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7th Ed. New Lizardman FAQ is out!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by snowywlf, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. snowywlf
    Cold One

    snowywlf New Member

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  2. Enigma
    Saurus

    Enigma New Member

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    Wonderful!

    Still feels a bit weird that the horned one gets turned into an "ordinary" cold one :S
    The magical impact hits and terradon rock-dropping was nice!
     
  3. hellbreaker
    Troglodon

    hellbreaker New Member

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    Ah, finally. ^^

    But I read the FaQs composed here first... Asrodrig you rock!

    I like how they answered the EoTG...
    Cheers!
     
  4. WheelR
    Chameleon Skink

    WheelR New Member

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    Sadly.. only that is left of Razordons is their fancy looks.. poor guys.
     
  5. blackhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    blackhawk Member

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    and the howdah weapons are warmachines :(


    but the rest seems nice :)
     
  6. Nosreme
    Saurus

    Nosreme New Member

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    I think the FAQ answered all the questions correctly. Every answer given was exactly the way I already played, so it was nice to have it official. Yes, poor Razordons got an ass whoopin. If they gave them poison shots or something, that would have helped.
     
  7. beardedgecko
    Saurus

    beardedgecko New Member

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    I think they should have given them armor piercing. that would make since wth the fluff. I mean that would go with the fluff. I think overall, things didnt go SOO badly. the giant bow is still a relatively nice selection, EOTG didnt get screwed, and blowpipes aside from not being able to S&S, still only take -2. you can still get a possible 24 shots that wound on 6's(need 6s to hit too, but eh) at least they didnt errats it to "multiple shots"
     
  8. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm possible further reduction to razordons, or just poor wording?

    Notice the use of the word unit, not razordon. So if you have 3 razordons, and one of them gets a misfire, according to this the unit does not fire. Does not make sense at all to me (though a lot of the FAQ didn't) but the way its been written.... Maybe a bit academic since either way, salamanders are now far better.
     
  9. Barotok
    Terradon

    Barotok New Member

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    That IS tricky wording. Amoungst other things, makes me think that GW wanted to make sure people aren't taking units of multiple razors as well.

    I'll agree with the fact that this FAQ also needs a FAQ to clairify the wording in some ares.
     
  10. Enigma
    Saurus

    Enigma New Member

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    I've also noticed the wording on the Razordons. I don't think they acctually meannt the entire unit. it wouldn't make any sense that way (even by GW standards)

    How are you quys going to play it? I'm probably going to play it as if only the razordon who got the misfire, misfires. Although I'm probably going to decide it togheter with my opponent.
     
  11. hellbreaker
    Troglodon

    hellbreaker New Member

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    I won't play them at all... Just too risky and with my opponents they would never agree with common sense...
    (My regular opponent is a powergamer... I can't even use an EoTG thou I slap a skink priest on a regular 6th ed steg! :jawdrop:
    That is what it is... Don't deny it!)

    And well... After being debating for razordons when I had the chance I've just ropped it and gone for sallies... Still hate the models thou. :depressed:

    Cheers!
     
  12. Alesh
    Skink

    Alesh New Member

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    The bad thing is that two of the Cupped Hands answers contradict each other. Do you pass the miscast before or after passing it on? BEFORE. Ok, can they use army specific miscast tables? YES. So if I have to roll on my miscast table to transfer it over, how do we end up rolling on theirs? ......
     
  13. hellbreaker
    Troglodon

    hellbreaker New Member

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    That's quite obvious for me... First you pass it over... Then you roll on their table...
    IoW... They roll...

    Cheers!
     
  14. Barotok
    Terradon

    Barotok New Member

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    I don't see myself fielding a unit of more than one Razordon ever considering their rules. That is to say that I choose to field a Razordon in the first place.
     
  15. WheelR
    Chameleon Skink

    WheelR New Member

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    A Unit is a unit.. If they didn't mean it that way.. Opponents are gonna read and use it that way. I guess you have to see it like.. The Razordon misfires shooting all his spikes in random directions..Other Razordons/Skinks have to dodge them and are not able to focus on shooting anymore.(Thats why you kill D3 skinks as well)

    I wanted to buy 2 Razordons because I like the way they look.. But after this I think I end up not buying them after all. No use buying them if I can't even field them for fun.. And I still have to paint my other models as well.. I need someone to paint my army while I can play other games.. and start buying O&G. T_T
     
  16. DonkeyHotep
    Temple Guard

    DonkeyHotep New Member

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    I have no idea what you guys are getting at with these razordons. FAQ says:

    If you roll a misfire on either of the dice, no
    shots are fired and the unit loses D3 Skinks. If
    both roll a misfire, no shots are fired and the
    unit loses 2D3 Skinks instead.

    Meaning, (by my reckoning) if the two dice you roll for that razordon are misfires then it fails to fire and kills 2d3 skinks 'FROM IT'S UNIT'. If it rolls a misfire on one dice then it doesn't fire and it eats 1d3 'FROM IT'S UNIT'. It never says anything about "the entire unit failing to fire if one of them rolls a misfire". It's only reference to the unit is in it's casualties inflicted.

    On an Aside, there's really only one solution to the problem of "I play friendly games with power gamers" and that is that you don't play friendly games with them. They won't change, and you won't enjoy a game. If they are your friends, and won't cut you any slack, consider ending the friendship, true power gaming is THAT BAD, and a sign that they have deep seated psychological inferiority or over-competitiveness issues. (In tournament play all is fair though, and you'd be wrong not to power game)
     
  17. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't say from ITS unit though. It says from THE unit. If you take a pack of 3 razordons (and 9 handlers) then that is the unit. It is a unit of 3 razors. If it says the unit doesn't fire, well the unit is all 3 of them... It could have easily said 'the razordon doesn't fire' which would have made sense, but unfortunately it doesn't.

    I agree with hellbreaker, I simply won't use razordons. Nice idea and cool models, but definitely not worth taking. I can't agree on the Cupped Hands though, what you say directly contradicts what the FAQ says. It says first you roll the miscast, then you pass it over.

    It does contradict itself, and I guess you would have to work out some way to handle it with your opponent. Either roll again on their table after transfering it (much the same as transfering it first since the first roll will be ignored anyway) or just don't use their table. I mean, the Ogre table (and possibly O&G) only have 6 results, and the FAQ says all rolls of 5-6 are still ignored and not transfered no mater what, plus you can't roll a 1 on 2 dice so the only things that would effect them would be if you rolled a 2-4 on 2 dice on your initial roll, which seems quite stupid.
     
  18. Dalkarius
    Ripperdactil

    Dalkarius New Member

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    I think that's taking what they said out of context. It seemed quite clear to mean that the remark about the 5-6 ONLY refers to the one on the regular miscast table, because it would've allowed the slann to cast another spell, which would be crazy.
     
  19. DonkeyHotep
    Temple Guard

    DonkeyHotep New Member

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    Strewart don't make stuff up. It in no way says that THE UNIT does not fire. It also doesn't say that that razordon doesn't fire either, it just says rather blankly "no shots or fire.

    What it does say however is....

    If you roll a misfire on either of the dice, no
    shots are fired and the unit loses D3 Skinks. If
    both roll a misfire, no shots are fired and the
    unit loses 2D3 Skinks instead.

    Which becomes more clear when you read:

    What happens if a Razordon stands and
    shoots and both artillery dice roll a Misfire?
    Are 2D3 Skinks eaten? And if only one artillery
    dice rolls a Misfire? Do we have 1D3 Skinks
    eaten and still a number of shots given by the
    other dice?


    If "a razordon" misfires, do we have a number of shots given by the other dice?

    Answer: no shots are fired.


    The question specifically references "a razordon", I.E. a singular, non-plural razordon. Leading to two potential conclusions

    1. The F.A.Q. doesn't have anything to do with units with multiple Razordons since the question itself only mentions "a razordon".
    2. The razordons are rolled for individually to determine how many total shots each contributes, if any, with "a razordon" having the "no shots are fired" rule applied to it, and how many individual skinks each one would kill, if any, and the effects tallied up and resolved afterwards.



    Note that that doesn't say, "no shots are fired, and if any WERE fired previously, discount those, and discount any potential future shots that other razordons in the unit may fire". It also doesn't say, "if any razordon misfires, they all fire no shots. "

    This still weakens the razordon over the idea that it can misfire and still fire pews, but isn't as shit-tastically worthless as the idea that if any of the six razordon dice are misfires then you discount them all and cry. Take a razordon or something, they are balanced, to my knowledge G.W. hasn't printed anything that's not balanced.

    I would also like to point out the differences in language between the countries of Australia and England, people will point out that in English R.A.W., they tend towards the idea that if it isn't stated as specifically forbidden it isn't stated at all and it's up to your judge/judgement.

    At the very least, I've given you a very plausible argument in favor of the razordon not sucking totally. Use it with your opponents, talk with your judge, and they'll likely see things your way. The best way to deal with it is the appeal to reason, jut ask, "what sense would it make that a larger group of razordons is actually worse then just one?".
     
  20. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    How am I taking this out of context?

    Donkeyhotep, that is a good point that the question only asks about a razordon not a unit. I like that reasoning and you are right it should be enough to argue against the people that will claim otherwise with the word unit mentioned. Looking at the full question and answer in context and the use of the word unit, would you say it seems like they used the word unit to mean that a single razordon (misfiring twice) can kill more than his own 3 skinks? That would make sense as to the use of the word unit, I just couldn't see why they said unit rather than razordon.
     

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