1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tutorial Meeting Engagement tactics

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Bartuk, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    In this thread i want to collect as much usefull information as possible for meeting engagements, wich has some gamechanging limitations.

    In this post i would like to collect topics to touch on. I appriciate every help / criticism. :)
    Consider everything as work in progress.

    Table of Content:

    1. Unit Limits
    2. Order of appearence / Contigents / Setup
    3. Victory Points
    4. Building your list (examples)
    5. Realmshaper engine
    6. Common strategies
    7. ...

    1. Unit Limits:
    - 1000 Points

    - You must split your army into 3 contigents Spearhead, Mainbody, Rearguard each contigent must have at least 1 unit.

    Further restrictions are:
    - Everything must be in minimum unit size
    - you are allowed a maximum of 2 units of the same warscroll (excluding battalions)
    - you are allowed 1 Battalion, 1 endless Spell, 1 allied unit in min size, 1 CP

    Spearhead:
    - No: doublesized Unit / Artillery / Behemoth
    - 0-1: Leader, Battleline
    - 0-2: Other units

    Main Body:
    - No: Artillery
    - Only Battleline can be double sized
    - 1-2: Leader
    - 0-1: Behemoth
    - 1+ : Battleline
    - 0+ : Other Units
    - 0-1 :Behemoth

    Rearguard:
    - Any unit can be double-sized
    - 0-1: Leader
    - 0-1: Behemoth
    - 0-2: Artillery, Battleline, Other units

    2. Order of appearence / Contigents / Setup
    The 3 contigents arrive at different times wholly within 3" of that contigent's arrival edge all depending on the battle plan. (-> no screening)


    Example below:
    1.jpg

    This is one of the most important parts of (list buildung for) meeting engagements. Your double-sized unit of Salamanders / Terradons has to be in the Rearguard and may arrive after turn 2. Which means only 2 rounds of action for a big chunk of our 1000 Points. (ME's only last 4 rounds.)

    There are 6 battleplans with the following order of appearence:
    Start / After turn 1 / After turn 2
    S / M / R
    S / M / R
    M / S / R
    M / R / S
    R / M / S
    other player S / M / R
    S / M / R



    Your modells may overlap their arrival edge of the board, but they must have as much of their base on the board as possible. The smallest possible deployment zone is 10" x 3" consider this while splitting your army into the 3 contigents.

    2.jpg
    Below are some pictures. Of course a regular table is much bigger, but the deployment zone is marked on the paper. I will take better pictures someday. ;).

    Here is an example of a Slann and 10 Knights. (460 Points) You can see how stacked the deployment zone is.
    4.jpg

    If you deside to bring some buffing characters with your 10 Knights unit you can easily see the problem. (There may be a solution and you are not allowed 3 Leaders. I just try to point out what i am talking about. ;)) You have to solve the puzzle how to line up your deployment before you start deploying.
    3.jpg

    Below you can see an impressive example of a carno with some Saurus / Guard.
    Carno placed first -> 12 Saurus
    5.jpg

    Carno placed last -> 21 Saurus
    6.jpg

    Conclusions:

    - Never put your most important / most expensive units in your Rearguard. They will be only 1 out of 12 games your starting force and will arrive 9 out of 12 games AFTER turn 2.

    - Keep your synergies together in one contigent. (They may arrive on completely differnt edges of the board. See the above image.)

    - Get look out sir for your skink heroes if the enemy has any deepstrike because you can't screen them out.

    - Think about base sizes while dividing your army into the contigents.

    - If in doubt, place the biggest base last.

    3. Victory Points
    There is one more major difference to normal pitched battles. The game is no longer won by only capturing objectives.

    At the end of each battle round, you add up the Wounds characteristics of all enemy models that were slain during that battle round. The player with the higher total scores 2 victory points.

    You score 3 victory points for having the main / most objectives.

    There are 20 victory points to gather at max.

    Conclusions:
    - Objective play is still more important than killing your enemy but much less then in pitched battles.

    - This is why, skinks were bad before the new battletome and is a concern for me looking at Terradons / Skinks again.


    - You have to kill at least one model turn one because your enemy will do so.

    4. Listbuilding (Examples)

    List 1: Shooting Dracothion's Tail
    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

    SPEARHEAD
    Skink Priest (70)
    4 x Razordon Hunting Pack (80)
    4 x Salamander Hunting Pack (80)

    MAIN BODY
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Ancient Knowledge
    - Artefact : Godbeast Pendant
    - Spell : Stellar Tempest
    - Ancient Knowledge Spell : Mystical Unforging

    Skink Starpriest (120)
    - Spell : Hand of Glory
    10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
    - Clubs
    4 x Razordon Hunting Pack (80)

    REARGUARD
    8 x Salamander Hunting Pack (160)

    ENDLESS SPELLS
    Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
    Spearhead first:
    - The hunting packs provide Look out Sir for the Priest if you don't go first.
    - If you go first, buff one of your packs in your hero phase und LoSaT it to snipe the enemy hero first turn. (Get the DoT summon Hero, the lone Terrachief, the single wizard ...)

    Mainbody first:
    - Protect your Starpriest and Slann with Look out Sir.
    - Kill something with comet call and your LoSaT Razordon.
    - You can keep the Warrios off the table, if you are confident your Slann is going to survive if you don't go first.

    List 2: Stegadon Spearhead Thunderlizards
    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Mortal Realm: Ghyran
    - Constellation: Thunder Lizard

    SPEARHEAD
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - Spell : Stellar Tempest
    Stegadon (240)
    - Weapon : Skystreak Bow
    - Seraphon Battleline (Constellation: Thunder Lizard)

    MAIN BODY
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
    - General
    - Command Trait : Prime Warbeast
    - War Spear
    - Artefact : Fusil of Conflaguration
    Skink Starpriest (120)
    - Spell : Hand of Glory
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances

    REARGUARD
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Buckler

    990/1000

    - Rearguard first: tbd
    List 3: Kroak competetive
    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Fangs of Sotek

    SPEARHEAD

    Lord Kroak (320)
    - General
    - Spell : Stellar Tempest
    5 x Saurus Guard (100)
    3 x Kroxigor (140)
    4 x Salamander Hunting Pack (80)

    MAIN BODY

    Skink Starpriest (120)
    - Spell : Hand of Glory
    - Artefact : Serpent God Dagger
    20 x Skinks (120)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

    REARGUARD
    4 x Salamander Hunting Pack (80)

    ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
    Balewind Vortex or Quicksilver Swords

    TOTAL: 1000/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 59


    Things i consider important for this topic:
    (Not sorted)

    - small table (objectives 9 - 18" from starting edge - Screening objectives first turn / cleering screens)
    - threatrange vs 24-42 starting distance comets call / skystrikebow 32" / carno 10 + run + 12TL Fusil (+ Hunters steed)
    - 4 rounds instead of 5
    - Triumph for having less points
    - no / less hordes due to limitations
    - buffing is weaker
    - Salamanders weaker (only 2x1 or 2x2 arrive after 2 rounds)

    I will try to explain every topic in future posts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020 at 8:47 PM
  2. LizardWizard
    Skink Priest

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,938
    Likes Received:
    8,599
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Look forward to this thread.
     
    Lizerd and Bartuk like this.
  3. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The first 2 chapters are started. Feel free to give input / feedback. :)
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  4. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Chapter 3 and 4 are under construction now.
    I feel there is very little interest in meeting engagements here. Seems to be a local thing. :)
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  5. LizardWizard
    Skink Priest

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,938
    Likes Received:
    8,599
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am intersted in ME. All my local play group is either 2k games or slow grow leagues to bring more people in. I run some form a slow grow every 3-4 months for AoS locally. Otherwise it is just 2k pitched battles and Warcry. Enjoying the thread though :D
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  6. Koriialstraz
    Chameleon Skink

    Koriialstraz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    At the moment, like lot of people, It's difficult to play.
    And in normal time, I don't play a lot because it's hard to find time with my group.
    BUT I'm really interested in all the tactics that I can read. It's just a bad habit to just read and never comment.
    And I'm so frustrated because I'm stuck on the other side of the world from my home and I can't read my copy of the new battletome.
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  7. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    7,910
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm confused, why are you putting them on a piece of paper? Is that just to show? It somehow feels very weird.
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  8. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The smallest possible deployment zone is marked on the paper. What kind of showing would you prefer?
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  9. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    7,910
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right now it appears to me like the paper is the entire battlefield, which would be weird to say the least. As playing on a A4 paper is effectivly impossible.

    I'd try sticking them on a larger paper so you don't get the visual distinction between paper and table. Cuz I think that's what's throwing me off.

    Or I'd suggest very explicitly stating that this is purely a representation of how small the deploymentzone is and that the actual battlefield is significantly larger than an A4.
     
    Lizerd, LizardWizard and Bartuk like this.
  10. Ivan Ang
    Jungle Swarm

    Ivan Ang New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hi guys,
    I am new here. I am quite new to the game and will most likely only play ME since my store only supports it for tournament play monthly.

    For you shooting list do you still prioritise the same targets on the priority list from the other thread?

    And do you always LoSt to snipe of the target hero in the first turn?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  11. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hey, welcome :).

    LoSaT: I don't do it every game. You have to consider if you are going to gain more then you lose. But if the enemy has a summonig hero i will go for it every time if i can get him before he summons.

    If you know your oponent can't kill anything you can hold back too and forego the 2 victory points.

    Priority targets: You won't have much to chose. There will only be one or two heroes at one time. (Spearhead 1 / Mainbody 1-2) Killing some chaff is most of the time not worth to risk your Salamander/Razordon. (If you chose to let the 2 VP go.)
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  12. Ivan Ang
    Jungle Swarm

    Ivan Ang New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Ah I see thanks for the reply.
    So which list do you prefer? The stegadon spearhead or the shooting list?
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  13. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I prefer list 2. It is something new and you can use big dinos. ;)
    Although i had only one normal game before the lock down vs Ironjawz. The list felt pretty good but it should do so, because coalescend is favored against Ironjawz i think.


    Now i am restricted to either play vs my wife or myself. :rolleyes:
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  14. Ivan Ang
    Jungle Swarm

    Ivan Ang New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I see! Just to double confirm for list 2 you can use a behemoth (Stegadon) for the spearhead?
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  15. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yes. It loses his behemoth tag when it becomes battleline.
     
    Lizerd, Canas and LizardWizard like this.
  16. Überskink
    Jungle Swarm

    Überskink New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hey there!
    We also wanted to make an ME tournament in our community in summer (before Covid-19) to encourage new players with small games and i just played pitched play in the past.
    I was also thinking for going with thunderlizard but when you use the Warscroll Builder for Meeting Engagement the Stegadon becomes battleline
    but does NOT loose the behemoth tag. So with the Warscroll Builder you can not use stegadon in Spearhead.
    (sorry for my english i`m non native speaker)
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  17. Bartuk
    Cold One

    Bartuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I am not at home right now. I only found this with a quick search. Screenshot_20200328-120402_Samsung Internet.jpg
     
    Lizerd, Überskink and LizardWizard like this.
  18. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    7,910
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Warscroll builder is just wrong. IT seems terribly slow to update at times.
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  19. Überskink
    Jungle Swarm

    Überskink New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thank you for posting this link @Bartuk !
    I think you are right, but my problem is to tell this my opponents. It seems very unclear in Seraphon BT because there is only mentioned that Stegadons get Battleline when i´m using Thunderlizard. (not that they loose Behemoth tag)
    I was discussing this a month ago with them and they where arguing that there are servereal units with multiple tags (like Carno: Leader and Behemoth).
    So we said that we do it like Warscroll Builder does.
    My opponents will field Maggotkin (Affliction Cyst or Blight Cyst), Ironjawz and Fyreslayers so i think i have to go more the elite way.
    I think warriors or skinks wont last long against this units because of the small size of them.
    As an alternative i thought going with Kroak and Mortal Wounds.
    But i never played ME before so this is just theory, we wanted to play some testgames but then everything locked down.
     
    Lizerd and LizardWizard like this.
  20. LizardWizard
    Skink Priest

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,938
    Likes Received:
    8,599
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Check the OMT and FeC errata and designer commentary. Pretty sure there is something which addresses units losing the behemoth restriction once made battleline.
     
    Lizerd and xoid like this.

Share This Page