Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by walrusstooth, Jul 4, 2011.
well theres the question, for sirmishing skinks do you find blow pipes or javilins better
Blowpipes, only because you don't have to pay extra points for them. There have been a few comparisons done between the two, and they work out pretty similar in effectiveness with small ads/disads for both. I say a light skirmishing unit should be as cheap as possible.
Do you always double tap and go for the -1 to hit
If you can and need a 6 to hit, definitely yes. But if it means you need a 7 to hit, not worth it and better to go with single shot. You want those poison rolls at all costs.
Myself, I would rather pay the extra points for javelins. The way that I usually end up playing my skirmishers is that they get way too close to the enemy unit they are after. With blowpipes, I could not stand and shoot (if they charge).
Yesterday, I took two units of 15 skirmishers with javelins and shield against a warrior of chaos army. The provided a distraction for a mounted unit (that had a vanguard move). The unit also contained a Tzench caster on a some wierd snake like mount. Anyway, the skirmishers killed all but the caster and my oppenent then charged them and over ran away from the watch tower .
I won the first turn and put 18 TG, a slann, and an old blood (with the blade of realities) in the tower. No way was he getting me out of that tower!
Personally, I can not imagine why you would take the blowgun. It absolutely blows.
1. move -1
2. over 6" -1
3 Double shot -1
so unless the enemy allows you to stand within 6" your pretty much hitting on 7s since you will always be moving.
Further, they have absolutely no combat capability or sustainability.
at least the javs have longer range, quick to fire, shield/hw so 6+ AS 6+WS
sure they cant shoot twice but most of the time the BG can't either. well unless your opponent is incompetent.
Chams, with BS4 ... well at least they can hit something.
BG skinks...if it wasnt for gravity...they couldn't hit the ground and any competent opponent will simply send the ash and trash and kill them off.
Others will disagree. but hey that is the beauty of the forum
Props on a great post. I could not have said it any better.
Good work! We need a rep button or something.
No one is going to let you stand within 6", but remember with a march move of 10" you can be 16" away at the start of a turn, move to within close range, then let fly. And 16" is a decent 'effective' range.
Blowpipes, because I use my Skinks as units for taking out small but tough units due to poison. Frankly, it doesn't matter what you're shooting at (much) but let's face it, assuming we have 10 skinks, we have 10 javelin shots- so they're more likely to hit, but you can only ever cause 10 wounds. Get lucky with blowpipes and you can do 20. Besides, try and get your skinks into cover, away from your opponent and slowly move back or to the side if you think they may charge- it worked for me. They are comparatively so fast that you can get behind a unit and just pepper them from there. Plus I think that the maximum you can hit on is a 5- but that might just be combat.
Please note that I am new, don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong!
Blow pipes all the way you never struggle to get into 6 inch range and still be safe, with a 12 inch move and 6 inch firing range you have a 18 inch threat at short range which means -2 for moving and double shot. Which is perfect for taking out war machines and harassing units, as you can always remain out of line a of sight. I agree the effectiveness is lost on skirmishers as the -3 kills skirmishers poison ability but just don't choose em as targets and let your : terra dons, mounted scar vets and magic take care of them.
If you are looking at too many negatives and are going to have to roll sevens,
drop the multi shoot and do a single shot so you don'y loose out on poison.
I'm in javelin camp. I only use blowpipes w/ chameleons. Batu spelled out the argument quite well.
As I have stated before, due to my (somewhate reckless) movement with skirmishers, I always take javelins. I use my chameleons for blowpipes. I also like the 2d6 blowpipes on the ancient steg (usually with a chief).
blow pipes seem the logical choice because they do not cost extra points any way. I soppose that javlins give quick to fire and a shield but there is no such thing as combatb sustainiblity with skinks, any one who wish to get into combat with them will beat them into a bloody pulp. They way i use them is I run them up, they shoot, then they flee the enemys charge the next turn. Usualing most of them get away, rally, and at the end of the day the perserve most of there pionts while softening up the opponet.
Also some one above mentioned the range of javlins to be greater then blowpips, is that true?
Both javelins and blowpipes have the same range.
There are advantages to both types of skirmisher.
If you are facing high toughness low armour monsters then the double shots of the blowpipe kills faster but you have to get in close to gain full advantage so you are easier to charge and it is harder to successfully flee.
If you like manouvering tactically then the increased effective range and the increaset combat potential of the javelin skink is worth the extra point.
The best option is probably to have a mix of both type of skirmisher in your list and use each type where the are more effective.
Blowpipes and Javelins are the same range. I am guessing that when someone says the javelin has better range, they are simply referring to the Quick to Fire special rule, which means javelin skinks to do not suffer a pentalty for moving and shooting. In some eyes, this can translate to a better effective range. I could very well be wrong though.
In my opinion, Blowpipes are better. The only situations I like javelins, is if I have to move AND shoot long distance, or if I am shooting into cover. This is not an issue though, because if you are using skinks to move an enemy out of cover, you are misusing skinks. There are other tools better suited for that job, i.e. salamanders, terradons dropping rocks. This only leaves one situation in which javs are better: moving and shooting long distance. How much better? 1 wound max, if my math is correct. Yet this too, I find, rarely happens, as I am often able to pick and choose when I shoot.
It's easy to say that any competent opponent will not allow you to XYZ, but that is only true if you are not competent in using your skinks. And also, somebody mentioned combat potential and skink skirmishers in the same sentence...giggle.
Edit: I did not figure in shooting against skirmishers. I imagine javs would have the upper hand in most cases here.
Blowpipes all the way
If blowpipe and jav+sh were the same cost I would go with jav+sh. I would much prefer if we could choose jav or BP at same cost and then had the option to choose sh @1pt.
The key selling point for blowpipes is the double shot, if you move then you have to be within 6" of your target or you effectively lose double shot. This makes you far more vulnerable to being caught in a charge if you move close enough to shoot effectively.