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AoS Kroak's spells

Discussion in 'Rules Help' started by Joshmunga, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Joshmunga
    Skink

    Joshmunga Member

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    Do the rules on the warscroll for celestial deliverance beat the rule of one for casting? Or does the "three times in the hero phase" get nullified by the rule of one?
     
  2. Aginor
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    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately yes, it is option two. He can only cast it once.
     
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  3. Killer Angel
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    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Aginor is right, it was excplicitly stated in a dedicated question in a FAQ (I'm typing from my phone so I don't have it at hand)
     
  4. Aginor
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    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    ...and I am still a a bit angry about it.
    It was one if his major points of being an OP wizard.

    Now, I understand it may make him imbalanced, but why don't they just remove it from the warscroll then? It just confuses people.
    ...and in open play you just ignore the rules of one anyway. No need to explicitly put it on the warscroll.
     
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  5. Killer Angel
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    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    It was a stupid move merely because it was the main point of Kroak. Even in 8th edition he was the only one capable to cast the same spell more than once in a turn. It has always been THE feature of the character.
     
  6. Hu3pfka3s3
    Jungle Swarm

    Hu3pfka3s3 New Member

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    Well it just makes him fucking broken and he would kill whole armys alone^^
     
  7. Killer Angel
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    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    The problem is not Kroak, but more the things you can do with vortex and astrolith. They "fixed" the wrong thing
     
  8. Aginor
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    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Imagine he could ignore the rules of One, but his point cost was 800 points.
    Why not?
     
  9. Joshmunga
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    Joshmunga Member

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    speaking of the vortex. While he is up there, can he be attacked by melee at all?
     
  10. BlacKnight
    Jungle Swarm

    BlacKnight New Member

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    No, he cannot.

    Now he can definitely can get shot or magicked off the vortex, but he's impervious to being punched in the face while sitting up there.
     
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  11. Joshmunga
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    Joshmunga Member

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    wow that's pretty good! Now I see why everyone likes this combo
     
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  12. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    If you haven't already you need to read @darren watson tactics and reports he uses Kroak with devastating results :)
     
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  13. Canas
    Bastiladon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Those aren't even the issue, though they make the main issue worse, the issue with magic as a whole is that everything deals mortal wounds and only has to pass the casting roll which makes it stupendously dependable when you can spam it... If they weren't mortal wounds but instead had a magic save for each unit the whole issue wouldn't exist in the first place cuz 2-3 spells-casts wouldn't be able to reliable kill anything apart from the sturdiest of targets...
     
  14. Killer Angel
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    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    At that point even Kroak is not the issue, because the real problem is Mortal Wounds... and frankly there are things that are totally unbalanced from this pov, to the point that even a Kroak with no Rule of One couldn't compare.
     
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  15. Seraphage
    Bastiladon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    I surely do not consider myself the most optimistic guy but the more I play AoS the more balanced it feels ! The MW spam definitely needs to be changed a bit but by avoiding those with the units that you must, everything's fine :D
     
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  16. Killer Angel
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    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    That's true ^

    I could say that warhammer has never been a balanced game, there will always be units or game mechanics stronger than something else.
    This turn favors MW and units that rely on it... the next year will be something else.
     
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  17. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    Why not just house rule a +6 save against MW that helps a little.
     
  18. Canas
    Bastiladon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh, that house-rule is a band-aid solution which is never fun. Plus weakening mortal wounds significantly results in stuff like Eternity starhosts with re-rollable 2+ saves being all but immortal....They should've just gone for a seperate magical and physical save it'd solve basicly everything by giving the two options an advantage and a disadvantage. Instead of how we now have mortal wounds which for all intends and purposes are just a flat out better version of normal wounds. There's essentially no drawback to them regardless of what you're facing. The only bad scenario is that the attack that deals them is for some inexplicable reason bad, but as far as I can tell there's no common realistic situations for that. (e.g. using a judicator's thunderbolt crossbow against an army consisting of 1 model units would be one, but it'd be quite a weird situation...).




    Mwha, AoS is reasonably balanced, and something needs to be FotM, but mortal wounds is too basic a mechanic for it to be the "strongest" mechanic. It requires 0 effort & risk to pull off mortal wounds. Which makes it problematic. Other mechanics that don't seem to be that well thought out in AoS seem to be shooting with it's relative long range compared to movement & the board, the lack of cover (no way to protect your hero by surrounding him with guards if the guards aren't massive) and the ability to both move and shoot (hello infinite kiting...) and the fact that a lot of abilities are essentially magic but without the option for dispelling. All three require very little effort and risk while having (potentially) tremendous payoffs and none of them should be FoTM.
     
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