Funny you post a meme of Rogue One. That movie is ranked in the lower half in the same lists I've cited… and yet it's by far my favorite when i think to the last years of the SW franchise.
Those lists you’ve cited are just the opinions of so-called critics and fans who honestly don’t know a good film when they see one. Rogue One wrecks Empire Strikes Back a hundred times over in my view. Better characters, better storytelling, darker atmosphere, the list goes on.
How about this? That do? Also, wouldn’t it make more sense for this debate to occur on the Rank the Star Wars Movies thread? Honestly @Paradoxical Pacifism, I’d say you just have to watch them and formulate your own opinion. My personal favourite is Rogue One, but I think that’s largely due to understanding and references gained from seeing and loving the other films. I might even hazard that my favourite piece of Star Wars media isn’t a film, but rather one of the animations - everyone’s different. In terms of viewing I would recommend watching them in release order myself, but you should do it in whatever way you feel like. Everyone has their own opinions on every Star Wars film, and you just need to find your own. (Sorry for nicking the moral high ground - I don’t mean to make you all come across as bickering peasants! Your opinions are all completely valid as always, as I know you all agree)
Correct good sir! While everyone is entitled to their opinion, objectively (based on polls, general conscious, ratings, longevity, etc. etc.) @Killer Angel is correct. Episode V is the best one of the entire series, or in second place at worst. That is not to say that it has to be everyone's favourite, but statistically it comes out on top whether you personally agree with that or not. Rogue One has better characters than Episode V?!?! Episode V has Luke, Han, Chewie, Leia (the real one), Vader, Lando, Boba Fett, R2D2 & C-3PO (beyond a cameo appearance), Obi-Wan (force ghost), YODA. Rogue One has the most forgettable cast. Most people couldn't even name those characters. Ironically the best character from Rogue One is from the OT: Vader. Personally, the only original Rogue One character that I like is K2. What ever your personal opinion on the characters may be, your statement does not hold true when looking at the objective success/impact of the characters. The characters from Episode V are still the most popular ones today. They have the greatest fan support, the greatest merchandise sales, the greatest recognition and the greatest success according to any quantitative measure we can make. Let's see how fondly the Rogue One characters will be remembered in 4 decades time. We're all entitled to our personal opinions and everyone is free to like or dislike whatever they wish, however, you should be able to take a step back from your own personal feelings and look at things objectively. I think people have great deal of difficulty when trying to separate their own subjective assessment from an objective assessment.
I had a coworker who worships at the altar of the Mouse. She goes to Disney World at least once every two years and gushes about every Disney animated movies and Pixar animated movie. I ask her what her favorite Disney/Pixar movie is and she always says the most recent one. Whenever a new movie comes out, that movie always takes first place. This is the recency effect. I believe this applies to Rogue One's fan base. In the eyes of old school Star Wars fans, Rogue One is the only recent Star Wars film that ticks all the right boxes. Rogue One is a decent movie, but in my opinion it will not stand the test of time. Also, if you find a rare person who never saw any Star Wars movie, they could probably follow and enjoy Empire Strikes Back. In fact, of all the Star Wars movies, Rogue One is probably the only Star Wars movie that cannot stand by itself (though Revenge of the Sith is iffy by that rubric).
I have to admit that the main reason why I liked Rogue One was because, after so much Star Wars media focusing on the resident magic space wizards (my exposure to the expanded universe beyond the video games is extremely limited), it was a refreshing change of pace to instead focus on the more ordinary denizens of the setting and their struggles, even if the story was a one-shot.
I’ve found something potentially paramount to this discussion that I want to share with you all - at Entertainment Earth, one of the many stores in America and Canada that sells Star Wars figures, they’re so clogged up with Rose figures that they’re considering making a Valentine’s Day deal of a bouquet of 6” Rose figures: And a bouquet of ‘short-stem Roses’ consisting of 3.75” ones: I’d like to think that this settles the debate of who’s worse out of Jar Jar and Rose (Rose) because at least Jar Jar never had this problem with his toy merchandise. Indeed Jar Jar merchandise is actually pretty rare because of the majority’s reaction to him and often sells quickly. But will the scheme work? Spoiler: My opinion on whether the scheme will work Not a chance.
Jar Jar was ultimately an unsuccessful character, but his inclusion in the franchise was made with good story intentions. Rose's inclusion was purely politically driven. So at the very least, that is a huge advantage in favor of Jar Jar. As for the dozen Roses thing, that is funny. They might sell a few as gag gifts, but it reeks of desperation. I'm happy to see Disney's forced political agenda backfire on them and hurt their bottom line.
I disagree, I believe she was focus group driven. Compared to Admiral Hodo and L3-37, Rose is no more political than every other recent female character in Star Wars. The director(s), writer(s), and producer(s) needed a love story. Rey is a perfect goddess, so no man is good enough for her. She is not going to hook up with a woman either. As progressive as Disney pretends to be, they are too beholden to Victorian principles to have a main character not be hetereonormative. The powers that be decided the bad guys must remain one dimensional, so they cannot have love interests. Most of the other characters are too old or too alien (literally) to have a romantic subplot that appeals to a lowest common denominator audience. Finn is the literally the only character that can have a love interest. Going back to the Rey thing, I also suspect Disney was afraid to have a black man-white female interracial couple. Black-white, interracial couples are very rare in movies unless the ENTIRE MOVIE is based around the coupling. People have joked that Finn and Poe are romantically interested in each other, but Disney is too skittish to try that which is too bad because I think they had more chemistry than any two characters in the new Star Wars movies and Disney could have done something bold and progressive for real. But Disney had to shoehorn a human female romantic interest for Finn, and because Kathleen Kennedy is against female characters with any real depth, we got Rose. And the whole Rose-Finn thing feels like an afterthought tacked on to the triology unlike something that was built into the story like Han-Leia or Anakin-Padme.
Those two characters are also completely politically driven, so that just makes my point. Her inclusion was politically driven, the fact that other characters also fall into that category changes nothing. Jar Jar on the other hand (as much as I hate him) does not suffer from any political meddling.