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8th Ed. Make me an army list!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Army Lists' started by Centurion, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. Centurion
    Skink

    Centurion New Member

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    Firstly, not 100% sure if this should be in the army list section or the tactics section - so if it needs moving, sorry!

    Right, so here's the challenge for those of you who just like making army lists (I know you are out there!). I would like a 1000 point list to play against warriors of chaos. The list has to include at least 20-24 skinks with javelins and 10 temple guard with command (this is my current collection). The rest is up to you. The warriors of chaos list is unknown, but it will probably be infantry heavy, featuring marauders as the core of the force, backed up by warriors. Please write me a list and if possible explain your choices. :)

    A little clarification of my position: I am bulding my army with the intention of reaching 1000 points, then going up to 2000. I will mostly be playing my friend who plays chaos, although I may possibly play in tournaments etc. I am not necessarily looking for an army list to copy, just some ideas of where to go next.

    Thanks, have fun!
     
  2. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    Its unfortunate that you only have the 10 Temple Guard, as this is a really awkward number to use. They can't go into the front of any Chaos Warriors as most (if not all) the unit will die before they get to swing. With that in mind:

    Saurus Oldblood (Cold One, Armour of Destiny, Dawn Stone, Halberd).

    This is your general, and also your key to victory as he's practically the only thing that you can get into 1000 points that can actually kill stuff in combat. 1+ re-rollable, 4+ ward, 5 S6 attacks at WS6 (which means even hitting Nurgle Warriors on 4s).

    Alternatively, downgrade him to a Scar-Veteran with Dawn Stone, Light Armour and a Dragonhelm if you want more units.

    10 Temple Guard, Standard, Champion, Razor Standard.

    The Oldblood goes here, where his attacks will then benefit from Armour Peircing. Alternatively, consider the Banner of Swiftness for additional movement. They have a Champion to challenge out any enemy characters whilst the Oldblood goes mental on the unit. As mentioned, though, they can't go into the front of anything - so you'll need something to hold the enemy up whilst the Temple Guard get into a flanking position.

    If you have any points - or models - this unit should really get bumped up to 12 as an absolute minimum; 18 as a preference, and ideally 24+.

    20 Skinks with Full Command, 2 Kroxigor.

    The block that's going to try and hold up your opponent. It has Kroxigor mostly to bump up their Leadership and though they may surprise you and achieve something - their presence may simply be to stop the opponent slaughtering Skinks (meaning that you keep Steadfast ranks longer). You could drop the Kroxigor and get Poisoned attacks, or just more Skinks - whatever you do, don't expect this unit to do much other than pin something in place whilst the Oldblood arrives. Of course, you can only pin one unit at a time so...

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    10 Skink Skirmishers


    Use these to keep everything other than the unit that you are trying to pin out of play. Both of them have Javelins.

    Skink Priest.

    He can be run naked with Level 1 or Level 2 on Beasts or Heavens; the choice is yours. Personally I would probably go with Level 1 Heavens and just throw everything at the Signature whenever your Temple Guard or Skink cohort engage in combat: this will keep them alive longer and ensure that more get to make attacks.

    Skink Chief, BSB, Enchanted Shield, Light Armour, Shield.

    Again, entirely a matter of preference. He is 100% not supposed to get into combat, but to stand behind the Skink Cohort so that they get their re-rolls (This is important as they will be losing combat... a lot, and once the Kroxigor are dead they are down to a Ld5, which is only 50% pass rate even with Cold Blooded. Therefore he's especially important if you don't have Kroxigor). Possibly an over-investment at this level but still dirt cheap at only some 70 points. If you were really, really keen on seeing him achieve something, you could use the points saved from keeping the Priest at level 1 to give him the Egg of Quango. I'd prefer to get more Temple Guard, though.

    As an alternative, you could downgrade the Oldblood to a Scar-Vet and dump the Priest to take a Solar Engine Bastiladon. This will give you something to do in the early magic phases (6 dice the Bound Spell - over and over until stuff dies); but it does mean that you are without any combat buffs (although the Bastiladon itself is something that you can throw into a combat, and at least its +1 Initiative might keep some Saurus alive from any Purple Suns - not entirely likely at 1000 due to the cost of Chaos Sorcerers, but you never know).

    As it turns out, from doing this you get exactly the right number of points to bring the Temple Guard up to 14 - so do that, or get more Skinks in your tarpit.

    Hope this helps!
     
  3. rantapanda
    Kroxigor

    rantapanda Member

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    I had a friendly 1000p game against woc.
    i had 2 steggies, 4 skink skirmishers, one oldblood with GW,dawnstone,armour of destiny (sure its 251p which mean 1p over but we didnt care).

    i were very succesfull in that one :p
     
  4. Centurion
    Skink

    Centurion New Member

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    Thanks for the replys, very helpful!

    So it seems regular saurus are not really worth bothering with against warriors of chaos? Or is it just not worth it at this points level?

    EDIT:
    Also how about Cold One Riders? They seem to have a lot of complaints leveled at them, but as a noob, looking at their stats and abilities they seem pretty handy, especially against an army that lacks cannon and bolt throwers. Is there a good reason not to take them? (Aside from the ugly, ugly cold ones!)
     
  5. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

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    It entirely depends what you are looking to get out of your Saurus. Bare in mind that they will hit last and won't inflict many wounds (only 4s to hit - 5s if facing Nurgle Warriors, only S4), and Warriors have easy access to high Strength which will make a mockery of T4 4+. They just aren't very killy (for that you want Temple Guard) and aren't super-tanky, either. On the other hand, they'll be really good against any Marauders, which the Skink-Kroxigor will struggle with. You can only get 18 Saurus for the same cost as that Skink Cohort, but they are much better recipients of buffs like Wildform, so it does depend on what you want to build your list around. I think they're better at higher points levels when, like Temple Guard, you can start getting 24, 30 or 40 of them, which starts to offset their weaknesses (doesn't matter if you're removing handfuls of models - there's plenty left!) Entirely honestly, I'd suggest trying out both options and seeing which you prefer. Our Core options are so limited that it does tend to come down to a matter of personal preference. When the book first dropped I was on the Saurus train; now I'm back on the Skink Cohort bus so just be aware that this is simply my opinion which does often vary!

    Cold One Riders have the same problem as Saurus: they have very poor Initiative (so stuff tends to hit them first), and they have very poor Weapon Skill (so not only do they get hit easily, but they don't hit things very often either). Sure, they have a metric ton of attacks per model which you would think sort of balances out. And back at the start of 8th, when everyone was chucking around hordes of low quality troops, they might have had a niche. Now the game is in a place where you have lots of T5+ and AS1+ on small, mobile units. This means that unless you are willing to fork out the outrageous cost to get Spears, they probably won't be able to achieve much. Especially against Warriors of Chaos.

    So this goes back to the first point: not only do they get hit first, and don't hit very well, they also don't wound very well. And on top of that, because of the same proliferation of high armour saves, there's an equal proliferation of high Strength - which means that T4 2+ Armour Save whilst looking great on paper, actually crumbles as soon as it runs into the increasing number of S5+ attacks (of which Warriors have easy access to). This is the same reason that some people are switching from Saurus back to Skink-Kroxigor - if you're going to be removind models to S5/S6 attacks, you might as well have more of them to retain ranks/Steadfast (the Skinks) and a few that can do something (the Kroxigor S7 attacks), as opposed to stuff which is just dying and not contributing anything with poor S4 attacks (the Saurus).

    With the COR, you're paying 30+ points per model for a unit which gets hit first, gets wounded easily, can't stand up to high Strength, and any surviving models won't hit back very well or inflict many wounds. Sure, like everything in the Lizardman book they can work if you really put the investment in (and buff them), but that's just the problem - everything in the book works like that, and because the book is internally balanced so terribly there's a bunch of stuff in that same 150-200 points bracket that will deliver much greater performance.

    For instance, for the same cost as a unit of 5 naked Cold One Riders, you can get a Scar-Veteran on a Cold One, with a Dawn Stone, Dragonhelm, Light Armour and a Great Weapon. Now you've got 4 S7 attacks at WS5 (the likelihood is 5-6 with Predatory Fighter), and a 1+ re-rollable armour save, with the exact same mobility. No additional investment required. This guy is simply amazing - he can actually hit things, he can easily get through all that Toughness and 1+ Armour Saves that's about these days, and he's so tanky he can run in and take on entire units by himself (Yesterday I had one of these guys and an Oldblood cut through 18 Nurgle Halberd Warriors single handedly. Like cake) - up to and including standing up to Daemon Princes. You can give him the Other Trickster's Shard or the Potion of Foolhardiness for less than the cost of giving 5 CORs Spears.

    On the other hand, 200 points is enough to get in a cheap Oldblood; 126 gets you a Skink Chief on a Ripperdactyl with the Egg of Quango, Dragonhelm, Light Armour and Shield (for a 2+ armour save - add either Biting Blade or Luckstone); for 160 you can get 4 multiple attacks Armour Piercing re-rolling to hit Flying Ripperdactyls (who will do much better than COR with WS/I buffs), 6 COR with full command and Spears is only slightly less than an Ancient Stegadon with Sharpened Horns, and the full 10 man COR unit competes with 8 Kroxigor. In all cases, I think that the alternatives are superior.

    There's a place for CORs as Scar-Vet delivery systems (so he has a Look Out Sir), or in a minor role as flankers to support your combat blocks (and prior to Rippers they were a good way to get some Swiftstride to run down fleeing units), so by all means give it a try. They could work well in the aforementioned Wildform lists (go double Skink level 1, give one the Forbidden Rod to get some Power Dice at the moment you need it). I keep writing them into my lists every now and again just to see if the theory matches the practice, but I just think that - like Saurus Warriors - you need to manage your expectations.
     
  6. Centurion
    Skink

    Centurion New Member

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    Well I've managed to get a lizardman Battalion box on it's way to me, plus a few OOP skink characters, so now I have enough models to make a 1000 point army. How about this list:

    Heros:
    Scar Veteran, Great Weapon, Cold One, Light Armour, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness - 150
    Skink Priest, level 2, Lore of Heavens - 100

    Core:
    12 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins/shields - 84
    12 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins/shields - 84
    12 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins/shields - 84

    Special:
    18 Temple Guard, Full Command, Razor Standard - 327
    5 Cold One Riders, Spears - 170

    Total: 999

    Alternatively I could drop the cold one riders and get an Oldblood on Cold One, and give the scar vet a battle standard, swapping some items around to make it fit. Other than that strip some of the scar vet's magic items to squeeze in 2 priests. If I do keep the CoR, is it better to invest in spears or a couple of command models?

    Thanks!
     

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