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Discussion Map Index: Temple Cities

Discussion in 'Fluff and Stories' started by Slanputin, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    Because a) when writing/plotting stories I always refer to a map to ground myself, b) I'm a bit of a cartophile , c) this forum does things to my dark indexing urges, and d) once you pop you can't stop.

    Unfortunately after 6th ed. GW stopped caring about Temple City design. This upsets my semi-inner urban planner.

    5th edition (1997):
    cityV5.PNG

    cityV5_b.PNG

    6th edition (2003):
    cityv6.PNG
     
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  2. Essmir
    Cold One

    Essmir Active Member

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    So thiss thread are just a colection of maps over lizardmen temple citys publiced by GW? or is any discussion to take place?
     
  3. SlanntaClause
    Carnasaur

    SlanntaClause Well-Known Member

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    the first two are from the book im reading :) I was thinking if they're not going to bother solidifying the layout of other places perhaps we should try to as a community
     
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  4. Essmir
    Cold One

    Essmir Active Member

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    So you intend thiss tread to be full of our own temple city maps?
     
  5. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    If people want to add their own temple city maps that'd be really useful - as with most things, how the fandom uses GW works usually results in a variety of products with much better care. This thread was meant as a mere index, discussion or otherwise just a bonus - more for my own inspirational needs when approaching LM fluff. How people would expand on this would be inspiring in itself though.
     
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  6. Warden
    Skink Chief

    Warden Well-Known Member

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  7. Bracnos
    Salamander

    Bracnos Well-Known Member

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    wow why wont GW or any company help a lazy hobbyist like me and let me buy sets like this...I need me some mayan terrain...:argh::argh:
     
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  8. SlanntaClause
    Carnasaur

    SlanntaClause Well-Known Member

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    Because their abilities to make terrain pretty much lies in oh lets make a tree and plonk it on an empty board :p
     
  9. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    Woah, that's just....woah. I am loving the Iguazu-esque backdrop to the temple city. The whole thing is one big love letter to the craft.
     
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  10. Warden
    Skink Chief

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Had some great inspiration from the pictures posted here.

    Since this is an index after all... BEHOLD! the Temple City of Mutal!

    Temple City of Mutal.png

    Temple City of Mutal_Temple Names.png
     
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  11. Warden
    Skink Chief

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Also found this temple-city down by TWFL over on deviant art.

    lizardmen_temple_city_by_twfl.jpg

    Wish he had given it a name!
     
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  12. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    The actual terrain constructed is perfect. I will not diss it.

    The 1997 5th edition Itza layout is terrible.

    It's too orderly. Itza is the "first city." Old cities are not orderly. I never seen City Hall in a reasonable place in an old city. Itza existed before Sotek. Everything in the city diagram is based around the temple and altar of Sotek, the Old Ones are off to the side. If all the Old Ones Temples were in one central cluster, the Temple of Sotek would have to be on the edge of town. I can't imagine all the ruins being in one place too. It's conceivable but not efficient to put all/most of the Skink housing in their own location. I figure clusters of barrios and other housing would be near the Skink's work whenever possible.

    Itza especially would be dynamic (at least dynamic over centuries). The population would rise and swell during times of peace and war. Buildings would fall into disuse and fall to ruins, only to be rebuilt or built over later. Ruins, beast stables, insect hatcheries, training fields, storage areas would probably be fairly even spread out. If the Temples started in a cluster, you'd probably have one original cluster and a new cluster built around the Temple of Sotek. Originally the Sotek temple was it's own building but as original temples fell into disuse, they could have been rebuilt near the more trafficked Sotek temple district. But I don't see temples being clustered.

    Geomancy seems to be a big part of Lizardmen mysticism. Uxmac's temple would be at the main crossroads. Huanchi the night god's temple should be in the west with the setting sun. Chotecs temple would be in the East. Tzunki's temple would be near the most important water source. There's probably monuments, temples, and shrines set up in locations built to geomantic principles for reasons beyond human understanding. The Lizardmen would put the religious buildings and monuments whereever the Slann command. Housing and utilitarian buildings would cluster around in the space left over. Skinks would try to make buildings convenient for their user but over time space issues would result in subpar placements. These Skinks have to walk farther to work because we don't want to displace the apothecary etc.

    The prime real estate would be near the temples of Sotek. If you get an obscure Old One that is not widely worshipped like Potec, the temple would probably be kept up well by the Skink priests and their support staff, but the buildings around it would fall into disrepair because they are rarely used. The support buildings around the Sotek temples would be the most well-kept because with daily use their is an incentive to keep them usable.

    Itza's city overview probably shouldn't fit on one page easily.


    Wow, I get worked about imaginary cities...
     
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  13. Warden
    Skink Chief

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic amount of detail in that post @Scalenex . I want to key in on a few things:


    I agree, the old map is old. I imagine the city of Itza to be a sprawling city of old and new architectural styles, made over several millennia, some repainted and refurbished constantly, others left to disrepair and ruin. Kind of like Rome in Assassin's Creed brotherhood: lots of nooks and crannies to explore.


    Cool ideas I had not thought of before this post. Pardon the rambling...

    Beast Stables. At first glance I would think this conjures to mind a regular horse stable, with large lizards replacing horses tethered to the stable edges. But wait a second... we are talking about razor-toothed dinosaurs here; whether they are massive stegadons, bastiladons, or cold-ones, these things are dangerous. How would the Lizardmen keep them under control? Would they keep them in big, stone-walled pits like in that new Jurassic park movie? Instead of electricity, keeping them fenced in with magic? I have a feeling a lot of skink handlers get eaten during feeding time when things go wrong.

    Training Fields. For the saurus, I would assume they don't train too much, BUT that is only if they are envisioned like mindless automaton-lizards. If that is the case they would probably stoically hand out in temple barracks all day. If we were to imagine them as being more "human" they might train more often; wonder what the training areas would look like? Something like a medieval jousting tournament? Would the scar veterans be in charge of training? Maybe the saurus chiefs; or maybe they appoint saurus drill sergeants, who knows? Wonder if they have tournaments, more likely gladiator-style single combat, rather than jousts on cold-ones. Or maybe mass-melee fights with non-lethal clubs? OR better yet, maybe the saurus spend their time around a Mayan-esque ball-court (possibly called the 'blood bowl' by less enlightened species)?

    Insect Hatcheries. I always wondered what the Lizardmen ate. It makes sense meat or fish would get boring, and Lizards/frogs love insects in the real world. Aside from bee hives (to make honey and/or be used in battle as dangerous bombs of bee-fury, like in Medival Total War 2 America Campaign), they could potentially have vast hatcheries dedicated to producing vast quantities of grubs, worms, or other crawling delacacies loved by the priest class, or the Slann. Lizardmen might not see vast swarms of flies as a nuisance, but a symbol of prosperity (kind of like when a human looks at a field of wheat or rows of apple trees, a ton of insects could make a Lizard's mouth water with anticipation). Also itxi grubs!!!!; grown in special magically-protected hatcheries guarded closely by the skink priests, so that no one can learn their secrets.


    I like this quick list; it makes sense that each Old One, which its own individual theme/quirks, would have a unique set of temple structures that are relatively common throughout all temple cities, with variations of course from temple-city to temple-city.


    Here is your list, just broken down a bit more:

    Uxmac- temple at the main crossroads of the temple city, the waystation for travelers and lizard-merchants

    Huanchi- temple of the Night, always aligned on the west of the city, in the direction of the setting sun

    Chotec- temple of the Sun, always aligned on the east of the city, in the direction of the rising sun. Temple often is covered in gold or contains a trove of gold artifacts, befitting its status as the holy metal of Chotec.

    Tzunki- temple of Water, always near the most important water feature/source, whether that is a river, well, cenyote, stream, swamp, or waterfall. In many cases the temple can only be entered by use of watercraft, or in some cases must be accessed from under water.

    Sotek- in recent years, Sotek has become the prime Old One of the Lizardmen. The temple is often the best located in the city (save only for the city's patron deity temple), and is located on a prime geomantic line of power. Many snakes lurk in the temple, often in deep pits, and are regularly fed sacrifices to appease the Old One's fury.


    On another note, where do the Slann live? Do they cluster in the central Temple of the city, or does each Slann live and work/meditate in its own temple?
     
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  14. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Wherever they want. Are you going to tell the Slann where to live?

    I figure most of the temples have well kept Slann quarters. Many are unused but all are well kept just in case a Slann wants to use it. Contemplative Slann would probably hang out in geomantic points of power for best use telepathic confabs and extra sensory scrying. Managerial Slann would pick a quarters relatively close to whatever they are managing. Slann would probably move slowly from place to place as they decide to change their new roles. I thought about a Slann Spa (well bath house)

    . Essentially a place with a bunch of snacks and creature comforts Slann but no. Slann don't go to the mountain, the mountain comes to the Slann. If Slann want something, a servant goes and gets it, no matter how far away it is. I figure storage areas for Slann essentials would be built by Skinks near the Slann's favorite haunts. If the Slann are somewhere else, the Skinks better be swift footed.

    I assumed that too. Training is mostly for Skinks who don't have instincts for that stuff. I figured Skinks would do target practice. Some of it while running through an obstacle course to mimic skirmishing. Kroxigor and Skinks would need to practice combined unit maneuvers. After you train Stegadons, Salamanders and the like to not randomly attack the citizenry, you need to train them to follow battlefield commands somewhere. Eventually they'll have to get used to fighting side by side with Lizardmen infantry.

    I imagine it would look a lot like a zoo exhibit. Salamanders and Razordons are given nice big swamps stocked with food, that happen to have high walls around them. Only trained handlers ever enter the secured doors. Stegadons would likely have horse like stables but they would probably have roaming ground. Only a city with lots of extra labor force would fence in the roaming area. A smaller city would probably put the Stegadons on the edge of town and let them play outside. There is certainly a flat area of depressed vegetation in these places.

    Paleontologists largely believe real pterodactyls nested on the ground, but fantasy writers love to treat flying reptiles like birds, so they live in trees. Tall towers could serve as the artificial equivalent and they could double as watch towers, which fits because terradons probably are arial scouts during periods of relative peace. Flying reptiles fly. They don't have to live in the city. Terradons are probably more comfortable outside the city when they can be. I imagine Ripperdactyl aviaries in Temple Cities are empty unless the city is under siege right now, it's just not worth keeping them around. Cold Ones are tricky. Their stabling would depend on how the Skinks subvert and redirect their natural pack instincts. They would probably be stabled near where their Saurus riders live but I don't know more than that.


    More fun with the Old Ones.

    Caxautn: The predator of the deep jungles would not have temples in a city. That would be insulting. Just small shrines near where dangerous beasts are kept or deep jungle scouts hang out.

    Itzl: Near the busiest beast stables.

    Potec: In the cardinal direction of the scariest local enemies. The more pressed a city is, the more temples and shrines of Potec they would have

    Quetzl: Quetzl's temples and shrines would be near (or on top of) the most important vaults or sequestered Slann quarters.

    Sotek: Skinks would put it in the highest trafficked area not explicitly seeded to an Old One by the Slann.

    Tepok: Along magic ley lines.

    Tlanxa: Tall buildings and hill tops, assuming they even acknowledge this guy.

    Tlazcotl: Whereever Skinks and Saurus tend to sleep in large numbers;

    Xhokha: Either underground or in rocky areas.


    The more obscure ones probably only have temples in certain cities. I can also imagine ad hoc temples where Lizardmen go to acknowledge all the relatively minor deities.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  15. Warden
    Skink Chief

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    That line on a "Slann Spa" reminded me of the Emerald Pools:

    Sounds like its a resort where the Slann go to rejuvenate themselves and maintain their immortality (or maybe just to have some amazon companionship...)
     
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  16. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Ewwwwww!

    Slann aren't Fimir.
     
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  17. Warden
    Skink Chief

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Did not think about it like that... oops :sour:



    Changing the subject again slightly, to talk about what is inside a temple-pyramid. Based on the picture provided by @Slanputin on his first post, we are given a glimpse of what the High Temple of Pahuax looks like on the inside. Here is a quick list, broken location in the pyramid:

    Top:
    4. Palanquin Chamber- this is where the Slann hang out and practice their magical and meditation skills. Complete with magical artifacts.
    5. Terradon Perchery- As mentioned previously, the terradons normally would roost somewhere else, but this location would normally be used to transmit messages using a terradon "pony-express" style network for the skink priests and Slann to maintain non-magical communications with distant locations.

    Middle:
    1. Tomb-chamber- holy artifacts of the Lizardmen located here, as well as any mummified remains of deceased Slann Mage-priests
    2. Chamber of Sacred Plaques- holiest artifacts located here, treasures of the Old Ones
    3. Calendar Chamber- where the skinks dutifully record all the goings on of a temple city
    6. "Secret Chamber"- potentially known to exist only by a few trusted skinks/just the Slann themselves. Potentially forgotten.
    7. Shrine of Sotek- location for the worship of the pyramid's deity, complete with effigies of the serpent god

    Bottom:
    8. Collapsed Chamber- old entrance to the pyramid? Based on the picture its hard to tell where you get in; there are probably multiple entrances (some for the saurus, some for the skink priests at the top, etc...)
    10. Saurus Barracks- where the saurus regiments are housed. In times of war the saurus march out to smite the enemies of the temple-city
    11. Astral Shaft- small stairway which the skink astrologers use to study the stars. Or it could be a tunnel aligned to a specific star or astrological location, used by the priests to study the cosmos.

    Underneath:
    9. Saurus Spawning Caverns- location of the saurus spawning pools. Certain temples could have more or less, depending on the size of the temple.
    12. Sacred Snake Pit- if the pyramid is going to be dedicated to Sotek, it makes sense there would be one of these. Much cheaper than having to house your enemies in a dungeon...


    Other potential rooms that could be located within a temple pyramid:

    Temple Library
    Housing for the Skink Priests (or these could be in other, minor structures surrounding the main pyramid)
    Observatory/Astronomic Chambers
     
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  18. begizuri
    Jungle Swarm

    begizuri New Member

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    I just found this page, don't know if it's been posted already but it looks very good and I don't get all the techniques used so maybe you guys can help translate "the depressions in the table were burned in with a heat gun" and "the temples and streets are cut from insulation foam, with a few Hirst-Arts bricks added here and there"... what are the tiles made of? and the bigger rocks? thanks in advance!
    https://robhawkinshobby.blogspot.fr/p/lustria-revisited.html

    PS: this forum is awesome but it's taking its toll on my sleeping time :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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  19. begizuri
    Jungle Swarm

    begizuri New Member

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    don't mind me guys, I found some tutorials and the famous molds for the tiles, it's all sorted!
     

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