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9th Age Making Caimans (i.e. Kroxigors) unique!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by TheGreatFatSlann, May 31, 2017.

  1. TheGreatFatSlann
    Skink

    TheGreatFatSlann Member

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    I was looking through the latest version of Saurian Ancients and I have to say, overall I am very happy with how everything looks (I don't see why some people are saying the Cuatl Lord has been nerfed, he's just as strong as ever, it's magic that's been nerfed) but the one thing which stuck out to me as strikingly bland are the Caimans. Basically they're Ogres with great weapons and cold-blooded, which is fine, but giant crocodiles have the potential for so much more.

    So in thinking about how to make Caimans more unique, the death-thrashing move which actual crocodiles in the wild tend to do came to mind - for those that don't know, a popular hunting technique for these creatures is to grab hold of their prey by the neck and start violently thrashing their head and body around, all the while dragging the victim underwater, effectively both drowning and snapping the bones of the hapless meal.

    So why not give something similar to Caimans?

    Just like Trolls can substitute all their attacks for a single vomit attack that's an auto hit and ignores armour, Caimans would be able to substitute all of their attacks for a single "Thrash" attack, with a somewhat different effect to vomiting:

    Each Caiman model must select a single model in base contact with them (this is usable by a Caiman Ancient in a challenge) and substitute all of their normal attacks for a single Thrash attack. If the attack misses, the warrior has managed to fend off the Caiman. If it hits, the Caiman has grabbed hold of the warrior in question with its jaws and hands - roll to would (with no weapon bonus, obviously) as normal, with an additional Armour Piercing (1) to represent the sharpness of the teeth and claws, but additionally, if the "thrashed" opponent has not attacked yet this turn, it loses the ability to do so - it is too busy trying to not get devoured by the Caiman.
    In subsequent turns, the thrash continues, and is considered an auto hit, unless the victim scores a successful wound against the Caiman, in which case it is released and the Caiman cannot attack again until next turn. The thrash also comes to an end if the victim dies, or if the Caiman holding the victim is killed by the victim's comrades (so it will be useful to annotate which Caiman is "holding" which target, in the case of characters being mixed with R&F). The Caimans can still stomp as normal even if thrashing.

    TLDR: Caimans can perform a Thrash attack that immobilises the victim and slowly kills them each turn unless the victim can do a wound to the Caiman (or the Caiman is killed by other means) in which case the victim is released.

    Thoughts?
     
    Tlaxbitza, Teowulff, Warden and 2 others like this.
  2. Yrtomin
    Saurus

    Yrtomin Member

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    Pretty cool idea, you should post it in the 9th age forums!

    I agree about the cuatl, my gripe has more to do with the diciplines.
     
    Ritual likes this.
  3. The Sauric Ace
    Salamander

    The Sauric Ace Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the primary reason for the blandness of 9th age unit is to do with the fact that that the team would prefer simplicity, however with the added less variety, over complicated rules, that though could add flavour to the races.
    Similar ways of making the caiman unique were initially suggested, like given them a boost when charging, since well, they are crocodiles on legs, but the rules were deemed to complicated, and would be difficult to balance probably. :shifty:

    Perhaps the general consensus has changed, when it comes to adding flavourful rules, I haven't been active for a long time now, so it's worth a try. Just keep this in mind, if it gets shouted down very quickly.
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Seems like you really lost your interest in it. You were into it big time at one point.
     
    Otzi'mandias likes this.
  5. The Sauric Ace
    Salamander

    The Sauric Ace Well-Known Member

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    It simply became too streamlined for my taste, I know it was suppose to be more for the seasoned player, but most of the fun rules were deemed inappropriate. I also don't quite understand how they balance each army, it's very confusion to say it the least.

    That and I had a son last September, whom currently occupies quite a lot of my time :p
     
  6. The Green Gekoh
    Jungle Swarm

    The Green Gekoh New Member

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    G'day,

    Just a couple of quick thoughts.

    I imagine that this type of attack would be directed at characters? Would it also include characters on monstrous mounts or monsters as well? I don't feel that a Caiman would be able to have such a hold on a large monster such as a dragon or manticore for example. Background wise I can see this being an 'instinctive attack' possible at infantry models (up to 25mm square) or cavalry (up to 25mm x 50mm) base sized models; but I don't think this would very useful. Caimans strike at Initiative 2, so most models will get to fight first anyway, and to give up 3 Strength 6 or 7 (with Great Weapons) Attacks to inflict a single Strength 5 Attack (at WS 3 that still needs to hit) does not appear to be a good option.

    Or the Thrash attack makes automatic wounds at d3 MW instead of just 1?

    Perhaps make their Stomp Attack become 2 or 3 on the turn that they make a successful charge to simulate their fierce thrashing?
     
    Warden likes this.
  7. The Green Gekoh
    Jungle Swarm

    The Green Gekoh New Member

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    Another random thought regards this. Crocodiles are an apex ambush predator, they may appear sluggish most of the time (ie like Caimans on I2) but can ambush and drag unaware land based animals into water with instant violence. To reflect this, Caimans have 1 Ambush Attack (at their base strength) with I10, they lose their Stomp attack to do so. This could be based on a LD test (pass and they make the attack which hits automatically) or this Ambush Attack is made with their WS (even crocodiles sometimes miss their prey) but doesn't need a LD to do so. This Ambush attack can only be made to an enemy model in their front arc which they are in base contact with, and only on the first round of Combat. They can still use the remainder of their normal A at their normal I later in the Combat Phase. The results of the Ambush Attack count as a part of the Combat phase.
     
    Tlaxbitza likes this.
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    You want interesting caimans:
    • abolish ASL and give them ASF
    • WS & Int. of 10
    • 1+ armour save
    • can ride ripperdactyls (or whatever their equivalent is in T9A)


    :smuggrin:
     
    Captaniser likes this.
  9. Wolfwerty33
    Cold One

    Wolfwerty33 Active Member

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    You missed "god-level mages", and machine-gun-like ranged attacks. Actually, make that actual machine guns.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  10. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I didn't want them to be too OP! :p

    But I should have mentioned that they would be core selection. I guess your version could be a special or rare choice.
     
  11. kisscool
    Jungle Swarm

    kisscool New Member

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    Just some remark about the fat Frog : its strenght was the magic : and with magic nerfed a lot currently, yes the Frog seems very nerfed. And each discipline adding to its magic casting power cost more.
    In addition, its cost didnt drop much.
    And he also lost -1LD, and less magic paths to choose from.
    And its natural bunker cost too much (temple guards)
     
  12. Teowulff
    Jungle Swarm

    Teowulff New Member

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    Great idea! Agreed that Caiman could get a more specific, unique role.
    And especially the Caiman Ancient .. can't we make it so that he gives all kinds of buffs to a Caiman unit so he becomes more viable to add to your army?
     
    Warden likes this.
  13. kisscool
    Jungle Swarm

    kisscool New Member

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    lol I was about to copy paste the link of the post on T9A forum about how to improve the ancient caiman, just to realize before clicking on reply that it was yours :D
     
    Teowulff likes this.

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