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Tutorial Mr. Phats: "What people forget about High Magic"

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Mr Phat, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Lately I have seen people turn away from high magic, and it confuses me as High Magic to me is the strongest lore in the game, without equal.

    While the elves attributes are pretty effective, people HIGHLY (pun not intended) neglect what ours can do.
    It seems to me that people aren't reading between the lines in what the lore actually does.
    It is able to affect any mechanic in the game if you "read" it right.
    As a former Magic the gathering player, I learned that some bad stuff is only bad because of your perspective, and will reveal an entire new value when you put it into appropriate context.
    This is my attempt to "re-write" The High Magic lore into new language that makes it more clear what you can do with it, as I fall more and more in love with it the more I play it.

    Disclaimer: I realise that some of these "re-writes" will in fact open up to unforeseen abuse.
    It is up to the reader to understand my specific intention with the new context, and to not read falsely into it.
    First of: You WILL buy Loremaster for High Magic to work.

    Second of:

    The attribute

    Can be re-written to

    "If the wizard succesfully casts a spell he may forget that spell.
    He now has 16.66% chance of being able to PICK ANY SPELL from one of the eight lores.
    if the attempt fails, he may keep whatever spell he rolled on that particular lore....or take something else is most certainly also useful."

    I cant count how many times I rolled the spell I was aiming for
    "COME ON purple sun! .....WAUW NEAT!"
    The trick is to know which spells in the different lores that can solve one or more problems you have with your opponents list.
    To my understanding, most people just roll with a "sooooome.....BEAST would be nice! lets see what I get" attitude towards it.
    Dont: know what you need, and roll for it.

    If you don't get it the first time, remember that your chances to pick it increases with the amount of spells you swap, as if you roll the same spell twice you can free pick.

    This leads me to a very important point:

    DO!NOT!BE!A!SPOILED!LITTLE!BRAT!

    "pfff, I dont just want High Magic and Death!! I want MORE lores!"

    Listen here: you started out with a perfectly awesome lore and now you have the privilege of SUPPLEMENTING that lore with another lore of your choice.

    Dont dedicate your rolls to the loreS you want, dedicate it to the lore you NEED,
    and when you get what you NEED...THEN we can start seeing if it benefits you to swap more.
    This also creates the trick that your opponent will be more an more anxious on you getting High Magic through.
    You know that Lizard feeling at the start of the game where your opponent tells you he have both Purple sun and Pit of shades?
    How would you feel if that changed to "Im about to get Purple Sun, unless you stop me".
    That is the position you must have your opponent in.

    Another trick I've learned is to think of multiple spells while you swap.

    Example:
    "I have one spell to swap, and I need something that can deal with armoursave and I need something that can deal with cannons"
    First thought: maybe metal for armour save, and heavens for cannons...but that is two lores, so you have to choice one and then you might not get what you need.

    Second thought: how about shadow for both?

    If you have limited rolls you might as well think of how you get at least SOMETHING you can use.
    If you roll on shadow you can either get:

    Pit of shades - kills cannons outright , and in many cases also the high armoured target
    Okkhams mind razor - now your troops dont have problems with armour anymore.
    Pendulum - has a fair chance of killing cannon or armored beast.

    if any actually solution dont present itself, then you at least rolled a Remains in play that can give your armored lance bad toughness or bad strenght

    and if that never happens, you never worse of than defaulting for a Miasma, which can be used in almost all games to my experience.

    If you think like this you have a WAY higher probability to score a solution, and if you get good at it
    the faster you can get your hands of a spell that makes your enemy sweat.

    For a final point towards the attribute: If you suffer from the
    "I dont wanna swap this spell, what if I am going to need it later?" sickness
    Then ask yourself what weighs most: a "I might needs this" or a "I am actually needing this.
    If you swap correctly you will never lack the effect you need (with few exceptions, but we will get to that),
    and since you are THINKING of swapping for a certain spell, it means that you need it!

    Speaking of spells...


    Signatures

    Drain Magic -
    The only effect in the game that can remove hexes or buffs.....seriously! this spell is so overlooked that it worries me!

    Can be re-written to:

    A. "Half the duration of target buff or hex with 50%".
    --> Your enemy charged your stubborn block with a unit that has 3 light buffs on it?
    Well, for 2 of your dice those buffs are now gone, and all the dice he invested in those spells now only profited half.

    B. "Remove Fiery Convocation for 2 dice instead of many"
    ---> In my meta there's a lot of high magic. If you have just once thrown all your power-dice to get rid of a convocation on your TG block, then you know just how ridiculously good this one is.

    C. "Force your opponent to decide if the spells he cast last turn are worth more dice in this one".
    ---> This often works best with hexes, as buffs more often than not plays their worth the turn they are cast.
    If he spend 3 dice to throw doom and darkness on your general, soulblight on your combat block or the like of it.. will he be willing to throw MORE dice into maintaining the effect?

    Attribute use:

    Enemy don't have anything you can use it on?
    1 dice it and swap it and try to get a spell that may be a problem to him.
    Which can be re-written as "The Wizard forgets this spell, and may normally generate another spell from the lore of his choice". For 7+ ? that is actually a good effect, especially as your opponent most likely will hate to throw dice at a spell that "doesn't do anything".
    You can play mindgames with them here "hmmm...look at that steam tank. would be too bad if someone got Gehennas golden hounds or Searing doom on it huh?...."





    Soul Quench -
    A cheap, fairly strong and fairly ranged magic missile that can be boosted for QUITE some damage.

    While this spell cant really be re-written to anything else than "kill target Great eagle much" the attribute makes it a pretty solid spell to swap! (I actually came up with the following as I was writting this.)

    Attribute use:

    Out of the eight lores three of them have magic missiles as signatures, and one of them has something close enough (Spirit leech).

    This basically means that you cast Soul Quench and decide to swap it for A fire, light, metal or death spell you can always choose the signature magic missile.
    And that can be re-written to

    "By changing your magic missile into another magic missile you get a free attempt to roll an awesome spell"

    Also remember: Soul Quench is a signature spell, which means you can automatically get it back the next time you cast a high magic spell.



    1. Apotheosis

    This spell could be re-written "Target a wounded Character gets +1 W on its profile"
    (This is where you, the reader, is clever enough to see what I mean, and not what this could also mean game mechanic wise.)

    If something finally starts to get wounds through on your Vets and bloods, this one can in theory cancel EVERY combat round or Shooting phase your opponent had against you character: "so...took you 4 rounds to put two wounds on my oldblood? ...well...those 4 rounds just got nullified...but only on your side...the wounds I made still count in dead".

    Healing is VERY valuable in warhammer. There is 1 wound between a Scar vet and an Oldblood, and that 1 wound could come from this spell.
    It is SO cheap that you can 1 dice it, and if you have Tetto on the table you should.

    Attribute use:

    It is also one of the better spells to swap, as you can maintain its effect no matter what you roll on life.
    Sure, you cant boost it anymore, and that is the exact reason you should hesitate in swapping it.
    For W2 characters it wont matter, but if you run monsters or old-bloods that "heals 2 wounds" can really be a game changer. Consider this



    2. Hand of Glory
    Again, I dont think lizard players know what this spell "actually" does.
    What it does can be re-written to "Target unit does what it does, just better".
    But what it also does is that it can be used in combat for big chances in the combat ress

    We throw Iceshard blizzard for -1 to hit on enemies all the time...this spell effectively does the same AND have a chance of giving us +1 to hit at the same time?
    Lizzies forget that higher weapon skill affects both offense and defense.
    As we are almost always on the lower end it is hard for us to imagine hitting on 3's with saurus.
    "NOOOO Mr Phat! Cause I play the LIGHT LIGHT!"
    Good for you, then I am happy to inform you that in MANY cases Hand of Glory will work almost as well as speed of light.

    If your enemy is WS4 it means that hand of glory will AT least make you hit equally.
    Speed of light would make him hit on 5's, and that's why its better.
    For WS5 there is a chance that the spell wont matter at all, but has 2/3 chance of working to your advantage.
    If you hit a +3 then it is as good as Speed of light.
    The difference being it is NOT certain that you roll a +3, but it CAN be certain that you HAVE Hand of Glory with loremaster, meaning you can build around it.

    In most cases the initiative boost isn't enough to do a difference, so take this for the +/- to Hits in combat.

    or...for one of its many many many other options that Speed of light cant even get close to cover:

    It can boost your skinks skirmishers movement and shooting
    (have you ever seen a unit of skirmishers with +3 to movement get behind enemy lines? I have!)
    It can make your Razordons shooting wreck face.
    It can boost your cold one bus or Saurus hordes movement
    (and make their extra PF's more likely to hit)
    It can boost a stegadons BS so that it can actually HIT with its bow for once
    (Combine this with apotheosis and the basic stegadon suddenly becomes a fair choice)

    Attribute use:

    This is one of those I close to never swap.
    It is simply too good and the only time I would consider it was if it was the only spell I got through and a lucky roll on the swap could win me the game the following round.


    3. Walk Between worlds
    This spell can Win and save games on its own.
    In a game where movement is all, this one is a gift from the gods.

    I usually see people use it aggressively: "I move my TG block 20'' inches your way" or "My skinks are now knocking at your Cannons front door."..or my favourite "yea....yea these 3 salamanders are now at the flank of your T3 horde.....im not even sorry".

    Nothing wrong with that, but it also has TOWERING potential as a defensive spell.

    It can be Re-written in a couple of ways:

    A. "Target unit wont get charged, as it is no longer in the charging units front arc."

    B. "Target chaff unit that didn't get in the way in time to save your TG bunker from a Flank attack, actually got in the way in time to save your TG bunker from a Flank attack"


    And, if you think forward and have no unacceptable risks on running your Cowboys as a unit BY THEMSELVES:

    C."Target unit consisting of 3 fully kited oldbloods gets to move a total of 34'' first turn, meaning whatever your opponent had to shoot them down with, only has 1 turn to do so."

    Attribute use:
    I have saved my slann with this so many times that Í literally never swap it.
    This is one of those spells you can never wait a turn to get of, keep this one, and learn to place your units so that Walk Between Worlds can possibly place them for following victory or safety.


    4. Tempest
    This one is, to me at least, the least impressive spell in the bunch....that said: its still good enough!

    I would categorize it as Iceshard blizzards brother (not bigger, not smaller), as its purpose clearly isn't the damage output, but to reduce the amount of firepower whatever it hits has.

    It should really be re-written as "This is a different kind of blizzard."

    What it does better than iceshard blizzard is that it can affect multiple units, and potentially an entire Cannon line if they are placed close together.

    What it does worse than iceshard blizzard is that it has to put in a wound to do so.
    It also cant be cast into combat as it is a direct damage,
    and it cant reduce leadership.

    While its range is shorter it CAN be cast through an Arcane vassal, which does have its used such a spell.

    Attribute use:
    This is my go to swap spell.
    I almost always throw it turn 1, and unless I am facing elves or something equally squishy and shooty they let it through, fearing the other spells that I can get in range with Arcane vassal.
    I dont have much else to say about it. It is good because of our attribute, and not that much else.

    5. Arcane Unforging
    A. "Potentially removes all survivability from an enemy character. If he was a combat character, he might now be useless."

    B. "That 50pts item your opponent spend on a magic item instead of troops is now gone, which means you have effectively killed of 50pts troops + whatever task he can no longer fullfil."

    C. "If cast when your opponent has no or almost no dice left: Target dispel scroll is now gone"
    ("BUT MR. PHAT!!! What if he just uses the scroll to dispeOOOOH!!! :O")

    D. "Target Canned character gets snipped for a wound....and some other stuff".

    E. "Destroy target magic Banner...... of the World dragon"

    F. "Target unit who relied on an obsidian lodestone for safety, is no longer safe".

    Are you following?
    This spell is close to cheating...if I have to refer to Magic the Gathering again I would put this in light as "discarding".
    What you are doing is not shattering an item, you are shattering the plan your enemy had for that character or item.
    You are taking points he could have spend otherwise, and removes them from his overall list.

    Example: Here is Tony, Tony is YOUR Scar-vet.
    You and Tony have a really good relationship, as Tony, his Great Weapon, his Cold one and his Armour of Destiny have done many great things for you through time.

    This time however, Tony gets hit by arcane unforging.
    His Armour of destiny shatters, is reduced to 1 wound and now has to live through your enemies shooting phase with a 3+ armour save as his only friend!
    Lets hope he survives! but for how long will he?
    If only YOU had chosen a lore that could both heal him and get him out harms way with a 20'' move!

    Anyway, Tonys and your relationship is put to the test as he can no longer be there for you without dying and giving up his points to your opponent. You know this, and it stresses you as you were really counting on Tony to do some heavy lifting!

    ....I think you got it.
    This is one of these spell you opponent SHOULD hold back dice to stop.
    He might not, but that's really his and his version of Tony's problem.

    Attribute use:

    This one is really up to you while playing, as you have a pretty good chance to know when it has served its use (especially in an ETC environment as we play with open lists).
    Its pretty important before the game begins to know what items/characters you want to weaken, and then get rid of it as soon as that is accomplished.



    6. - Fiery Convocation
    A. "Target T3 horde dies."

    B. "Your enemy has to decide whatever his deathstar or his next magic phase is most important".

    This one most people has already understood pretty well.
    Its big, it burns stuff and it keeps burning stuff until your enemy decides to throw an ungodly amount of power-dice its way in a risky attempt to stop it.
    (Too bad he doesn't have drain magic huh?)

    What is important with Fiery Convocation though, is how it works with the

    Attribute:

    The first time you cast it is the only time you cast.
    If your opponent has two infantry blocks it is most likely not a good Idea to stop one Convocation to swap targets.
    So what you are going to is pick the right target, cast the spell, and swap it.

    Most people thinks that forgetting a spell ends its remain in play effect, It doesn't, which mean you can swap for another spell and still have convocations effect on the table.

    And...since you only will need one casting of it, why not surprise your opponent with a power-scroll?

    PLEASE BE AWARE: The Power Scroll in your rule book has been FAQ'ed. What it does now is that it halves the casting cost of a spell the turn it is cast.
    Meaning you will be able to cast a Fiery Convocation reliably with 3 dice, then swap it.
    AND as it is direct damage, you can get in range with a skink priest turn 1.

    The scroll can also come in handy if you roll another big 6 spell that works better on your intended target, how does a 9+ to cast Dwellers or 8+ Final transmutation sound?
    ______________________________________________




    TL;DR

    High Magic is awesome because of its whole rather than its separate parts.
    Many other lores seem to have more impact because the are focused to begin with, but as soon as you begin to see your opportunities with High you will see how it can have equally if not bigger impact.

    It is a very hard to lore to master, and I must admit that I forget a lot of the above while in the game as it is easy to lose track of all your options.
    When it works it works really well, and it leaves you with the feeling of having done a good job that 5dicing a Purple Sun from your flying daemon prince never could.

    High Magic is a lore of finesse, and it is very hard if you aren't experienced with magic phase meta in general.


    For those who are neglecting it: try to see options instead of limits :p
    To my experience you can work towards something gamechanging in all situations.
     
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  2. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    I haven't read the full thing yet ....but.

    I allready learned somethiing new!!! Never thought of swapping soul quench before.
     
  3. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    I think for some (me) it's an acquired taste. The lore just never clicked with me, at all. I find the attribute to be interesting and then not. It's likely because I'm not so good a risk taker meaning that I look at those 16,66% and think "nah not to day brehh" and instead use the lore itself.
    The lore itself is IMO just okay. Alright maybe "good", but not quite in the same league as other lores. I personally prefer loremaster of Heaven, but that's just me. The reason:

    • Soul Quench is your run off the mill magic missile that can be boosted to be rather expensive.
    • Drain Magic is good and cheap. I like cheap. But on the other hand it doesn't actually wound in any way, shape or form and can only be used in our turn meaning that we've likely already suffered in one combat phase.
    • Healing spell is alright, you just need a use for it and the most likely candidat for this is an Oldblood IMO. IF you do happen to have the right OB he'll be unstoppable and with a base value of 5+ to cast this is super cheap and can be super effective when used right.
    • Hand of Glory. Another cheap spell :D It's a reverse miasma. Best used on TGs, but can also be used well against large saurus units. It's both defensive and offensive and at 5+ what's to complain about? A VERY good spell IMO.
    • Walk Between Worlds is.. something that require you to know what you want from it. You need to have a very key unit you want to move because it aint gonna move the rest of the army. It can be highly effective in the right hands although I wish it granted the fly rule since that would've allowed all kinds of wonderful shennanigance. I'm likely too nub to use.
    • Tempest is iMO one big MEH - scatter AND S3? On the other hand it can do a number on anything it touches and since we already have all spells it's not like we "suffer" from having "chosen" this spell. No we have it among many other spells and can thus choose to use it against T3 lighly armoured units, such as elfs and discard it against T4. An alright spell, but it doesn't impress me.
    • Arcane Unforging is another one of those HM spells considered very good among many, but not me. I think the important part is to think of it like tempest - it's good to have when you need it - but against some it's just kinda there. I think it's a spell that very heavily rely on knowing your opponents usual tricks - meaning you'll have to know a fvckton of setups. Some are easy - DP? Just do it. White Lions? Just do it. The Empire combat lord? uh.. Not so sure.
    • The uber spell is cheap compared to other uber spells and decent. Every model takes a S4 hit, flaming, and it continue off into the next magic phase so you can effectively ruin your opponents magic phase. Again, against some this will be very good and agaisnt others it'll just be kinda me. An overall *good* spell.
    So according to myself most of the spells are somewhat situational which just goes to play as a strenght since there'll be times where you can use some spells and other times where you'll just switch them out. Now if I wasn't such a retard I'd probably enjoy switching spells more :android:

    So one somewhat unorthodax claim could be that since the lore itself is both situational and never really exceptional (my opionion) and the lore attribute is random it just goes to play with the notion that magic shouldn't be relied upon. What I mean is that if you pick lore of death for purple sun and you don't get it will you then be satisfied with the other spells? You never have that issue here. You have a bunch of good, but not great, spells that can definately be put to use. It just need the right player to do so.

    Personally I've enjoyed Wanderind Deliberation more. 8 spells more or less all good along with the related attribute. It's very versatile and there's always something you can use. The biggest downfall of WD is that there is no uber spell.

    Now, with 50% lord I could find myself using it some more. You can have a fully kitted OB and a very well equiped Slann.
     
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  4. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    Something worth mentioning about Apotheosis in the early turns is that it also gives you Fear. So while it might not restore a lost wound it might give you an edge in the skirmish/flank battle. Usually these troops will be outside of the stupid SYG radius so fear actually becomes somewhat useful. It's not game breaking but it can protect a skink unit.
     
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  5. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    Movement spells are imho the best spells in the book. Yes, the fly rule or being allowed to move through units (like those annoying hexwraiths) would be better, but this is so extremely powerfull allready. This spell can really mess up your opponents plans, especially when he relies on a deathstar. My personal favorite btw is casting it on sallies, to get them in a perfect firing position on turn 1/2 (and if i am not mistaken even the 20 inch one does not count as marching). In some cases i even sacrifice the sallies (biy placing them in a bad spot) if i consider one round of shooting worth the risk. My best result was bbq-ing ca. 16 out of 24 woodelf archers this way on my turn one.

    Also, every NON orc & goblin player out there fear the Foot of Gork, but most orc players consider the Hand of Gork (the movement spell) the best spell in their lores.
     
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  6. Avak786
    Saurus

    Avak786 Active Member

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    Forgive me if i'm wrong, but doesn't Walk Between Worlds give the the target unit ethereal as they move so the unit can move through other units?
     
  7. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Ethereal units can't move through other units. ____.
     
  8. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    I cant double check right now, but as far as I am aware the ethereal rule only specifically allows you to move through (impassable) terrain without hinderance. It doesn't say anything about other units, so i believe normal movement rules apply there, thus they cant move through other units.

    For hexwraiths it is specifically stated in their rulez that they can move through enemy units (and deal damage).
     
  9. Avak786
    Saurus

    Avak786 Active Member

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    Ahh Okay, we just treated the ethereal rule in my local group as being able to move through whatever in an interpretation of RAI for Ethereal
     
  10. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    My first thought was also that they should be able to move through, but i really dont think GW intended them to be able to move through. Off course if there is consensus in your gaming group you can do what you want, but I do think both RAW and RAI are pretty clear here that they shouldn't be able to move through.
     
  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Walk Between Worlds also allows you to spring your opponents fanatics with impunity... or destroy one on the field without taking any damage.
     
  12. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    Yep yep yep, this covers much of what I thought about HM plus some new perspective on its use.

    Thankyou, Mr.Phats! I'll be sure to leave an apple on your desk.

    The only thing that makes me not want to use it is I just use it too damn much. I want to taste the other lores too.
     
  13. Agrem
    Kroxigor

    Agrem Active Member

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    I think Pinktaco has summarized the lore quite well. I also think that it is good overall but not as good as the most of the rest available. There are spells that are great in almost every turn and situation but I feel that there are too many that do only work in very specific situations. This is actually the same reason why I have recently gravitated away from lore of life even though dwellers is really good. But when there is magic phases when you can do close to nothing it's not really worth it.

    I agree that the lore requires quite a lot of practice and finesse to work with and maybe that is what I lack and is causing my biased view on it. :p
    Spell swapping does sound really cool but when you only get the spell you want 17% of the time it's not that great. Atleast I do not like those odds. :D
    You could always revert back to signature spells that are usually decent but then again why don't you just take WD in the first place?

    I have tried to give the lore a chance from time and a time but I always feel that I could do better with something else.

    BR
    Agrem
     
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  14. GreenMachine
    Skink

    GreenMachine Member

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    Arcane unforging: This spell is close to cheating. So wonderfully put. I've had a handful of games where I've been able to destroy a blenderlord's ogre blade turn 1 and he's spent the rest of the game cowering before the might of my oldblood. Or demoting an unkillable chaos lord to a hide-and-go-seek lord. Turn one a 13+ spell has changed the game as well as any purple sun or pit of shades has. I'll often take three dice and put them aside while looking my opponent in the eye and saying "I'm saving those for arcane unforging" and watch as they let every other spell through because they're so scared of it going off. I mean, have you ever gotten this off on a Dwarf Lord and watched as his gromril armor with three runes worth 150pts collapses? It's awesome.

    Tempest really is under-rated as you get that off on a unit and even the lord inside is going to be -1 in combat. Oops.

    Just as you said, the spell swapping needs to be pro-active, not reactive. You need to plan ahead with it and pull from lores that will benefit you throughout the rest of the game. Switching to lore of metal might be nice if someone has black knights, but it'll only benefit you against that unit. Whereas switching over for enfeebling foe or withering or pit or mindrazor can benefit against that unit and every other one in the enemy army.

    Best High magic write up I've read

    10/10 would take this lore again.
     
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  15. airjamy
    Razordon

    airjamy Active Member

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    There is so much exxageration in this post, i can't even handle it. Some reasonable points, but most of this should not be taking as written but with tons of salt. Hand of Glory is a lot worse then Speed of Light par example, being WS 10 and I10 is a massive difference from just getting a D3 increase, and most of the units that you want to bugg with the Speed of Light have no use for the other stats Hand of Glory gives you, i am looking at you Sauri. The lore of High Magic is a great toolbox lore, and i use it a lot. It lacks good template damage, tempest is simply a bad spell against anything but elves. It also lacks good CC buffs, i feel like i always have to have at least Wyssans to help in combats. In theory, it is the best lore in the game, as it gets better as the game progresses to what you need, but at the start of the game, when the damage counts the most, it often succeeds to dissapoint in the damage and buff department.
     
  16. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Im not forcing you, feel free to disagree.
    I will not however just sit here and take you talking down about my credibility.

    You are directly sitting there and yelling "I know better" only to proceed and prove that you haven't even read the post properly

    There is nowhere in this post where I call Hand of Glory better than Speed of Light, YOU brought that up.
    I state that sometimes it is ALMOST as good (in combat)
    I even state how Speed of Light is better in that very situation.

    "......Speed of light would make him hit on 5's, and that's why its better........."


    My point about Hand of Glory in particular is that it has uses across many other aspects in the army, which Speed of Light doesn't.
    If you are limited to a Saurus point of view as default. then you are simply not fit to contribute to this thread.

    Take it elsewhere, and leave out the degrading tone next time you address me or points I made.
    That will be the last of it.
     
  17. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Maybe I just misunderstood but he said *this post* so I understood that he was being sarcastic about his own post? :)
     
  18. protector
    Temple Guard

    protector Active Member

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    So to make this lore into the best then you need access to wyssans... which is guaranteed the first time you cast a high magic spell if you so desire. And how the heck is the 1st magic turn the most important? At that point your opponent has all the time he needs to adjust his plan and counter your moves, a damage based spell is so much more effective after he has committed to an action and really needs his unit at full fighting potential turn 3 onwards. Also it has a great magic missile and an awesome damage everyone spell (much more effective than a template), I don't even use the lore hardly at all and I can see its abilities that seem to contradict what you are saying.

    I guess your experience differs, but I seriously think you could bring a lot more pain to your opponents if you laid your plans for effective magic later in a game, focus on a key round of combat or turn 4-5 damage where you could cripple a unit with one spell. I will almost always save my dispel scroll for later in a game even if that means taking a hard spell in the face, that is because it is later where the win or loss is really determined, after all forces and tricks have been deployed. But that is my experience.
     
  19. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Definitely true! It's one of the only things my unkillable chaos lord is afraid of.
     
  20. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    He doesn't really say the first turn is the most important. He says that damage spells are more important on turn one.

    However I dont really see the issue with High magic in that regard. Soul quench is a decent missile, tempest is not so good but thats why people let it go through, Unforging can nick a wound off a character allready and convocation is a total killer and is guarenteed to draw out that dispel scroll.

    And I doubt there is a single Lizardmen player who uses High magic without taking the loremaster upgrade, so you have 4 turn one spells while most other wizards have 4 spells in total!

    Anyway, when people complain about High Magic, i would recommend playing with Big Whaag magic for a while. :(

    -useless a magic missile with a line template. So only able to do one hit against most chaff.
    -pretty useless snipe spell doing a single S4/5 hit.
    -mostly useless combat buff.for the caster himself, who you dont want to have in combat anyway.
    -A great movement spell
    -A decent snipe spell against wizards, but with unreliable range.
    -A mediocre buff
    -A good damage spell, that can seriously backfire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
    Scalenex and NIGHTBRINGER like this.

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