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8th Ed. Lizardmen 8th Ed. FAQ

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by hardyworld, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

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    Games-Workshop has been excessively slow in providing Errata/FAQ out for the last several books, including Lizardmen. This could be because 9th Edition is on the horizon, but in the meantime, players need a set of rules to use. Below is a collection of Lizardmen FAQ based on the 8th Ed. rulebook.

    In an effort to have a Lizardman FAQ published by GW, I continually encourage you to send your FAQ list to GW so they can include as many questions as possible in their FAQ when they finally release it. You may choose to use the perpetually incomplete collection of FAQ below, but I'd encourage your rules questions to be in your own words and be as written as detailed as possible for GW's consideration. The GW e-mail is: gamefaqs@gwplc.com

    This is intended to be a thread dedicated to collection of FAQ and answers. The answers presented here are not official in any way, but are provided by players to assist fellow players. All answers are given attempting to interpret the Rules As Written (RAW) as it is not our position to Errata Games-Workshop's rules. Some suggestions are provided that deviate from RAW for your consideration. Ultimately, it is up to you (the player) to determine how to best play under the current RAW; this is where The Most Important Rule (pg. 2) and The Spirit of the Game (pg. 3) must be used above everything presented below.

    Please provide additional questions (as more clarifications are always needed) and corrections to the answers (undoubtedly several are incorrect/incomplete) as you see fit. I will try my best to be as inclusive to all Rules As Written (RAW) interpretations as possible, as long as they are self-consistent.

    Hopefully this will get 'stickied' onto the forum to assist all players visiting the forum. In the future, hopefully most will be removed after an Official FAQ is provided and that file will be referenced instead of being answered here.


    Army Special Rules
    1) Q: When a unit with the Cold Blooded special rule (pg. 30) is required to add or subtract additional dice for a Leadership test, how does it work?
    A: Take the test on however many dice it would normally be taken plus the extra dice from the Cold Blooded special rule and remove the highest (7th Ed. LM FAQ v1.5).

    2) Q: Do Supporting Attacks benefit from bonus attacks granted by the Predatory Fighter special rule (pg. 30)?

    A: No. Models declaring Supporting Attacks "only ever make a single Attack, regardless of the number of Attacks on his profile, or any bonus Attacks he might otherwise be entitled to because of special rules or other unusual effects" (BRB pg.49). "Monstrous Infantry models can make...Supporting Attacks..., up to a maximum of three, rather than the usual one supporting attack" (BRB pg. 81) (matching Kroxigor base attacks). No exception is included in the Lizardmen rulebook; therefore, Supporting Attacks do not normally benefit from bonus attacks otherwise granted by the Predatory Fighter special rule (theoretically possible that a supporting Kroxigor may have his number of attacks reduced to less than 3, which then would allow Predatory Fighter attacks to apply to his supporting attacks up to the maximum of 3 total attacks).

    3) Q: Does a natural die roll to hit of a 6 always provide elligible models with the Predatory Fighter special rule (pg. 30) an additional attack even if a 7+ is required to hit? In close combat, does a natural die roll to hit of a 6 always automatically wound for models with the Poisoned Attacks special rule even if a 7+ is required to hit?

    A: Yes & Yes. The Predatory Fighter rule states "whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit in close combat, it immediately makes another Attack; roll To Hit and To Wound as normal." The Poisoned Attacks rule states "a model with the Poisoned Attacks special rule wounds his target automatically if his natural dice roll to hit is a 6...Note that if a Poisoned shooting attack needs to roll a 7 or more to hit...then the Poisoned attacks rule does not come into play." Also note that although bonus attacks are granted from Predatory Fighter (and Poisoned Close Combat Attacks will automatically wound) on a to hit roll of a 6; you will still need to hit the target on the required 7+ roll with each attack (BRB FAQ v1.8).

    4) Q: Do abilities/spells that allow units re-roll (BRB pg. 7) their To Hit rolls count the re-rolled die rolls of a 6 when determining which rolls grant additional attacks from Predatory Fighter rule and cause automatic wounds from Poisoned Attacks rule?

    A: Yes, a re-rolled die value is always counted for application of special rules.

    Magic Spells
    5) Q: Does the Engine of the Gods' Burning Alignment spell (pg. 45) allow one to target all enemy units within range even if they are not in the forward arc or are in combat?
    A: No, the spell is classified as a Direct Damage spell and has no listed exceptions that would allow targeting units outside the forward arc or units in close combat (BRB pg. 31). It is hoped that this will be changed in an Errata since the 7th Ed. version of this spell specifically stated both as exceptions to the BRB targeting rules. Additionally, the wording included in the 8th Ed. rulebook says "targets all enemy units within..." may indicate intention to apply to all units in range or possible changes in allowed targets come 9th Ed. rules. Please agree with your opponent before starting play.

    6) Q: Does Lord Kroak's Deliverance of Itza spell (pg. 52) allow one to target all enemy units within range even if they are not in the forward arc or are in combat?

    A: No, the spell is classified as a Direct Damage spell and has no listed exceptions that would allow targeting units outside the forward arc or units in close combat (BRB pg. 31). It is hoped that this will be changed in an Errata since the 7th Ed. version of this spell specifically stated both as exceptions to the BRB targeting rules. Additionally, the wording included in the 8th Ed. rulebook says "targets all enemy units within..." may indicate intention to apply to all units in range or possible changes in allowed targets come 9th Ed. rules. Please agree with your opponent before starting play.

    7) Q: How does the Drain Magic (pg. 60) spell affect ongoing spell effects that are not Remains in Play, Augments, or Hexes (Such as: HE High Magic lore attribute, WE High Magic lore attribute, WE Dark Magic lore attribute, WoC Lore of Nurgle lore attribute, WoC Lore of Slaanesh lore attribute, Plague of Rust, Wither, Life Magic lore attribute, Vampire lore attribute, Nehekhara lore attribute, LM High Magic lore attribute, Invocation of Nehek, Raise Dead, Regrowth, Savage Dominion, Dreaded 13th Spell turning models into rats, and WoC rolls on the EotG chart as a result of a spell.)?

    A: The rules are unclear on how this spell affects several spell effects within the wording of the Drain Magic spell, specifically "the effects of all other spells on the target unit immediately come to an end" (pg. 60). It is suggested that Drain Magic would negate the HE High Magic lore attribute, WE High Magic lore attribute, WE Dark Magic lore attribute, WoC Lore of Nurgle lore attribute, WoC Lore of Slaanesh lore attribute, Plague of Rust, and Wither (since they are ongoing spell effects) and not affect the Life Magic lore attribute, Vampire lore attribute, Nehekhara lore attribute, LM High Magic lore attribute, Invocation of Nehek, Raise Dead, Regrowth, Savage Dominion, Dreaded 13th Spell turning models into rats, and WoC rolls on the EotG chart as a result of a spell (since they are instant effects not ongoing effects). We recommend agreeing with your opponent before starting play.

    8) Q: Is a unit targeted by Walk Between Worlds (pg. 60) allowed to make other manoeuvers other than a simple move (e.g. move backwards, move sideways, reform, or garrison a building, etc.)?

    A: Yes. The spell allows the unit to move "as if it were the Remaining Moves sub-phase" which includes any typical "move" actions with the range of the move as defined by the spell and with typical alterations to the effective distance moved as defined in the movement section (BRB pg. 13-27).

    9) Q: Is a unit targeted by Walk Between Worlds (pg. 60) allowed to move even if it wasn't allowed to move in the Remaining-Moves sub-phase (e.g. if the unit just failed a charge, is fleeing, just rallied, made other compulsory moves, or is engaged in close combat, etc.)?

    A: The rules do not clearly state how this should be handled. It is suggested that any unit not fleeing and not engaged in close combat may be allowed to move as described by the spell. The requirements for moving "units that did not charge, flee, rally or compulsorily move" apply to the current Movement phase (BRB pg. 26) and the effects of Walk Between Worlds allows a unit to immediately move in the Magic Phase "as if it were the Remaining Moves sub-phase" (not as if it were the previous Movement Phase's Remaining Moves sub-phase). Fleeing units and units engaged in Close Combat cannot move during a Remaining Moves sub-phase (BRB pg. 26).

    10) Q: Can a unit use Walk Between Worlds (pg. 60) to move through a garrisoned building?

    A: No. The temporary effect of the Ethereal special rule allows "creatures treat all terrain as open terrain for the purposes of movement. They may not finish their movement inside impassable terrain" (BRB pg. 68). The allowed targets to move through does not include units. Therefore, a unit garrisoned inside a building restricts Ethereal units from moving through them (unless stated otherwise, such as Hexwraiths).

    11) Q: Can a unit with the Fly special rule (BRB pg. 70) use its flying movement while moving as an effect from Walk Between Worlds (pg. 60)? If so, can a unit of Terradon Riders use their Drop Rocks special rule (pg. 42) while moving as an effect from Walk Between Worlds?

    A: Yes & No. No restrictions are provided that would limit a unit from using its typical movement abilities (e.g. fly, hover) during a move as an effect from Walk Between Worlds (e.g. a unit of Terradon Riders may fly over friendly units, enemy units, and/or a garrisoned building). However, Walk Between Worlds does not list any other abilities (other than the move itself) that the unit may conduct as a spell effect, so Drop Rocks may not be activated. The effects of the spell occur during the Magic Phase and the Drop Rocks special rule may only be activated during the Remaining Moves sub-phase.

    12) Q: Can Arcane Unforging (pg. 60) affect Dwarf Runic Weapons/Armour/Talismans and Daemonic Gifts the same way as magic items? Can Arcane Unforging (pg. 60) affect Dwarf War Machines inscribed with Runes the same way as magic items?

    A: Yes & No. Runic Weapons/Armour/Talismans are defined to count as a Magic items corresponding to their type & Daemonic Gifts count as Enchanted Items (unless otherwise stated as a different type); in either case, they can be destroyed by the spell's effects. Contrarily, while runes may bestow magical effects onto a war machine, neither the war machine, nor the runes themselves count as magic items. Similarily, note that other character abilities exist that do not count as Magic Items (e.g. Vampire Powers, Big Names, Marks, Mutations & Powers, Gifts of Chaos, Virtues, etc.) and, therefore cannot be targeted by Arcane Unforging's second effect.

    13) Q: Can Arcane Unforging (pg. 60) target a unit's standard bearer? If so, if the standard bearer (or Battle Standard Bearer) is carrying a magical banner that is destroyed by Arcane Unforging; do all the normal rules for standard bearer (BRB pg. 94) (or Battle Standard Bearer, BRB pg. 107) still apply thereon?

    A: Yes & Yes. A unit's standard bearer (or Battle Standard Bearer) may be targeted and damaged as described by the spell. However, the Standard Bearer "cannot normally be removed as a casualty unless only he and the Champion (if there is one) remain in the unit. This applies even if the Standard Bearer is the target of an effect that affects only a single model...Another rank and file warrior is still assumed to pick up the banner." (BRB pg 94). If the magic banner is destroyed in this manner, all other normal Standard Bearer (or Battle Standard Bearer) rules still apply. The banner is lost, but the standard remains.

    Magic Items
    14) Q: Are Regeneration saves allowed against the Blade of Realities (pg. 62)?
    A: Yes, Regeneration is not a type of Ward Save. Regeneration saves may be taken as normal.

    15) Q: Does Piranha Blade grant the wielder Multiple Wounds (D3) and Armour Piercing special rules for all types of attacks or only attacks using the Piranha Blade (pg. 62)?

    A: "When a weapon does not say when the characteristic bonus applies, then it only applies when striking, or being struck, in close combat" (BRB FAQ v1.8). It is recommended that Special Rules granted by Magic Weapons be treated in the same way; meaning it applies to all attacks while striking with the Magic Weapon itself and not any other hits the wielder may inflict through unusual attacks.

    16) Q: Do hits caused by the Egg of Quango (pg. 63) follow the 'Resolving Unusual Attacks' rules (BRB pg. 42)? If so, how are hits distributed when used by a character in a challenge?

    A: Yes. The BRB FAQ v1.8 states that some unusual attacks (Breath Weapon, Stomp, & Thunderstomp) do "not hit models not in the challenge", but does not cover this unusual attack. It is suggested that hits from the Egg of Quango are allocated in a challenge the same way other unusual attacks (such as a Breath Weapon) are allocated.

    17) Q: Are the strength or abilities of hits caused by the Egg of Quango (pg. 63) affected by magic spells or magic banners such as Wyssan's Wildform, Soublight, Razor Standard, or Banner of Eternal Flame?

    A: No. Spells and banners typically target a unit or models within the unit. While the bearer of the item may be affected by these spells and banners, the item itself is not an allowable target by these spells or banners. Hits caused by the Egg of Quango are unaffected.

    Characters
    18) Q: Does the skink attendant as part of a Slann's character profile count as a Skink Character for the purposes of the Predatory Fighter special rule (pg. 30) and allowing to test to restrain pursuit?
    A: No. The Character types that allow units with Predatory Fighter to test to restrain pursuit are listed as part of the Predatory Fighter rule (pg. 30).

    19) Q: Can a Slann join a unit of skirmishers?

    A: Yes. The Mage-Priest Palanquin special rule is not a mount as the character is still considered to "have the troop type Infantry, but is never considered to be 'models on foot'" (pg. 31). "A character on a mount cannot join a unit of Skirmishers" (BRB pg. 77).

    20) Q: Can a Slann exchange spells with another Slann (via the Telepathic Confabulation special rule, pg. 31) so that he has the same spell twice? If so, can he effectively cast the spell two times in the same magic phase?

    A: Yes & Yes. There are no known restrictions against it; normally, Spell Generation rules (BRB pg. 490) would prevent this from occurring, but Telepathic Confabulation does not follow these rules. Please note that this could only happen with Signature Spells or two spells in the Lore of High Magic (because of the Spell Generation rules, BRB pg. 490, at the beginning of the game).

    21) Q: Can a Slann cast a Magic Missile or Direct Damage spell from his bound item through a Skink Priest using the Arcane Vassal special rule (pg. 36)?

    A: No, the Arcane Vassal special rule applies to eligible spells cast by a Slann, bound spells from items are not cast by the characters carrying them, but by the item itself (BRB pg. 37).

    22) Q: Can a Slann cast a Magic Missile of Direct Damage spell through a Skink Priest, using the Arcane Vassal special rule, that is currently fleeing?

    A: Yes, there are no restrictions that would not allow a Slann to use a fleeing Skink-Priest as an Arcane Vassal.

    23) Q: Can a Slann in a unit of Temple Guard with five or more models with the Guardian's special rule (pg. 35), issue or accept a challenge? If so, can the Slann be moved to the first rank of the unit from the second rank even if five or more models with the Guardians special rule remain in the unit?

    A: Yes & Yes. When the Slann's unit is engaged in close combat, the Slann is subject to the challenge rules (BRB pg. 102). The Slann's position in a unit with the Guardians special rule applies when the Slann joins the unit (pg. 35). The Slann's position within the unit may be altered during gameplay, such as when accepting and refusing challenges (BRB pg. 102). It is assumed the Slann may immediately rejoin the 2nd rank once any rule forcing him to the front rank is no longer applicable.

    24) Q: What happens when a Slann is nominated to be retired to the back rank as a result of refusing a challenge?

    A: The rules state the Slann's "Leadership cannot be used for and Leadership tests that take place that turn" (BRB pg. 102). This includes using Inspiring Presence, if the Slann happens to be the General. Additionally, if the Slann is also the army's Battle Standard Bearer it "loses the Hold Your Ground rule until the end of the turn" (BRB FAQ v1.8). If the Slann is in a unit of Temple Guard, the Sacred Duty rule still applies granting Stubborn and Immune to Psychology to the unit.

    25) Q: Can other characters join Chakax and his unit of Temple Guard (besides the Slann), the unit is Unbreakable by the Ultimate Bodyguard special rule (pg. 55)? Can other characters join Lord Kroak and his unit of Temple Guard, the unit is Unbreakable by the Eternity Guardians special rule (pg. 52)? Can Chakax join a unit of Temple Guard with Lord Kroak?

    A: No (unless the character is unbreakable), No (unless the character is unbreakable), & Yes. The Unbreakable rule (BRB pg. 78) states that "characters that are not themselves Unbreakable are not permitted to join units that are (even if a character was to become temporarily Unbreakable for some reason)." Chakax may join a unit containing Lord Kroak because his ability to become Unbreakable within the Temple Guard unit is not considered 'temporary'.

    26) Q: Can a Skink Chief riding a Terradon/Ripperdactyl (or Tiktaq'To) join units of Terradon Riders or Ripperdactyl Riders?

    A: No, the rules in the Warhammer rulebook character section state characters "cannot join a unit of flyers" (BRB pg. 97) and no exception is included in the 8th Ed. Lizardmen rulebook (an exception was included in the 7th Ed. Lizardmen rulebook). Tiktaq'To has a special rule that confers his weapon skill to terradons in his unit and a -1 To Hit penalty when shooting at his unit, but he currently isn't allowed to join units. It is suggested that you allow skink characters mounted on a flyer to join units of Terradon Riders or Ripperdactyl Ridders, since it appears it was intended that they would be allowed to join these units (but recommend agreeing with your opponent before starting play). It is hoped that this will be changed in an Errata and/or 9th Ed. BRB.

    27) Q: Does the Skink Chief's mount option Ripperdactyl gain D3 additional attacks and re-roll failed To Hit rolls while attacking a unit marked with a Lustrian Blot Toad marker?

    A: No, as written, the mount does not have the Toad Rage special rule (pg. 43), which grants the additional attacks and re-roll failed hits. However, the rule was likely not included in the mount's profile because the same rule provides the ability to mark a unit with a Blot Toad marker and it makes sense that the mount would benefit from attacking marked units. It is suggested that the mount be granted the additional attacks and ability to re-roll hits while attacking a marked unit, but recommend agreeing with your opponent before starting play.

    28) Q: Do skink characters mounted on a Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon gain an armour save from the Howdah?

    A: No, Howdah rules in the 7th Ed. Lizardmen rulebook conferred a 2+ armour save, but no such rule exists in the 8th Ed. book. Unless Errata'd, mounted characters on Stegadons only gain the standard 6+ armour save for being mounted.

    29) Q: If a Stegadon is taken as a mount can the character’s BS be used when firing the howdah weapons?

    A: No (7th Ed. LM FAQ v1.5).

    Core Units
    30) Q: Are opponents' close combat attacks against Kroxigors in Skink Cohort units optional or mandatory by the Spawn-kin rule (pg. 38)?
    A: The rules are unclear. The rule states "Unless otherwise stated, close combat attacks can only target Kroxigor within a mixed unit if an enemy model is either in base contact with a Kroxigor, or if an enemy model is in base contact with a Skink who is in turn in base contact with a Kroxigor" (pg. 38). This language is ambiguous. One way the rule reads, opposing models' close combat attacks that meet the stated requirements MUST attack the Kroxigors instead of skinks. This would provide skink characters in base contact with a Kroxigor unprecedented protection from close combat attacks. Unless this is confirmed from Games-Workshop, it is best to assume that the words "can only" in the quoted sentence from the Spawn-kin rule be replaced with "may" to provide opponents' the option to attack Kroxigors or skinks when the qualifications of the rule are met (this may have been the intended rule interpretation). We recommend agreeing with your opponent before starting play.

    31) Q: Can opponents' Supporting Attacks target Kroxigors within a Skink Cohort unit by using the Spawn-kin special rule (pg. 38)?

    A: No. When an opponents' front rank model is in base to base contact with a skink that is in turn in base contact with a Kroxigor, the front rank model may attack the Kroxigor by the Spawn-kin rule (pg. 38), but Supporting Attacks do not meet the requirements to attack Kroxigors by this rule because those models are not "in base contact with a Skink who is in turn in base contact with a Kroxigor". Note that when an opponents' front rank model is in base to base contact with a Kroxigor in a Skink Cohort unit, then Supporting Attacks may attack the Kroxigor as normal.

    32) Q: Can Skinks/Kroxigors behind the rank of Kroxigors in the 2nd rank (in the unit's 4th rank) provide Supporting Attacks from within a Skink Cohort unit while in Horde formation?

    A: No, due to the Spawn-kin rule (pg. 38), Kroxigors in a Skink Cohort unit count as occupying ranks equal to a skink's footprint. Skinks/Kroxigors behind the Kroxigors in the 2nd rank would, therefore, count as being in the 4th rank of the unit and the Horde special rule only allows models to "make Supporting Attacks from the third rank, not just the second" (BRB pg. 49).

    33) Q: Q: Do Kroxigors count towards the minimum unit size of a unit of Skink Cohorts?

    A: No (7th Ed. LM FAQ v1.5).

    Special Units
    34) Q: Does the Bastiladon's Thunderous Bludgeon (pg. 49) +1 To Hit bonus apply to models that are engaged in the rear or to models engaged in the creature's rear arc?
    A: The Rear arc, the rule says this attack "receives a +1 To Hit bonus against models in the creature's rear arc", which means in some situations a model in base to base contact on the flank may be +1 to hit or a model in base to base contact on the rear may not be +1 to hit.

    35) Q: Does the Bastiladon's Thunderous Bludgeon (pg. 49) resolve at Strength 10 only against models in the rear arc or on any model in base contact?

    A: Any model in base contact, the "in the creature's rear arc" applies to +1 to hit.

    36) Q: Can the Bastiladon's Ark of Sotek (pg. 49) only hit units that are at least partially within its front arc, and to which it is unblocked light of sight (BRB pg. 39)? Is the Ark of Sotek allowed to target enemies that are in close combat?

    A: Yes & No. The attack is defined as a "special shooting attack" (pg. 49) and no exceptions are included in the rules that would allow targets outside the normal targeting restrictions (BRB pg. 39). While the Bastiladon has an exception that allows the shooting attack to be activated while engaged in close combat there are no stated exceptions in the allowable targets. The wording included in the 8th Ed. rulebook says "all enemy units within..." may indicate intention to bypass the normal arc/LoS/targeting rules. Please agree with your opponent before starting play.

    37) Q: Does the Bastiladon's Solar Engine (pg. 49) +1 Initiative stack on friendly cold-blooded units?

    A: No. The Solar Engine special rule says "All friendly units with the Cold-blooded special rule that are within 6" of one or more Bastiladons with a Solar Engine gain +1 Initiative."

    38) Q: Does the Terradon’s Drop Rocks (pg. 42) ability count as a shooting attack?

    A: Yes. Treat it as an out-of-sequence shooting attack that hits automatically (7th Ed. LM FAQ v1.5).

    39) Q: How are Lustrian Blot Toad Markers placed if opposing sides both have Ripperdactyl Riders?

    A: The rules are unclear. We recommend either simultaneous placement (by writing down your placement(s) and then reveal them to each other) or alternating placement (similar to Scout deployment rules by rolling off, BRB pg. 79). Please agree with your opponent before starting play.

    40) Q: For a model with the Mage-Priest Palanquin special rule to be placed in the 2nd rank of a Temple Guard unit, do at least 5 models in the front rank need to have the Guardians special rule (pg. 35)?

    A: Yes. The only character with the Guardians special rule is Chakax, so if any other character joins the front rank of a unit of Temple Guard, for a Slann to be deployed in the 2nd rank of the unit, the unit must be widened enough to allow 5 models in the front rank with the Guardians special rule.

    Rare Units
    41) Q: Can Stegadons and Ancient Stegadons choose to stand and shoot their missile weapons as a charge reaction?
    A: Yes, apart from the giant bow (7th Ed. LM FAQ v1.5).

    42) Q: Does the Engine of the Gods' Arcane Configuration special rule (pg. 45) stack with other Engine of the Gods on the table (friend or foe)? If two friendly Engine of the Gods are on the table can each choose a different lore for Arcane Configuration?

    A: No & No. The rule states "If you have one or more Engine of the Gods on the battlefield at the start of your magic phase, select one of the eight Lores of Battle Magic from the Warhammer rulebook. Until the start of your next Magic phase, the casting values for all spells from the selected lore are reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 3)." Therefore, there is no benefit for having more than 1 model with the Arcane Configuration special rule on your side; it does not stack and only 1 lore may be chosen per Magic phase (note that opposing sides with Arcane Configuration can choose two different lores so 2 lores could have -1 casting values at the same time).

    43) Q: In a unit of Salamander Hunting Packs containing more than one Salamander that is resolving hits using the Spout Flames special rule (pg. 46), do you resolve the number of hits against a target unit by each Salamander sequentially (remove casualties from the first salamander before resolving hits from the second Spout Flames) or simultaneously (determine total number of hits from all salamanders' Spout Flames before removing casualties)?

    A: The rules are unclear. The 7th Ed. Lizardmen Armybook specifically required that each Salamander's hits be resolved entirely before proceeding to the next (sequentially), but it was not included in the 8th Ed. Lizardmen Armybook Spout Flames special rule (pg. 46). It is recommended that the same order (resolving each salamander's hit entirely before resolving the next's) be applied now.

    44) Q: Can Razordon Hunting Packs choose to flee from a second or subsequent charge from the frontal arc after it has used its stand and shoot charge reaction that phase?

    A: Yes. The Instinctive Defence special rule says "Razordon Hunting Pack must Stand and Shoot if it is able to do so." (pg. 47). Therefore, when not able to do so (i.e. as a declared reaction from a second charge from the frontal arc), the Razordon is not affected by the Instinctive Defence special rule after already declaring its stand and shoot charge reaction that phase. Note that the Razordon Hunting Pack may declare normal reactions from any charge where Stand and Shoot is not a legal reaction declaration (such as a charge from the flank or rear).

    45) Q: Do wounds suffered by handlers count toward combat resolution? Do handlers removed from the table count when determining if a panic test is required by Heavy Casualties (BRB pg. 62)?

    A: No & No. "Handlers aren't really a combat unit per se, so we ignore them for most gaming purposes, treating the [monstrous beast(s) themself(s)] as the extent of the unit." (BRB pg. 73).

    46) Q: When one Salamander/Razordon in a unit of multiple Salamanders/Razordons misfires, are all the shots fired by the unit negated or is each roll on the artillery die resolved accordingly?

    A: In the 7th Ed. Lizardmen Armybook & 7th Ed. LM FAQ v1.5, each Salamander's/Razordon's roll was resolved accordingly with a misfire from one creature having no effect applied to other creatures' shots. It is recommended that the same application of the rule be applied now. If a Monster Reaction test is required as a result of a misfire, resolve all shots fired before taking the test for the unit.

    47) Q: How are Handlers for units of multiple Salamanders/Razordons managed for purposes of determining when to take Monster Reaction tests?

    A: The Hunting Pack rule (pg. 46), by the Monsters and Handlers rule (BRB pg. 73), indicates that a Monster Reaction test must only be taken "once all the handlers have been removed." Therefore, only immediately once all handlers are dead and at least 1 salamander/razordon remains.

    48) Q: How are Handlers for units of multiple Salamanders/Razordons managed for purposes of determining removal of handlers upon death of their monstrous beast?

    A: The rules are unclear. The Hunting Pack rules (pg. 46), by the Monsters and Handlers rule (BRB pg. 73), indicates "if the [monstrous beast(s) are] removed, so are [their] handlers." Option 1 (Preferred): Experienced players suggest removal of handlers in this fashion only occurs once the last monstrous beast dies. Option 2: Since the handlers are typically treated as a single 'pool of handlers' by players during a game, the Lizardman player may choose to match each remaining handler with a monstrous beast whenever a monstrous beast is to be removed from play (momentarily defining each pack within the Hunting Pack, pg. 94-95), divided as evenly as possible between the monstrous beasts, and have the handlers removed from play (with their monstrous beasts) accordingly. Both options follow the RAW as best they can, please agree with your opponent before starting play.

    49) Q: How are Handlers for units of multiple Salamanders/Razordons managed for purposes of determining how Handler's allocate close combat attacks?

    A: The rules are unclear. The Hunting Pack rule (pg. 46), by the Monsters and Handlers rule (BRB pg. 73), indicates handlers "can direct their attacks against any enemy in base contact with their monster." Option 1 (Preferred): Experienced players suggest any handler may allocate their attacks as they wish through any monstrous beast model in their unit with no limitations. Option 2: Since the handlers are typically treated as a 'pool of handlers' by players during a game, the Lizardman player may choose to match each remaining handler with a monstrous beast at the beginning of the close combat phase (momentarily defining each pack within the Hunting Pack, pg. 94-95), divided as evenly as possible between the monstrous beasts, and allocate each handler's attacks (through the monstrous beast in his pack) accordingly. A secondary option when using Option 1 & while using Option 1 for Question #48: a player may choose to define the maximum number of handlers that may attack through each monstrous beast at 4, the maximum number of handlers per pack (pg. 94-95) (thus assuming any leftover handlers are too far back in the ranks to direct any attacks). Both options follow the RAW as best they can, please agree with your opponent before starting play.

    50) Q: When a unit of Salamanders/Razordons is assaulting a building, can handlers be chosen as part of the assault party? Can handlers allocate their attacks through Salamanders/Razordons while assaulting a building?

    A: No & Yes. "Handlers aren't really a combat unit per se, so we ignore them for most gaming purposes" (BRB pg. 73), so only the monstrous beasts can be chosen as part of the assaulting party. "In close combat, the handlers can direct their attacks against any enemy in base contact with their monster." (BRB pg. 73) & "An assault isn't resolved in the same manner as a regular combat, as the two units involved are not in base contact with one another"(BRB pg. 128). Since the monstrous beasts direct their attacks as if they were in base combat with garrisoned models; the handlers may declare their attacks through their monstrous beasts assaulting the building in the same manner.

    51) Q: When a unit of Salamanders/Razordons is in close combat with a war machine, can handlers be chosen as part of the assault party? Can handlers allocate their attacks through Salamanders/Razordons while in close combat with a war machine?

    A: No & Yes. "Handlers aren't really a combat unit per se, so we ignore them for most gaming purposes" (BRB pg. 73), so only the monstrous beasts can be chosen as part of the assaulting party. "In close combat, the handlers can direct their attacks against any enemy in base contact with their monster." (BRB pg. 73) & "All models chosen for the fight are considered to be in base contact with the war machine" (BRB pg. 110). Therefore the handlers may direct their attacks in close combat through their monstrous beast assaulting the war machine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
  2. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

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    *Reserved*
     
  3. VampTeddy
    Terradon

    VampTeddy Active Member

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    Razordon's will never get too close to S&S, they have quick to fire.

    and the Slann can get Loremaster High, thus allowing another slann to learn high magic, or buy loremaster high - allowing interchanging of high magic spells (but that is rather minor).

    Good work - appreciate it.
     
  4. sirkently
    Cold One

    sirkently Member

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    Two slann can't both have focus of mystery as each discipline is once per army.

    Otherwise, very nice.
     
  5. Didymus
    Chameleon Skink

    Didymus Active Member

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    Disagree on the supporting attacks, but fine.
     
  6. harbinger334
    Saurus

    harbinger334 New Member

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    not sure if this is just me being stupid but i disagree with the skink character on a flying mount not being able to join the unit i have checked this with our local gw and they have stated (i cant remember why ill look it up later when i have my bok on me) but although he is on a flying mount technically the mounts themselves are a different troop type (like i said i will check it up when i have the rulebook and repst the answer) but our local gw said that a skink character may join a unit of terradons/rippers

    also i disagree on the predatory fighter but im not getting into that debate

    but otherwise very good ! i hope they publish the official faq soon as the rule problems are starting to hurt my head :p
     
  7. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    This is not about agreeing or disagreeing.

    The way Hardy has stated everything is exactly how the RAW rules play out as it is now.
    I hope PF gets FAQ'ed to work with supporting ranks, but as it is it dont no matter how much and clear it is that it was intended to.

    for characters joining flying units it specifically says that they cant. Its there in the book, they Cant. Their mount dosnt change this.
    Yes its clearly meant for them to be able but the rules clearly dont allow it.



    not to start debate as OP wishes, but I put my coin to Hardy's interpretation:
    Its as it is right now, and until GW overrides the normal rules that is how everything should be played.
     
  8. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

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    Concerning characters joining units of flyers, please see that in the answer provided says it is not allowed by the rules, but suggested players allow flying, mounted characters to join flyers due to wording in the armybook indicating it should be allowed.
     
  9. hilburn
    Cold One

    hilburn New Member

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    Should add in supporting attacks in skrox hordes, RAW currently is that the krox count as 2nd and 3rd rank so no bonus for going into horde, which seems silly
     
  10. harbinger334
    Saurus

    harbinger334 New Member

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    Actually hardyworld there is actually a reason why it is allowed ill check in a min
     
  11. olderplayer
    Chameleon Skink

    olderplayer New Member

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    It is an okay effort but really missing a lot of questions and not tied closely to the text itself.

    The proposed #2 FAQ on the ability to attack the Krox misread the rule. There is an amibiguity in the English languate chosen but using logical operators and language constructtion "can only target Kroxigor...if" does not mean that you cannot target the skinks. or that you must attack the Krox only. This is a result of an ambiguity in English that has been hashed over previously but has been pretty clear. The addition of the if at the end of the phrase makes the only permissive (allowing something) as opposed to exclusive (requiring something). The interpretation of only as reqjuiring that attacks target the Krox is also inconsistent with the base to base discussion and discussion and the fact that thunderstomps and stomps are resolved against the skinks.

    On #3, supporting attacks, per page 49 of the BRB, can only target models in "base contact with the front rank model." Thus, a supporting attack against a skrox unit cannot target the Krox unless the Krox model, itself is in base to base contact with the front rank of the attacking unit. Also, per p. 38 of the LM army book, a model in base to base contact with a skink that is in base to base contact with a Krox in a Skrox unit can target the Krox but not otherwise if the Krox is not in base to base contact with the opposing unit.

    The #4 FAQ I'm not sure about and have to think about. Note that the basic supporting attack rule does not refer to ranks, only models, on page 48 of the BRB but the extra supporting attack allowed for a horde formation on page 49 onf the BRB says that "Warriors in a horde can make supporting attacks from the third rank,...." It is counterintuitive that a Krox in the third row (but technically not third rank) in a skrox unit that is behind only two rows of models would not get to make its supporting attacsk when if the unit were a Krox unit only and the first rank were composed solely of Krox then it would get to make supporting attacks.

    ON #6, there is nothing in the BRB on page 70 about characters not being able to join units with flying. The language referred to is on page 97 of the BRB. The other issue is that characters on mounts cannot join units of skimishers per p. 77 of the BRB and units with multiple flying models have the skirmisher special rule (p. 70 BRB) and units of rippers and terries are skirmishers. There is an FAQ regarding Brettonians that clearly says a hero or lord on an peg cannot join a unit of peg knights for these reasons.
     
  12. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

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    Thank you. Sounds like your comments concur with the OP.

    If there are additional questions that need to be added, please post them so they can be added!
     
  13. Didymus
    Chameleon Skink

    Didymus Active Member

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    If it's only your opinion that matters, please rename the topic "Hardyworld's lizardmen 8th Ed. FAQ".
     
  14. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

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    FAQ is to help everyone. Answers should be the community's opinion, not mine (or ours). Corrections are extremely welcome, please provide more corrections and additions and I will continue to update (as I have addressed ALL previous posts so far to be included in the OP).
     
  15. harbinger334
    Saurus

    harbinger334 New Member

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    yeah i cant remember the explaniation exactly of rippers but it stems from the fact that technically they are monsterous cavalry yet if you take the character mount is is actually a monsterous beast cant remeber it all but im pretty sure charcters can join unit and gw was too so i stand by that in my locals also in the new book i would be inclined to believe that this is the case due to tiq tak to and how he is supposed to be able to join a unit of flyers but technically cant but this is obviously not what gw meant otherwise they wouldnt have made his rules so therefore i think they can join units
     
  16. RipperDerek
    Kroxigor

    RipperDerek Active Member

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    According to the rules, characters can't join units of flyers. It's just what it says.

    It's stupid, it's clearly not intended, and you might as well just play it the logical way until the FAQ comes out. But, the rules are pretty unambiguous in what they say.

    The only issue I have with the OP is the description of the "can only attack...if" construction. The OP is wrong in saying this means "MUST only attack," although that is one valid interpretation. The language is ambiguous; it can also be read, "are only able to attack...if." For example, if I said to a child, "You can only go to the fair if you do your chores," no reasonable person would take that to mean the child is forever prohibited from going anywhere else once the condition of "finishing their chores" has been fulfilled. It clearly is setting a condition on their ability to go to the fair, not establishing a requirement that they attend the fair exclusively.

    Also, here are a couple more ideas for FAQ items:

    - How do you determine which handlers get to attack in a very large unit of razordons/salamanders?
    - What exactly happens to a Slann when he refuses a challenge?
    - Does the piranha blade really give D3 wounds to *everything*, or just attacks with the piranha blade?
     
  17. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

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    You're the second person to mention #2, and the provided answer includes both interpretations (so it couldn't possibly be wrong). I'll try to re-word later to clearly indicate there is no right answer, just agree on the rules before playing. Obviously there is a reason this is a FAQ (poorly worded).

    I'll add the latter two also, but don't understand the first question, RipperDerek. Could you post the question and answer?

    EDIT: I see your additional questions below this post, olderplayer. They will be added soon.

    Thanks all!
     
  18. olderplayer
    Chameleon Skink

    olderplayer New Member

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    Special character specific but:

    Q. Does The Deliverance of Itza spell of Lord Kroak (p. 52) allow one to target all enemy units within range even if they are not in the forward arc or are in combat?
    A. See the language that says "targets all enemy units within.."

    Q. Given the Guardians special rule on page 35, if a Temple Guard unit refuses a challenge, can the Slann be moved to the back of the unit from the second rank after it has joint the unit? AND
    Q. Given the Guardians special rule on page 35, can the Slann be moved to the first rank of the unit from the second rank even if five or more models with the Guardians special rule remain in the unit, for example to accept a challenge?
    Q. Can a Slann in a unit of Temple Guard with five or more models with the Guardian's special rule (p. 35), issue or accept a challenge? If so, how should that challenge be fought, or can the Slann be moved to the front rank to accept the challenge?
    As written right now, the Slann can accept or issue challengess, but either fights them from the second rank or off to the side of the unit,. Alternatively, under RAW, as an exception to the rule on page 35, the Slann moves to the front rank becuase the placement of the Slann in the second rank only must occur when the Slann joints the unit but does not require that the Slann stay in the second rank??), see BRB p. 102 and army book, 35.
     
  19. RipperDerek
    Kroxigor

    RipperDerek Active Member

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    Would be better as,

    Regarding the handlers for Salamanders and Razordons, the rules state: "In close combat, the handlers can direct their attacks against any enemy in base contact with their monster." There's more than one monster - so, how do you know which handlers belong to which Salamander? What if you lose a couple, say to shooting - which Salamander has now lost handlers? How are the losses distributed? Or, do they just function as a big pool, meaning 30 handlers all get to attack when just a single Salamander is in base-to-base with the enemy?

    I think the answer is: they just function as one big pool, but it is not clear and somewhat counter-intuitive.
     
  20. sirkently
    Cold One

    sirkently Member

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    To revise my previous post, though it is true that two slann can't have loremaster in high magic, one could and the other have just 4 spells. So there would be more spells from high that could be swapped.

    You can put back in the part about swapping high magic spells.
     

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