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8th Ed. How to use Ripperdactlys

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Moniker, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Moniker
    Kroxigor

    Moniker Member

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    Hello!

    I've yet to try a unit of these myself, but I'm going to have my first game with them tomorrow. Since nobody else has started a dedicated topic to these frenzied fliers, I'd like to be that fellow! Tell us your theories, your stories of success. Do knights fear their Killing Blow? Will one of them survive enough to take a shot at a Vampire? Are they sure fire bunker busters and wizard hunters? How do they do against warmachines?

    Please keep this on topic. Skink Chiefs on Ripperdactyls are a different topic.
     
    Eyeless1 likes this.
  2. Anton_S
    Temple Guard

    Anton_S Member

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    All theory since I don't have any but I'm thinking:

    1. Cheap units. If you're frenzied on a low Ld you should be cheap, or leading them around by the nose will be very worthwhile for the enemy. I think minimum unit size.

    2. Point them away from any direction you don't want them to go, or point them at high value targets they can kill or damage.

    3. Knights you might handle but Rippers are I3 so you have to be careful with Knights that do a lot of damage even when they don't get the charge. A flank is ideal of course, but not always easy to do.

    4. Vampire? Don't think so. Most Vampires will kill them before they strike unless it's a GW/Nightshroud build. A Quickblood/Red Fury Vampire will tear them apart and thank you for the free VP.

    5. Wizard hunting should be what you do most of the time. War machines could be harder to reach due to Frenzy.

    6. They should also be good at clearing away chaff.
     
  3. Shadoer
    Saurus

    Shadoer New Member

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    Well I've done some theory hammer on it but I haven't yet tried any of it.

    The main problem is that Frenzy with Leadership 5 and currently no way for a character to join the unit (till the FAQ, fingers crossed) means we have to keep the things close to the general or we have to throw it at a unit head on.

    The second problem, is that the Ripperdactyle is just Initiative 3... most of the guys we will want to kill are going to be higher initiative. (really it's kind of a waste to send them after goblins)

    If we want to use Rippers, we are going to have to work out some buff magic support to use on them, particularly doing something to up their initiative while lowering the enemies. Should we get the first strike in, it will greatly help our Rippers gain the advantage. My guess is if we were to go with High Magic, use Hand of Glory on them to up their Initiative and then maybe Miasma from Lore of Shadows to lower the enemy I... then we'd get the first shot in, but I don't think this is really an effective use of a magic phase.

    The sad thing is, if we have full access to the Lore of Light these guys would be awesome. Get TimeWarp off on them and they'd just slaughter through things like Chaos Knights like a hot knife through butter. Problem is we can't take loremaster of Light. :(
     
  4. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    The knights should fear the killing blow, and the armor piercing.
    The key seems to be the bloat toad. Going from 3 ripper attacks to 3+D3 is huge.
    What I've done; is take 2 or 3 units. It lets you pepper the enemy with bloat toads. Don't toad units you can beat anyway (fast cav, skirmishers, warmachines) but instead toad knights, then infantry if no knights are present.

    On a flank charge, the pummel cav.
    They even have a shot at taking on Skullcrushers with a flank charge (they might win by 1, and take away his frenzy).

    What you Do Not want do is hit anything in the front that has lots of attacks and S4 or more.
    You Do Not want to get into any fight with a fighting hero. Init 4 hero of any type is bad news for your rippers. They are WS2 and T3, with 4+ armor. You can't afford to give up those Ripper attacks and stomp for losing one before you swing.


    -Matt
     
  5. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    I am running two MSU Ripper units and have about half a dozen games with them against O&G, daemons, high elves, lizzies, WoC and ogres. Here are my views based on the experience thus far:

    1) Toad Rage - Rippers must hit the unit with the TR if they are really going to be effective. A unit of 3 will dish out 12-18 KB, AP attacks with re-rolls to hit (we can ignore the riders since anything they do is a bonus). Given the low WS, the re-roll is huge. They can be sent after other units like war machines and chafff but they won't be nearly as effective and will end up overrunning and likely be far away from the TR unit they want to hit.

    2) Fear, stomp & 4+ AS - Against troops subject to psychology, don't forget the fear check and also, don't forget the stomp. The Rippers are surprisingly resilient against S3 troops but definitely do better if they can get in a flank.

    3) Flank attacks, manoeuvre & patience - unless on a suicide charge, rippers should be hitting a flank/rear since they are fragile. Given swiftstride and flying, this is quite achievable and can be made much easier by either pinning the unit in place and then moving to a flank/rear position or positioning the rippers first and then arranging an anvil unit so that the rippers can come in the next turn. The key is using terrain & movement to offer multiple charge options and being patient - the rippers may not charge until turn 4 or later but it is definitely worth it to set up a flank/rear charge than trying to play smash mouth earlier in the game.

    4) Magic Boosts - Priority for boosting is initiative (hand of glory and/or shadow miasma nerfing), survivability (wyssan's or any hex that reduces enemy to hit or to wound) and then offensive punch (wyssans for S5, HoG for better WS or heavens magic to re-roll 1's to hit and to wound). This mix can vary somewhat depending on what you are going after. Note that the beastieboy is a great way to increase to I4 so marching him forward and/or walking between worlds is effective and when combined with HoG/miasma can be sufficient to go first even against elves.

    5) KB & AP- don't expect KB to win the game for you as it is only a 1 in 6 chance. It is sweet when it happens but don't bet the farm on an attack that requires KB to succeed or you will be in for a rude surprise. At the same time, the AP is quite useful as it provides -2 to saves normally and -3 when wyssans is in effect - but only if you remember to use it (i.e. I was so enamored with KB that I completely forgot about the AP in my first 3-4 games!)

    6) Target Selection for Toad Rage - Obviously, squishy bunker units (T3 and low armour save) are preferred. If possible, stay away from nurgle WoC, most monstrous cav and other units that are immune to KB, have high AS and are likely to really lay a beating on the rippers in CC. Against T4/S4 and better units with good armour saves, wyssans becomes critical in inflicting damage. Essentially, the rippers are going to die when thrown against tough opponents so try and at least get a few licks in before they are crushed.

    That's about it. When the stars are aligned nicely, Rippers can be a game changer but this in only likely to happen against high value T3 targets. Most of the time, the rippers will merely be helpful but their utility can be greatly improved by being patient and getting them into the right combat, on a flank and preferably with some type of magical augment.
     
  6. RipperDerek
    Temple Guard

    RipperDerek Member

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    That's a fair description. Basically, Ripperdactyls are terrible against any units that might give us trouble in combat; but against the things we can already beat, man, oh man, are they good! :p
     
  7. Anton_S
    Temple Guard

    Anton_S Member

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    Great post Stonecutter!
     
  8. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    Thanks, you are too kind. I figure I have to get a good post in every once in a while just through the sheer odds of probability :D
     
  9. Dreadgrass
    Ripperdactil

    Dreadgrass Member

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    A few additional combo's Im looking at with rippers:

    1) character hunting combined with Arcane Unforging

    Most armies these days seem to be running a bunkered magelord and a Hero-level BSB kitted out for defence. Both of which can be VERY susceptible to a ripperdactyl-assassin squad, especially if you can find out what items they have and plink off some of their defence.

    2 rippers in B2B means 6+2D3 attacks. so Worst case 8 attacks, hitting on 4+ with re-rolls is 6 hits, 3+ to wound (T3) is 4 wounds of which 1 SHOULD be KB, even if not, 4 wounds on a magelord without his wardsave is 1 dead mage. Against T4 (likely for the BSB) it's 3 wounds caused which with no defences is still a dead magelord, or with -2 to armour saves it would likely a dead BSB. As Stonecutter said above, Miasma/ Hand Of Glory would also be great, and almost essential for a good shot at high initiative enemies like elves/WoC.

    2) Screen your stegs/ Carno

    Ripperdactyls are monstrous cavalry, so a somewhat less illustrious role is to stand in front of your Stegs and Carnosaurs to try and catch cannonballs. With a 1/6 chance of the cannonball not bouncing, a 1/6 chance of failing to wound the Ripper, and a 1/6 chance of it only causing 1 wound to said Ripper there's only ~a 57% chance of the cannonball making it through to the big beasties behind the screen (48% If the beastie is an EotG's to give the Rippers a 6+ ward).

    It's also quite a fast screen, and can support an early "Walk Between Worlds" For a hell of a flank-assault.
     
  10. Dog On Todd
    Kroxigor

    Dog On Todd Member

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    Question about moving your Rippers:

    I understand the reform when they land so you aren't facing targets, but how do you then charge/move towards the target you want?

    The way I understood movement (and my knowledge of the rules is terrible) would be you march forward and reform, then march/wheel and reform so you can charge your target the following turn. So it would take 2 movements before your 3rd turn charge if they didn't put distraction units between you and your target on their 2nd/third movement so you would be stuck charging that.

    If this is the case I think I will use them mostly as a battering ram for chaff until I bump into a target I wanted with whatever is left.
     
  11. Anton_S
    Temple Guard

    Anton_S Member

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    You basically just plan ahead, taking into account what your opponent might do and decide if you'll want to charge next turn or not. Most of the time you'll have a 20" move so you should be able to reach a position you do want to charge from, but in case you don't just turn them away.
     
  12. Dog On Todd
    Kroxigor

    Dog On Todd Member

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    Thanks Anton,

    We'll see how my testing goes tomorrow :jimlad:
     
  13. Xlanax_lot
    Terradon

    Xlanax_lot Well-Known Member

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    Question: when the rippers are atacked in close combat do you use r2 of the skinks or resistence 3 for the riperdactils?
     
  14. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    Rippers are monstrous cav so the best value of either the rider or the mount is used. In this case, that is a mighty resistance/toughness of 3!! :D
     
  15. Boq-Ax
    Jungle Swarm

    Boq-Ax New Member

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    I'm about to run a dual Carno List, which will mean that skink priests will provide my magie phase. This andere the high amount of monsters in the list makes in important to taken out the opponents mages fast. Ripper came to mind, but i'm afraad thee dependance on I buffs makes them vullende without high magic
     
  16. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    Uh, guys none of you have pointed out that even though they don't get to place one the Skink Chief's Ripperdactyl can still gain a benefit from a Blot Toad, which in combination with magic items can make them much more surviveable, even though you can only have one blot toad per unit
     
  17. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    People still debate whether this is true or not. I'd still say it is, because it just says it allows the frenzy to add 11d3 instead of the usual 1 in attacks - not that it is tied to the toad rage special rule.
     
  18. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    Anyway, it would be because it's the SKINK that does the toad rage and it causes the ripper to do +d3 attacks, the Chiefs Ripper is still a Ripper meaning it would get to use the others' toads, just not place them, same as two units of rippers can use the same toad rage, even if it hadn't placed it
     
  19. classicflava
    Cold One

    classicflava Active Member

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    also always take a champion. if you want to take out a character cahrge in single file with the champ in front. all they can kill is the champion as wounds dont carry over. your other ripper then steps up and can attack the character. maz wounds they can do to you is 2. this is especially good for taking out hero level mages.

    Hand of glory also works really well with rippers. you cast the boosted version and they are hitting with almost all of their attacks and striking first.
     

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