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Tutorial Match play Lists I often Use

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by LizardWizard, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Decided that I should make a thread about the army lists that I frequently post. Each list will have a limited overview of how they are intended to operate. Comments and discussion are welcome, but the point of this thread was to give me a link tool for other discussions.

    All list are Match Play legal for Age of Sigmar 2nd ed, General's Hand Book 2018.

    1000 Matched Play Points:
    2000 Matched Play Points:
    Q&A:
    Note: Edited to expand index.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  2. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    1000pt Eternal Starhost

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ghyran

    LEADERS:
    Skink Starpriest
    (80)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
    - Artefact : Wand of Restoration

    Saurus Sunblood (120)
    - Artefact : Ghyrstrike
    Saurus Eternity Warden (140)

    UNITS:
    10 x Saurus Guard (180)
    5 x Saurus Guard (90)
    5 x Saurus Guard (90)
    3 x Razordons (120)

    BATTALIONS:
    Eternal Starhost
    (150)

    ENDLESS SPELLS:
    Prismatic Palisade
    (30)

    TOTAL: 1000/1000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
    WOUNDS: 47

    This is a friendly 1k list. Make sure your opponent is aware they need to include mortal wound output in their army if you want it to actually be a friendly game.

    Note: Was edited for formating purposes.

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
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  3. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    1000pt Shadowstrike Starhost

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ghur

    LEADERS:
    Skink Starpriest
    (80)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
    - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm


    UNITS:
    6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
    4 x Razordons (160)


    BATTALIONS:
    Shadowstrike Starhost
    (180)

    TOTAL: 1000/1000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS:
    1 WOUNDS: 84

    This is the list I bring to 1k tournaments. It is extremely brutal, but fragile. Once you learn how to pilot it effectively it is in my experience nearly unbeatable.

    The goal is simply and effective. Kill your opponents biggest threats with a devastating turn one. Use LoSaT to bring your Razordons into the fight and be positionally aggressive with your 40 man Skink unit from the onset.

    With strong decision making you can gain an unbeatable lead on objectives by turn three while the opponent is picking themselves back up from your alpha strike. When games go to turn 5 I am almost always nearly tabled, but the early objective lead is enough to carry me through.

    Note: Was edited for formatting purposes.

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
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  4. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    2000pt Dracothion's Tail with Shadowstrike Starhost

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    LEADERS:
    Slann Starmaster
    (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Great Rememberer
    - Artefact : Miasmatic Blade

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
    - War Spear
    - Artefact : Sword of Judgement

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact : Betrayer's Crown
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Artefact : Spellmirror

    UNITS:
    4 x Razordons (160)
    5 x Saurus Knights (90)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (90)
    - Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (90)
    - Blades
    6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

    BATTALIONS:
    Dracothion's Tail
    (80)
    Firelance Starhost (150)
    Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

    ENDLESS SPELLS:
    Chronomantic Cogs
    (60)
    Soulsnare Shackles (20)

    TOTAL: 2000/2000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 3
    WOUNDS: 110

    Units I place in the Heavens:
    • Scar-veteran on Carnosaur
    • Scar-veteran on Cold One
    • Razordons
    • Saurus Knights (with lances)x1
    • Ripperdactyls (technically in the clouds)
    This is list I use for 2k tournaments. It is centered around setting the tempo of the game and removing your opponents major threats turn one. It takes strong threat assessment and good movement to use effectively, but it hasn't lost for me yet.

    Turn one I LoSaT my Slann up field if needed to gain range on deploying my Razordons and ScV on CO. Try to find the corner of a horde unit to engage with the ScV on Co to make good use of Betrayer's Crown and with luck you will tie the unit up in combat for more than one turn or force an unfavorable retreat.

    Engage the enemies largest threat with your Ripperdactyls. This is where game knowledge is crucial. The threat potential of any given unit changes from list to list and based upon the given battleplan.

    The ScV on Carno is generally used as my second wave. I try to save this deployment for a counter attack to remove any units my opponent used to clear my Ripperdactyles.

    Note: Was edited for formatting purposes.

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
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  5. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    2000pt Thunderquake Starhost

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    LEADERS:
    Slann Starmaster
    (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Great Rememberer
    - Artefact : Miasmatic Blade

    Engine of the Gods (220)
    - Artefact : Spellmirror
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Skink Starpriest (80)

    UNITS:
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    -Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    4 x Razordons (160)
    3 x Skink Handlers (40)

    BEHEMOTHS:
    Bastiladon
    (280)
    Bastiladon (280)

    BATTALIONS:
    Thunderquake Starhost
    (120)

    ENDLESS SPELLS:
    Balewind Vortex
    (40)

    TOTAL: 2000/2000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
    WOUNDS: 118

    A pretty standard Thunderquake Starhost. Just shoot things.

    Spellmirror can get a lot of value in this list. Most of your army will be turtled within 8" of your EotG. Etheral Amulet on your EotGs is also a great option. Having all three of your behemoths be unrendable and healing d3 wounds per turn makes the army incredibly durable. If you change the army's realm to Shyish then I recommend Incandescent Rectricies on the Slann or one of Shyish's shooting artifacts on the Astrolith.

    Note: Was edited for formatting purposes.

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  6. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    2000pt Fangs of Sotek

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    LEADERS:
    Slann Starmaster
    (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Great Rememberer
    - Artefact : Miasmatic Blade

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (260)
    -Artefact : Doppelganger Cloak
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Saurus Sunblood (120)
    - Artefact : Betrayer's Crown
    Skink Starpriest (80)

    UNITS:
    40 x Saurus Warriors (360)
    - Spears
    20 x Saurus Warriors (200)
    - Clubs
    20 x Saurus Warriors (200)
    - Clubs
    4 x Razordons (160)

    BATTALIONS:
    Fangs of Sotek
    (70)
    Sunclaw Starhost (130)

    TOTAL: 2000/2000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2
    WOUNDS: 128

    This is the list I use for friendly 2k games. I love Fangs of Sotek, but this is not a list I would bring to a tournament. In terms of tactics try to make sure one of your 20 man saurus units is you first wave. When possible you want to aim for your 40 man spear unit to be the second wave. This to help make sure you are the one charging and are best able to select order of combat.

    Keep your Canro, Sunblood and Skinks Starpriest near your spears. When you have found a favorable combat for your spears then use your Oldblood's and Sunblood's command ability and watch your Saurus Warriors become inexplicably good.

    This list has a remarkably strong match up vs Demons of Khorne and Demons of Nurgle.

    Note: Was edited for formatting purposes.

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    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  7. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    2000pt Kroaknaddo

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    LEADERS:
    Lord Kroak
    (450)
    - General
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    -Artefact : Spellmirror
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Artefact : Miasmatic Blade

    UNITS:
    6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
    4 x Razordons (160)

    BATTALIONS:
    Shadowstrike Starhost
    (180)

    ENDLESS SPELLS:
    Balewind Vortex
    (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (60)

    TOTAL: 1990/2000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
    WOUNDS: 120

    This is how I run Kroaknaddo. Normally I am looking for the mortal wound snipe from my EotG turn one. Combined with Kroak it can be an insane amount of MWs. Add in the Shadowstrike Starhost and you can almost obliterate all your opponents important units in the first turn. Then spend the rest of the game flooding the board with summoned units.

    Note: Was edited for formatting purposes.

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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  8. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    2000pt 16 Razordons

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    - Mortal Realm: Ghur

    LEADERS:
    Slann Starmaster
    (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Great Rememberer
    - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm

    Skink Starpriest (80)
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Engine of the Gods (220)

    UNITS:
    20 x Skinks (120)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
    4 x Razordons (160)
    4 x Razordons (160)
    4 x Razordons (160)
    4 x Razordons (160)

    ENDLESS SPELLS:
    Balewind Vortex
    (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (60)
    Soul Snare Shackles (20)

    TOTAL: 2000/2000
    EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0
    WOUNDS: 129

    Razordons. Razodons, Razordons.

    Can be turned into a Dracothion's Tail Battalion to gain 1 drop, additional artifacts, and extra CP. Start with two units of Razordons on field and two in the Heavens. Drop one from the heavens turn one, and LoSaT the other two forward. Then drop the 4th unit in the 2nd turn.

    This list can be modified to drop 10 Skink, a Skink Starpriest, and Soul Snare Shackles in order to include a Saurus Astrolith Bearer.

    Note: Was edited for formatting purposes.

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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  9. GuaDan
    Temple Guard

    GuaDan Well-Known Member

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    Great thread, your list are always superb.
    The 1k shadowstrike is really top level.
    I have never fielded 16 razordons, but that list looks almost nagash-level broken. (3 EoTg and 16 Razordons? just wow)
     
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  10. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    I can see this being a great source for players so I've sticked it.
     
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  11. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    This thread is a nice idea.
    I tend to field a different list each time i play, so for me it would be more difficult to do a similar thing, but who knows? ;)
     
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  12. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    I have played some very similar lists, IMO all good choices. :)
     
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  13. Caleb ex nihilo
    Saurus

    Caleb ex nihilo Active Member

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    Nice lists!

    I normally play something similar to that Thunderquake list... sometimes with an extra EoTG.

    Currently working on converting up 16 Razordons.
     
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  14. Vexcor
    Temple Guard

    Vexcor Active Member

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    Have you ever played a 1000 point list with 10 chameleon skinks?
    i try to test them in a future match vs skaven, but i struggle with building a list.
    and i try not to bring a shadowstrike, because it will be a game with a friend and i i will play with him more often in the future :D
     
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  15. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you'l manage to really make chameleons work outside of a shadowstrike, especially in a small game. They lack synergy with everything else as shadowstrike and chameleons are our only ambushers, and they're just not very powerfull on their own. Plus, the re-rolls from shadowstrike does help them fairly significantly. Maybe if you face a daemon army, but in general they're just a bit too odd to fit in.


    minor sidenote, against skaven they might work to snipe weapon teams I guess. Those are weak enough that 10 chameleons should be guaranteed to kill them and are actually valuable targets and they don't have the look out sir rule to protect em.
     
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  16. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I generally do not list Chameleon Skinks in a 1000 point match. The 1k Shadowstrike list I use is highly tuned and I have not been able to improve it beyond what I have created so far.

    Chameleon skinks are more of a tool box unit than they are assassins. What Chameleons are fantastic at is engaging enemy shooting in combat while in cover. You can ambush into combat with a unit of Judicators and tie up their shooting for a few turns for example. Also, as @Canas mentioned, they are capable of removing low save and low wound backfield targets.

    Chameleon's could be a possible replacement for Razordons. However the reason Razordons are in my 1k list (beyong them being the only point efficient unit in our army) is for their outrageously good match up vs skeleton hordes. At 1k you should be able to alpha strike a 40 man unit of Skeletons with your Ripperdactyls and Razordons down to only a few models.
     
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  17. LizardWizard
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    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I have had a few people message me with regards of how I pilot the 2k Dracothion's Tail/Shdowstrike list.

    Normally I try not to give away too much of how I run the list out of fear that someone at an event will have read my posting. lol. At anyrate I have decided to post a quick Q and A. This is a series of question a player (@Wilhelm Stürmer ) has PM'ed me and my responses to them.

    Initial Q's and A's
    Q: What do you typically summon to the field or is that also situation?

    A: Summoning is very situational. In most cases I summon cheaply and often. There are several things I find myself summoning most often though. Skinks, sometimes Starpriest, and EotGs are normally my priority. If the game hasn't required that I summon on my first few turns then I will normally bring on an EotGs or replenish Ripperdactyls. I also like to summon Chameleon Skinks, even after the nerf that prevents them from summoning into ambush.

    Q: I've always kept the Slann hidden and screened, but Dracothian's Tail seems to depend on the Slann being out on the battlefeild. Aside from screening with the two units of Skinks, how are you keeping the Slann alive. It seems like he'd be a priority target for the opponent.

    A:Yeah, the Slann has to come out in the open. It is why I take Miasmic Blade. The -1 to hit helps significantly. Normally I will place him as far up as possible if I plan to take first turn. Then you can use two attempts to LoSaT the Slann to safety if the first one fails. If you take second you will have to the take the riskier move of using LoSaT to put your Slann in range and then send him back to safety. The Slann is always one of the last units I deploy. Don't forget that you can deploy some or all of a Battalion at any point during set up. This allows you to gain the most information from your opponent's deployment.

    Q: Based on this wording: "However, each reserve unit set up in the same turn must be a different unit chosen from a different warscroll" I'm guessing it's best not to have more than one unit of the same warscroll in the Heavens, as it forces you to only deploy one unit of that warscroll per Hero phase?

    A: Correct. I normally place my ScV on Carno, ScV on Coldone, 5 Saurus Knights, 4 Razordons, and the Rippderactyls in the Heavens. The Rippers and ScV coldone normally come down turn one. The Rippers follow the standard advice I frequently give in regards to Shadowstrike Starhost.

    The ScV on Cold is looking to charge the corner of a horde unit that I can use Crown of the Betrayer on and hopefully tie it up for a turn or two. Either because it will take multiple turns to effectively pile in, or because they will choose to retreat. Sometime I will support the ScV on CO with the Saurus Knights. This is done by pinning the opposite end of the same horde or by covering the ScV's flanks to reduce enemy pile in.

    I frequently save the Carno as a second wave if I feel confident that my Slann won't be assassinated. Ideally you will be able use the Carno as a threat and force your opponent to play more conservatively. I find that my opponent often forgets about the carno as well. This can allow you to bait your opponent into exposing a key hero or monster which you can then deploy your carno to engage.

    Follow Up Q's and A's
    Q: Part 1: Does having more than one Starpriest on the board help? I can see having the additional spell/dispell/unbind and of course the another Summon Starlight is great.

    A:
    Generally I only run with one Skinks Starpriest. The rule of one prevents you from casting or attempting to cast the same spell more than once per turn. If I am summoning a Skink Starpriest it is because the first one died.

    Q:You mentioned replenishing Rippers. They seem to be a mediocre unit if not in range of Blot Toad and having used their Swooping Dive. How are you utilizing them after that first dump? They can't go back into the sky for another Swooping Dive, correct?

    A: The goal is to add more Rippers to your army. They are not part of the original unit and thus can not ascend back to the clouds to swoop down. The hope is to keep sending them into units near the location of your original Bloat Toad so that they are still able to get their three bite attacks.

    Q: You mentioned using LoSaT twice on the same unit. I was unaware Seraphon could do that. I thought if you rolled a 1 or 2, that unit was stuck?

    A: Read the rules for LoSaT carefully. It says it cannot move or charge if you roll a one or two. You don't care about doing either of those things with your Slann. It also does not say that you can't use it on the same unit more than once. Deployment is always very important for Seraphon. Our biggest advantage is our mobility. The goal should be to force your opponent to respond to your placements in a way that puts them at a board disadvantage and then to capitalize on it with our allegiance abilities.

    Q: Are the models you leave in the Heavens typically out of sight? Playing at my local GW, I usually just have all my Seraphon models in a box and pull out summoned models as needed. I can see that making it easier for the opponent to forget, but it also seems a bit... unfair isn't the right word, maybe unsportsman?

    A: I normally only play Seraphon at Tournaments. I use my other Blades of Khorne and Maggotkin for friendly games. So yes, I keep the units in the heavens out of sight in my summoning box. My opponent always has a copy of my list and I ask them if they have any questions about my army before we start. They are presumably paying attention when I declare that something will be placed into the havens. After that it is up to them to ask for clarifications before they make choices. I myself am frequently asking to be reminded about the specific wording of my opponents rules.

    Sportsmanship is always subjective. The basics are not gloating, asking if your opponent wants to just call the game, deliberately slow playing to increase the odds of you winning, and cheating. Beyond that there isn't a rubric to score high in sportsmanship. I do try to make sure my opponent is having fun with the game and I get behind whatever if any morale victories they chose to set for themselves.

    One time I was at an event and got a novice SCE player for my first game. He told me he was new to the game and that his friend had loaned him the army. I let him know that I was quite familiar with the SCE army line and that I would try to remind him if he were about to miss any important rules. I also told him I was aiming for first place so I couldn't take it easy on him as I needed to score as many event points possible. I nearly tabled him turn one. He decided that his new goal would be to get his Gryph-hound across the table alive. He managed to do it with one wound. We spent the whole two hours laughing uncontrollably to the great confusion of the event hall.

    Note: Edited to include the name of the questioner.

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    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  18. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Hiding your reserves skirts the edges of unsportsmanlike, and it's definitly one of those that can make competitive enviroments feel rather unfriendly as it's one of those things where the blame can conveniently be pushed on your opponent (as @LizardWizard says, "after that it's up to them to ask for clarification", which makes sense in itself but never feels quite fair when you're on the recieving end). Unfortunatly you'l never really be able to get rid enitirely of these kind of things, people are just trying to win after all and they will make use of anything that's game legal to do so. And no matter how hard game designers might try to stop (percieved) unsportsmanship behaviour, there'l Always be things like this left that skirt the edge. It's a shame sportsmanship can't win you games...

    Imho hiding them at a high stakes tournament is fine, just make sure to balance it out by being otherwise pleasant to play with, hiding them when you're playing with your group of friends or at your local store is probably a bad idea if you want to be invited back :p
     
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  19. Vexcor
    Temple Guard

    Vexcor Active Member

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    and there is a nice point in showing him your models:
    the opponent know you can summon stuff, but not what.
    even if you will never summon your carnosaur or stegadon, just bring them and set them on the table aside.
    if he is afraid of big dinos in future turns, he will eventually do more mistakes in the actually turns :D
     
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  20. Nart
    Kroxigor

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    I agree - summoning is set up that way your opponent knows you can bring anything from your army. Giving him knowledge of what stuff you have is like giving him hints on what you are intended to do in the next few turns. It is up to you, of course, but it is unlikely that game designers planned it that way.
    It will barealy affect friendly games, but for a high tier player every bit of knowledge is important.

    LizardWizard, thank you for publishing and explaining your lists! Your input is invaluable, especially for players like me, who would like to have more AoS games but simply doesn't have such a possibility outside of tournaments.
     

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