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AoS Need some advice on my first Seraphon list! :)

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by mob232, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. mob232
    Jungle Swarm

    mob232 New Member

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    Hey together,
    I jumped in to AoS recently and choose the Seraphon. First thing I bought was the SC Box and decided to go with the Oldblood on Carno.Now there is that nice Christmas Box with a huge money save and I'm thinking about grabbing it around christmas. My goal is a 1500p list, because thats the local meta at my store. I also will face my brothers work in progress bloodbound at 1500!
    I decided to go with a summoning heavy list, I like the versatility and that I will be able to play all the units I will get along the road without the need of integrating everything in a set list.
    I'll also buy an Astrolith Bearer and of course a Slann early next year. So now that you know what I got, here is the first idea:


    ++ **Pitched Battle** (Order - Seraphon) [1490pts] ++

    + Leader +

    Saurus Astrolith Bearer [160pts]

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur [260pts]

    Skink Starpriest [80pts]

    Slann Starmaster [260pts]

    + Behemoth +

    Bastiladon [280pts]: Solar Engine

    + Battleline +

    Saurus Knights [90pts]: 5 Saurus Knights, Celestite Lance

    Saurus Warriors [100pts]: 10 Saurus Warriors, Celestite Spear

    Skinks [120pts]: 2x 10 Skinks, Boltspitters and Moonstone Clubs

    + Other +

    Ripperdactyl Riders [140pts]: 3 Ripperdactyl Riders

    I know there are not that many units I'll be able to summon at the start, but I got the Troglodon, some Terradons and my possibilities will grow when I got some more units.
    I would be happy if you got some useful tips for a new player, maybe some better ideas for my list and what to buy next. I'm not really set on summoning if it isn't viable that early, so if it would be better to go with a more conventional list at the start I could also do that. I'm just kind of unsure and a absolute noob to AoS.

    Greetings and thank you for your help! :)
     
    Paradoxical Pacifism likes this.
  2. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Welcome!

    As for your list: it is a bit of a mixed bag, but I think that it will enable you to learn the game and you can develop from there.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  3. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to AoS and Lustria Online!

    You've got a good start to your army. The bundle is a fantastic buy. Many stores were not alloted their requested want numbers on the Bundles. I would grab one sooner rather than later.

    You might rather run your regular Skinks Pirest as a Skink Starpriest. Summon Starlight is extremely powerful. Especially vs most Chaos armies who do something extra on a 6+ to hit. Lowering their hit by one will rob them of their explosive affect.
     
  4. mob232
    Jungle Swarm

    mob232 New Member

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    Thanks for your replies!
    So a Starpriest it will be! My local store doesn't even have the boxes in stock, so I need to order it anyways.^^
    What do you mean with mixed bagß
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  5. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    I assume he meant your list was a bit all over the place. You have a few Warriors, a few Knights, a few Skinks. Normally you only see Warriors in Fangs of Sotek, Knights in Fire Lance, ect. There is nothing wrong with a 10 man unit of Saurus Warriors. However, don't expect them to win trades against more than enemy chafe units.

    At 1500 there is a good chance no one will be running battalions and most of Seraphons meta are battalion centered. If you want to check at the four competitive battalions they are as follows: Shadowstrike Starhost, Thunderquake Starhost, Fangs of Sotek, and Dracothion's Tail.
     
    tom1017 likes this.
  6. mob232
    Jungle Swarm

    mob232 New Member

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    Hmm, maybe I should try to go with a Shadowstrike while maintaining a somewhat summoning focused core. Could this work? I at least would have the flyers and a core of 20 skinks.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  7. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    Yep, Summoning list are complemented well by Shadowstrike. They are able to replenish your glass cannon Ripperdactyls.
     
  8. mob232
    Jungle Swarm

    mob232 New Member

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    Maybe a list including a Shadowstrike Battalion could look like this:

    Saurus Astrolith Bearer [160pts]

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur [240pts]: Celestite Greatblade

    Slann Starmaster [260pts]

    + Behemoth +

    Troglodon [160pts]

    + Battleline +

    Saurus Warriors [100pts]: 10 Saurus Warriors, Celestite Spear

    + Battalion +

    Battalion: Shadowstrike Starhost [580pts]: Skink Starpriest
    . Ripperdactyl Riders: 3 Ripperdactyl Riders
    . Skinks: 2x 10 Skinks, Boltspitters and Star-bucklerss
    . Skinks: 10 Skinks, Boltspitters and Star-bucklers

    Carno and Troglodon could, together with the skinks, be played agressive, delay the enemy and make room for my sommoning, while still being lethal and a threat which needs to be dealt with. Warriors just fill the third battleline slot, maybe I could use them to screen the slann until I can get more skinks.
    I also could cut the Troglodon, play 6 Ripperdactyls and keep it as a summoning option later in the game.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  9. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    3 more Rippers is stronger than a Trog. I love the trog model, but sadly he is lack luster on the table. The Troglodon makes for a solid summoning option though. If his spit causes damage in the shooting phase you have good chance of making his charge.
     
  10. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Huh. I wanted to post a reply here but it seems it didn't work...

    Yeah what I meant was that Saurus and Skinks don't share many synergies so it is unusual to mix them. It can work though.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  11. tom1017
    Skink

    tom1017 Member

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    Ok so this is a bit out of the subject here so sorry for highjacking the thread but I need to ask:
    My friends and I just realized modifiers apply late after a die roll so to reroll you have to fail the basic roll (ie before taking the modifiers in account). This, by the way, makes "rend" quite more efficient.
    Now about Starlight, if you cast it on Chaos units, their final results will imply the -1, but the 6+ to hit should still be taken in account and give them their bonuses, or am I missing something?
     
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  12. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    Nope, they lose the bonuses. That is why Nighthaunt and SCE having "unmodified 6 to hit" is strong.

    The modifiers being applied after roll only affects the ability to reroll dice. If you had an ability that said reroll all failed saves and you roll a 4 on the 4+ save, but the attack had a rend of -1 then you wouldn't be able to reroll the 4. Because the 4 was a success, but the end result after applying rend was still a fail. Meaning you take the damage and do not get to reroll the four. Same for 6+ to hit. The 6 would be successful, but the end result is still a trigger fail. Thus it does not proc the 6+ bonus. If it was a 6 bonus then it would still trigger. The "+" is crucial.

    Sorry if I over explained the rule for modifiers. It can be tricky to understand.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    GuaDan, tom1017 and Aginor like this.
  13. tom1017
    Skink

    tom1017 Member

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    It is tricky indeed, but I think I got the main point.
    Pity I understood it after converting my 20 orruk warriors with 2 weapons (can reroll 1s when attacking) to 20 warriors with weapon + shield (can reroll when failed 5+ save)...
    I was looking for resilience, I end up a tad disappointed :'(

    edit: On second thoughts, any chance you could explain more the "If it was a 6 bonus then it would still trigger. The "+" is crucial" part? I'm not sure I completely see what you mean.
     
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  14. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing. A "'number'+" means that modifiers will impact triggers unless directly stated otherwise. For example all of Nighthaunt have the Ethereal rule which states that their saving rolls can not be modified in any way. Meaning that even though they have, for instance, a 4+ save it would be unimpacted by the +1 of cover or rend -1. So, if a unit has an ability that causes something to happen on a hit roll of a 6+ then they would need to have a dice roll result in a 6 or more after modifiers. Meaning that if you were able to give that unit +1 to hit then their hit effect would trigger on 5's and 6's because of the +1. Like wise if you modify the roll with a -1 then they would need to roll a 7 to generate the trigger effect.

    In summation: success and failure occur before modifiers, but results are resolved after modifiers.

    That is why Summon Starlight is so powerful. It allows you to rob units of their 6+ to hit bonus. Unless they have other stacking +'s to hit. Eitherway, it lets you reduce the amount of exploding 6's.
     
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  15. tom1017
    Skink

    tom1017 Member

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    Hmmm... Is there some kind of subtle difference here between dice roll and hit roll?

    About Summon Starlight: it gives -1 to foes when they attack, so if they roll a 6 the result is 5. This part I understand. But then the foes lose habilities/bonuses needind a result of 6 or more, but not the ones needind a dice roll of 6. Is that right?
    (If it is, I'm afraid I still don't see the difference between the need of a 6 or the need of a 6+, but then it's probably due to the fact English is a second language).
     
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  16. LizardWizard
    Stegadon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    So the fundamental difference is between determining a successful result and the numerical value of the result. The dice result is always the number shown. But the value can be different than the roll result. The value of a dice roll equals the numbers shown plus the applied modifiers to the roll. If you roll a 4 then the result is a 4. Afterwards the value is determined by applying any modifiers to that result of 4. So, if you are allowed to reroll failed saves, but your save is a 4+ then you can not reroll a roll of 4 because it was not a fail. This is the case even if the value of the save is not a 4+ after all modifiers have been applied.

    The same is the case for hit rolls. If a rule says "on an unmodified roll of 6" then you apply the affect anytime a natural 6 is rolled. However, if a rule says "on a roll of 6+" then you have to achieve a value of 6 or higher after modifiers have been applied.
     
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  17. tom1017
    Skink

    tom1017 Member

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    Ok, now I think I get it ^.^
    Cheers !
     
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