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AoS Making Oracles Work

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Alladin the Paladin, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:06 AM.

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    Skaven Slave

    Alladin the Paladin Clan Pestilens

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    I was/still am super bummed out about the Skink Oracle’s points cost. However, I love the model, and my buddies don’t play super competitive anyway, so I want to make him work for me.

    My strategy?

    Dracothion’s Tail. Give that man a Godbeast Plate!

    Bring Kroak.
    Bring a Slann. Make him your general to get an extra spell and reroll on a cast. Give him Celestial Equilibrium to pump up Kroak’s butt. Give him Mystical Unforging just because why not, we are having fun!
    Bring an Astrolith Bearer.
    Bring a Balewind Vortex.

    Bring some Pendulums and Purple Suns!

    But also, Bring 2 maxed squads of Salamanders.

    Bubble wrap your Slanns. Buff up your Kroak. Cast your Comets down. Cast your 36” range Stellar Tempest, thank you. Drop a Sun and Pendulum to block some charge lanes.

    Drop your salamanders from the sky turn one. Rain death upon your foes. Wait, what’s that in the backline with them? A poor skink on a feckless monster mount? Who cares, the Salamanders who just melted the faces off half my backfield are the problem!

    Even if they go after the unassuming Oracle, 50% chance he comes back! You sure you want to send your terrorgiest/gothizar/hearthguard over that way for 2 turns?

    Maybe he charges a weaker backfield hero and kills him. Doesn’t really matter!

    Somehow your opponent, Buddy McWinner, does not manage to kill the oracle (and, if you are keeping an eye on things in the back, your Slann/Kroak tag team duo either). What comes next turn?

    Up to 5D3 mortal wounds on one unit you want dead, plus many many D3’s of splash damage across other units. 1/3 chance of destroying an artefact just because we don’t like playing with your toys! Another Salamander Unit also LoSaTs to melt faces.

    Beethoven’s Ode to Joy plays in the background as Buddy McWinner’s models head’s explode in slow motion. And it’s all thanks to a little Skink riding a blind dinosaur gallantly into battle.

    It shall be glorious.



    Now pardon me as I unwind myself from Oracle-induced delirium.

    The list I envision turns out similar to LizardWizard Kroak and MW spam list. Is it better? No. Does it have an Oracle? 100% it does! it also allows up to 5D3 summoning pints, which should all but guarantee a skink per turn if needed, or potentially more guard to keep your Slanns ticking...

    Even if it’s not competitive, I think it’s a pretty sweet use of a Godbeast plate if it works and then you get to use him as a vassal for up to 8 spells.
     
  2. April Fools'
    Skaven Slave

    Carnikang Clan Mors

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    I really like the Oracle, and will be trying him. It just hurts that he costs as much as a Slann.

    I think it looks like a fun list, and want to see some feedback from you. I'll try and run it if I can as well, as I just got a bunch of sallies to make into full units. Just have to convert some handlers....
     
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    Skaven Slave

    DaBush Clan Moulder

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    I think the oracle would be worth it if as the general he’d generate d3 summoning points. He’s mentioned in all other text related but they said starseer instead of oracle as general?! Lame.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Alladin the Paladin Clan Pestilens

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    I agree about the cost.

    I think he can be situationally good, depending on the opponent and the battleplan. That said, top tier armies and lists will punish you for bringing him.
     
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    Array

    Killer Angel Dreaded Council Staff Member

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    Sadly, the actual strategy to make it work, is to leave it on the shell. :(
    When no one will ever field it, GW will lower its points with the new General Handbook. :p
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Lizerd Clan Pestilens

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    At the moment Troglodons have their uses, but right now their way overcosted for what they can do. The fact that they lack so much rend really holds them back at such a high price point. For comparison an oldblood has rend on 2 out of 3 of its melee weapons and costs 10 points less and is arguably a better combat monster.

    hopefully as @Killer Angel has said, their price will get lowered in the GHB
     
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    LizardWizard Dreaded Council Staff Member

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    I like it!.

    Good luck with your oracle.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Nart Clan Skryre

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    Trog is a support character. And you cannot make a support character work. It is the support character, who makes work other units. You can make work Carnos, Guard, Stegadons, Rippers, but not the Eternity Warden. He could be a bit more interesing if either had 6 jaw attacks, or that jaw attacks dealt 4-5 damage. Fortunately, it can be fixed with price drop.
     
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    LizardWizard Dreaded Council Staff Member

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    Agreed. The Trog should be somewhere between 200-240. Or, have rend on his jaws.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Alladin the Paladin Clan Pestilens

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    But, but, can you say that he “supports” the magnificent rain of fire and death that is brought forth by the Slann and Kroak?!!!?!?

    ... I know. He sucks at 260 pts. But he is a sensitive soul, so please don’t let him know we all think that.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    ILKAIN Clan Moulder

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    don't listen to the naysayers... RAM THAT TROG DOWN THEIR THROATS!! EXPLODERATING CELESTIAL DELIVERANCES FROM THE FRONT LINE AND UNLIMITED RANGE OF SPELLS!
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Grotpunter Clan Pestilens

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    Keep in mind you cant cast Endless spells through the Troglodon (unless he uses his 1 cast to do it himself), but you can use him to bomb the enemy with Kroaks CD.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Lizerd Clan Pestilens

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    The problem won’t that is your throwing a decent amount of points into a high risk scenario where a cheaper skink priest with feather cloak could be used to do the same thing for less points.

    edit: you could also just LoSaT a skink priest and do the same thing
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Alladin the Paladin Clan Pestilens

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    1. Everyone has 260 pts to throw around these days
    2. LoSaT means a poor priest has to survive until next round, unlikely as it’s much easier to kill.
    3. Skink Priest can only be 12” from Slann, if you need a longer radius, no luck.
    4. Said Priest is 100% NOT riding a troglodon
    5. Who puts a Godbeast plate on a Skink priest? I mean c’mon let’s be serious here.
    6. A troglodon means that opponents who previously thought their backfield supports were out of deliverance range now *have* to dedicate a decent amount of resources to kill it. Meaning it’s one thing that’s not going toward grabbing an objective or ripping your Slann’s face off
    7. Godbeast plate means the opponent is presented with 2 bad options: Spend resources killing Troglodon, only to possibly have it come back and still explode brains, or ignore it, and 100% have it explode brains
    8. Did I mention the troglodon aspect?
    9. If you can get a charge off, a trog can possibly hunt weak support characters while still being a conduit for misery and lamentations of your opponents
    10. You can reenact the scene in Jurassic Park when Dennis Nedry gets pwned by a Dilohpasaurus
    11. It still can provide you with either a Pendulum to the face of your enemies or D3 CPs a turn.
    12. Look at the smile of both mount and rider! How can you resist!?
    13. TROGDOR!!!!
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Lizerd Clan Pestilens

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    So here is the problem with throwing away 260 points for a one shot, that’s a solid tenth of an army (technically more than). For the same price point I could get an oldblood on Carnosaur who can issue a bunch of effective commands to battleline to mulch down the enemy. Said carnosaur also has vastly superior melee capabilities. Or for those same 260 points you could get a Slann with three spells a turn and the ability to provide key support.

    another thing with a Troglodon/Kroak drop, 580 points is a lot to consider for a single maneuver, and to ensure its value you’d want to support it creating a greater point sink for one trick. Ultimately the problem with the Troglodon is it’s just not the best thing to do a rear drop with. We can still debate where celestial deliverance is best used(be it cast from support heroes near battleline or used in drops) the Troglodon simply isn’t an optimal way to use deliverance except for maybe a few specific occasions
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Alladin the Paladin Clan Pestilens

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    ...I don't think you read my 11 points AT ALL... :shifty:

    I get you. It's not actually an ideal use of resources. I thought I was being tongue-in-cheeky enough not to be taken so seriously, however!

    Ultimately, it is something I would try once. Most people I play aren't angling hard into the meta, and in those cases I think it would do just fine.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Lizerd Clan Pestilens

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    I did read the 11 points, but the problem is the carnosaur is infinitely superior!

    althoughif your not playing in a local meta that has orruk warclans, ogor maw tribes, ossiarch bone reapers, and slaanesh (all of which I have had the... experience... to play against) it could have a decent chance of success.
     
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    LizardWizard Dreaded Council Staff Member

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    Trog is fine for casual and semi-comp. In just about any comp/tourney list I would rather have another Slann. I would not be at all surprised if you are able to get some good wins out of the list. I look forward to tales of celestial deliverance.
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Alladin the Paladin Clan Pestilens

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    Carnasaur, more like Carna-bore!
     
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    Skaven Slave

    Lizerd Clan Pestilens

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    *Loads rail rifle with malicious intent*
     
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