.

    ~~~~~~~~

    All of the above is more what than how...

    How then:

    Ritual Feasting...that happens, but it is not a caloric needs mainstay.

    I am inclined to the efficiency of one meal a day supplemented by preying on targets of opportunity (If on campaign). In and around a city a daily cycle of: wake, eat, toil-labor-work, rest-sleep, ...begin again; sounds about right to me.
     
  9. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    I kinda picture Lizardmen as being much-less-picky-eaters compared to humans. The meat eaters consuming much of their diet raw / freshly killed. (Slann perhaps being a notable exception. Do they eat things other than those grubs? Are the Ixit grubs ...Icky grubs ...Whatzzit grubs, canon from an Army Book or just an LO convention-standing joke ?) If I read more fluff I’d probably know...


    Does anyone, I mean DID anyone, observe seven day weeks on the Warhammer planet? All I know:
    • It was bigger than Earth (1.5x 2x)
    • It had two moons
    • 1st Moon was similar to Earth’s moon
    • 2nd Moon was tiny, close in, almost all Warpstone, ultimately impacted the planet
    Was there a lunar calendar based on the motions of the big moon?

    I don’t ever remember reading of a calendar...but I always skipped—skimmed a lot of fluff.

    Also, What happened to the big moon? Did it become a rogue planetoid when its companion was obliterated?
     
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  10. Scalenex
    OldBlood

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I agree, but I think most Lizardmen would still cook their food. They just would eat their meat comparatively rare.

    In 6th and 7th edition, Itxi Grubs were an arcane magic item. A ratified grub that gave a temporary +3 boost to casting which was nice but less desireable than Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Plaque of Tepok, Cube of Darkness, and generic dispel scrolls. The reason it became a standing joke is "Hand me another Itxi grub" is quoted in one of the army books as a Slann's last recorded words before dying. Enough found it amusing that L-O have taken to offering forumites imaginary Itxi grubs instead of offering people imaginary beers which is silly. Beers are for everyone. Itxi grubs are only for priests :)smug: like moderators and Slann, yay elitism!).

    EDIT: I added Itxi grubs to the glossary in the Wikipedia.

    The big moon is very predictable, the little moon is not. Ergo, I think every lunar calendar by every race other than the Warriors of Chaos, Beasts of Chaos, and Daemons of Chaos would have a lunar calendar based on the big moon. Without evidence to the contrary, I would assume the Warhammer world would have a 365 day solar calendar.

    A lot of fluff mentions "weeks" passing, but I never remember any official fluff event occurring on a Thursday. I figure the human and human-like races would have seven day weeks with their own local names. If the Lizardmen have seven day weeks, they probably name the days after the Old Ones.

    The official fluff calendars only show years, they don't break it down in any smaller increments than years. Usually years are done on the Imperial calendar but the Elf calendar is well detailed with translations. It just so happens that both the Empire and the Lizardmen use the appearance of the twin tailed comet as year one on their calendars marking the birth of Sigmar and the discover of Tehenhauin's lost plaque respectively.

    That's an Age of Sigmar question. I don't know if the world that was blew up or if it's just a lifeless ball of rock. If the latter, than the big moon is probably still orbiting it. If the world was destroyed the old moon would be lost in space.
     
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  11. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Chocolate. Xocoatl. The Food of the Gods.


    Does it have a parallel history? or have the Lizardmen kept it to themselves?

    (NB: In our world the theobroma cacao tree is-was native-indigenous to the Yucatán area. )

    Discuss...
     
  12. Scalenex
    OldBlood

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Could of put the chocolate question here where I put a lot of effort in. sniff sniff :(

    The First Children of the Old Ones are keeping chocolate for themselves.

    Warhammer Fantasy, in some ways humans and the human-like races have technology and science beyond the Renaissance Era. Sometimes they have technological innovations lower than the Dark Ages.

    -If an innovation allows for mass slaughter, the Forces of Order will all have it.
    -If an innovation allows for improved quality of life, the Forces of Order do not have it.

    Though chocolate can be included in the Warhammer world if it requires an exploitative labor system to produce it. We actually touched on this in the Wild West discussion setting. Coffee, cocoa, cotton, sugar, and tobacco were all New World cash crops that were either produced by slavery or very exploitative systems that could be called wage slavery.


    Both the Aztecs and the Mayans ate chocolate. From my limited googling it looks like both cultures preferred to drink chocolate rather than eat chocolate.

    Aztecs limited it to the upper classes. If we used this as inspiration, chocolate would be limited to priests and skink leaders.

    Mayans, most social social strata had cocoa. The rich had more, but it wasn't an aristocrat only item. In this case, chocolate would probably be something everyone (or at least every Skink) gets to enjoy on feast days, but only ranking Lizardmen can eat chocolate on a regular basis.

    Or you could say that the taste buds of the first do not enjoy cocoa in which case they wouldn't eat it at all. It also touches on the question if Skinks, Saurus, Kroxigor, and/or Slann are obligate carnivores or not. I do think that if the Lizardmen eat potatoes, beans, fruit, and green vegetables they would also eat chocolate. Slann are advanced beings, so they probably like chocolate. They are also fairly rotund.

    There is no right answer. If you want to write Skinks drinking cocoa in your fluff, more power to you.

    There are a fair number of warmbloods that have semi-stable settlements in Lustria and the Southlands. My guess is most human, elf, and dwarf colonists would not figure out about cocoa by themselves. Prehistory has a lengthy tradition of people eating stuff.


    Our ancestors learned what was tasty and what was poisonous by trial and error, but the New World colonists would have grain crops so they would have little incentive to try their luck with native flora, especially since Lustria and the Southlands has far more dangerous plants than the real world jungles.

    Maybe if group of warmbloods managed to befriend the Lizardmen, they might share the secret of chocolate (along with other foodstuffs). I'm actually kind of working on a fluff piece based around a Southlands alliance between Dwarfs and Lizardmen but I'm having trouble making an interesting story out of it because peaceful cooperation doesn't make interesting stories.


    What about coffee? The Warhammer World treats Lustria and the Southlands as having pretty much the same ecosystems, and in official fluff, the jungles of the Southlands resembles the Amazon rainforest more than Lustria resembles the central African rainforest.

    In the real world, Cocoa comes from Central America and Coffee is native to Africa. Would all Lizardmen have coffee, just the Southland's Lizardmen, or are all Lizardmen bereft of coffee?
     
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  13. GuaDan
    Temple Guard

    GuaDan Well-Known Member

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    I would love my Slann to feed only on copious amounts of chocolate and coffe, and engage battles and summon dread saurians just to get cocoa/coffe beans.
    From now on I think I'll call coffe and chocolate 'the gifts of the Old Ones'
     
  14. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Chocolate Covered Ixti Grubs...

    :rolleyes:
     
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  15. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Sorry...
    ...this seemed like the food network thread. (The inspiration for the question was a cooking show network documentary about chocolate/xocoatl.)

    Suppose the common Auldworldium Cacao tree was originally indigenous to the Southern most peninsula of Ind?

    I do imagine that there are specific plants (Harkleberries!) that are important to the different species of Lizardcreatures.

    I quite like the idea of the Lustrous Cacao tree being the private reserve of Slann.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  16. gb2098
    Skink

    gb2098 Member

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    Odds are that since they are Carnivores, Saurus and Kroxigors can't even taste chocolate properly.. or rather, that they'd lack the taste receptors for sweetness, and would thus experience it very differently than we do.
    https://scienceillustrated.com.au/blog/nature/why-carnivores-dont-taste-sweets/

    however since Chocolate is very bitter in its natural form, this might be a moot point. odds are that the Lizardmen, if they have chocolate, don't even bother to sweeten it. perhaps like the Mayans, they mix their raw Chocolate paste with cold water and dried and ground hot peppers to create a fat rich "Warrior drink" that both gave energy and woke people up.

    of course, many lizards and birds can't taste capsaicin, so lizardmen might not be able to taste spicy stuff either.

    because solid chocolate was very difficult to make, and used a lot of a very work intensive product. Liquid chocolate was too, but it was easier to mix the raw Chocolate paste.
    basically, to make you have to ferment the seedpods then extract the (now softened) seeds, and grind them up. this creates a fat rich paste. drying the paste produced a dry powder, which is how most of it was stored. to make a solid chocolate product, they'd have to add a binder (fat, tallow, etc) and of course flavorings.. and the binder usually would be of a fairly strong flavor itself. the fact you could make a lot of chocolate drink for the same amount of powder just made it non-viable.

    Chocolate drinks however had the problem that chocolate is not soluble in water. so a chocolate drink would basically be powdered chocolate suspended in water that has been flavored by whatever additives you used. (vanilla [which was incredibly hard to get], ground hot peppers, various ground spices, etc. usually ground Maize ["corn"] was added as well, probably for ). the drinks were usually served cold, and preparation involved pouring back and forth between cups until the . since the chocolate wouldn't dissolve, and it had a fair amount of large particulates, the drink would start to separate almost immediately. the Spanish, given cups of it on meeting the Aztecs, recorded they found the 'froth and scum' on the surface unappetizing. so it would need to be drunk fast, or perhaps stirred frequently. most likely it was just not a drink one was expected to nurse.
    there were alcoholic varieties as well, where the mixture was left to ferment. so basically chocolatey corn-beer.

    the Aztecs apparently prepared it the same way. they did have to import all of theirs from the Yucatan so this makes some sense. this is also why they valued it so much more, to the point of it being usable as currency for major deals. to the Aztecs, Chocolate was the drink of royalty and the preisthood as much because they were the only ones that could afford to consume it regularly as it was because they viewed it as a gift direct from the gods.)


    worth noting that modern chocolate didn't appear until 1815. Europeans loved chocolate, especially with Sugar, and worked out ways to refine the product using chemical processes, which made it easier for them to make solid chocolate. which became a big fad for a long time. but it was always what we would call "dark chocolate', since it was still not soluble in water. in 1815 a Dutch chemist learned how to add alkaline salts to chocolate which reduced the bitterness, and a special press that could extract up to half the fat from Cocoa, making it cheaper and easier to store. it also made solid chocolate a lot easier to make. in 1847 a way to make chocolate soluble with milk and water by further removing fat was discovered, resulting in modern milk chocolate (and a huge chocolate industry, since it could now be super sweet.
     
  17. Scalenex
    OldBlood

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Bears eat honey. Bears are generally omnivores. I don't know if polar bears would try to eat honey, but I understand (in very rare instances) they can interbreed with brown bears, so presumably they have sweet receptors.

    I would envision the Old Ones would make their servants omnivores not carnivores because omnivores are more adaptable, but I suppose if Saurus and Kroxigor (or all Lizardmen) were obligate carnivores they might not have a sweet tooth. I can understand the rationale behind giving Saurus and Kroxigor a limited palate, but I believe a wider palate has more storytelling opportunities.

    I really like the idea of Lizardmen eating spicy food.

    But I don't have any real reason to say Lizardmen should be able to taste spicy things other than "because I want it!"

    I enjoyed your lecture on the history of chocolate.
     
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  18. gb2098
    Skink

    gb2098 Member

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    with birds, while they are don't feel the heat from spicy food, many of them seem to like the taste of it. so you could have lizardmen food include a lot of chile peppers and such, which they perceive as being just flavorful sauces and garnish, but non-lizardmen would find unbearably spicy.
    http://www.thepipettepen.com/blog/spice-is-nice-for-birds/
    https://news.wisc.edu/curiosities-why-can-birds-eat-hot-peppers/
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...66/Why-birds-find-chilli-peppers-so-cool.html

    which might actually make for some interesting scenes
     

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