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Tutorial Revised Kroxigor Tactica

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Scalenex, Nov 15, 2014.

  1. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Kroxigor Tactica


    Strengths: Kroxigor hit at Strength 7, move at a speed of 6 and can cross over swamps, lakes, and rivers freely. Speed and offensive power is nice. They also have a nice Strength 5 Stomp.

    Weaknesses: Kroxigor are fairly brittle for their size with only Toughness 4 and a 4+ Armor save. Coupled with ASL, this means they can’t take a sustained beating unless they are fighting Strength 3 foes. The WS 3 means they take a lot of hits from most enemies.


    Kroxigor Fundamentals


    I’ve fielded at least four Kroxigor in nearly all my lists for about a year. I boiled down Kroxigor to one sentence. The bigger the enemy model is, the better Kroxigor will do.

    (Exception, Lord level daemon characters)

    Pretty much every time Kroxigor fight infantry they die. Don’t put too much faith in the almighty Stomps. Infantry just has too many bodies to send at you, and your Strength 7 attacks will probably be crazy overkill. If Kroxigor fight Core infantry they die slowly and are ground down by cheap steadfast troops (or endlessly tarpitted if fighting something like Skaven Slaves or Zombies). If they fight elite infantry they get chopped up with Strength 4+ hits before they can even swing back.

    Against cavalry, Kroxigor still usually lose against a unit with roughly the same points value, but the winning cavalry unit typically emerges in bad shape. Against monstrous Cavalry or other Monstrous Infantry the fights are about even, though Kroxigor suffer from not being able to take Standards or Musicians.

    Against Monsters, Kroxigor dominate. I’ve seen Kroxigor reduce Chimera, Treemen, Terrogheists, Hell Cannons and similar baddies to tiny splinters. Typically the Monster is lucky if it can do more than kill one Kroxigor. Most Monsters' offense relies on their Thunderstomp which they don’t get against Kroxigor. Most Monster’s defense depends on their high Toughness which Strength 7 is usually sufficient to deal with, that’s also a whopping four point armor save penalty, so even a Steam Tank will feel the hurt.

    With this knowledge that Kroxigor have a very specific niche on what they should and should not be fighting, I recommend that you deploy them last or close to last so you can try to match them with their preferred targets and avoid infantry. Try to use water features to your advantage. Whether the Kroxigor is near a juicy target or a big scary block of infantry, you want a water body between them and your Kroxigor if you can. If you opponent has a lot more drops than you, your ideal situation is to have a river cutting across the short end of the table. If you deploy your Kroxigor on the river they can move across to the left or right easily as needed and most opponents can’t.


    Unit Support: If you can get Kroxigor in combat with enemy Monsters, they don’t need support. If you can’t point your Kroxigor at the enemy heavies, put them on the flank of a big block of Saurus or Temple Guard. Kroxigor will die alone against most small things, but if you have a big block of friendly infantry bodies, your Kroxigor’s strength and Stomps can positively contribute in an infantry slugfest. The M6 paired with Aquatic means they are mobile enough to flank things with a minimum of trouble.

    If you send your Kroxigor against Monstrous Infantry, they don’t need backup as they will probably inflict as much damage as they receive (but backup is still nice). They do need a general or BSB nearby since they are likely to lose CR by a point or two due to not having any command crew.

    If you send Kroxigor against Monstrous Cavalry, they probably could use some backup, but make sure it’s tough backup. A block of Saurus or Cohort Skinks is just going to bleed combat resolution, but a Stegadon will help wound the enemy.

    If you are playing with a Troglodon, you have an extra incentive to keep your Kroxigor near your Sauri units. This will let you buff several nearby combats (or one big combat) with one roar.


    Magic: If you can get Kroxigors engaged with big monsters, it’s probably a waste of power dice to buff them. Use buffs on Kroxigor if they are in a subpar matchup. WS3 is their true Achilles heel. Any spell to give bonuses to hit or boosted WS is good (or hexes that hit the enemy in those traits). Boosting Kroxigor Strength is usually redundant. If you can’t buff/hex WS you want to either boost the Kroxigor’s Toughness or hex the enemy’s Strength.

    Fortunately the two most popular Slann builds work well with Kroxigor. WD Slann have Miasma and Iceshard Blizzard to hex or penalize enemy WS. Earthblood can also heal a few Kroxigor wounds occasionally with the Lifebloom lore attribute if your Kroxigor are somewhat near your Temple Guard bunker.

    High Magic Slann have Hand of Glory to boost WS and Walk Between Worlds to try to set up an ideal Kroxigor matchup (or flee from a bad matchup). You also have the opportunity to swap in for the aforementioned useful signature spells. As for BRB lores, Shadow and Light synergize best with Kroxigor. Life isn’t too bad either.

    While we are on the subject of magic, let’s talk about enemy magic: Purple Sun bad.


    Shooting: By which I mean the enemy’s shooting. I’ve tried using bodies of water for soft cover and I’ve tried screening units of Skinks, but that doesn't work too well. The best solution I’ve seen to avoid Kroxigor getting shot to pieces is to make the units larger, so they can afford to lose a model or two and remain strong. Generally speaking, when I have a built in “crumple zone” in my Kroxigor to absorb shooting losses, my opponents don’t even bother to shoot at my Kroxigor at all.


    Unit Sizes

    Minimum 3 Kroxigor: I don’t like this. Between enemy shooting and the fact that they are ASL, you are lucky if you can have two Kroxigor able to swing their axes on the first round of close combat. If you are fielding 3 Kroxigor, they better be surrounded by Skinks.

    4-5 Kroxigor: I like this size. Rank bonuses will probably not matter, so I field them as 2x2 squares. That’s still all your attacks. If you are fighting crappy infantry, you’ll want to adjust to three wide for that extra Stomp, but generally a small frontage is best. This makes it a lot easier to one-two punch enemies with Saurus/Kroxigor combos. A fifth Kroxigor is probably unnecessary, but there are worse things to spend your points on.

    6-8 Kroxigor: This gives you two full ranks of Monstrous Infantry. I’ve done okay with units of six, but points permitting, I like units of 7 or 8. This gives you a small crumple zone against shooting and close combat letting you fight at your full attacks even after taking a modest beating.

    9-17 Kroxigor: I’ve played 9 Kroxigor a few times. I didn’t like it. I can’t imagine liking it better with 10, 11, or 12. Units in this range have a prohibitively expensive “crumple zone” for a unit deployed three wide. If you deploy wider, you are almost guaranteeing that your Kroxigor will get bogged down by infantry. You might actually beat infantry with a unit like this, but your points cost will be so much higher than the enemy it won’t feel like winning. I’d rather field two reasonably sized blocks of Kroxigor than one block this size.

    18+ Kroxigor: I will admit that I haven’t tried this yet, but I can see the appeal. This allows you to field a full horde of Monstrous Infantry with a theoretical 55 attacks (plus a lot of PF attacks). Awfully expensive and unwieldy. If you have a floating Slann hiding behind them, you can theoretically steamroller any opposition with the right buffs, but this unit strikes me as a bit gimmicky. Tactically speaking, I’d rather field three reasonably sized blocks of Kroxigor than this.


    Multiple Units: I have yet to try three Kroxigor blocks. I have done two blocks a few times, but I have better luck with one block. If you want two blocks of Kroxigor I’d recommend 2x2 squares to keep the footprints small. When I field two blocks of 6-7 Kroxigor, the Kroxigor tend to compete for table space with my Saurus blocks and someone has to deploy behind someone else which does not let you project your strength very well.

    Skink Clouds are not my style, but I think multiple Kroxigor larger blocks would do well in a Skirmisher /Traditional Army hybrid. If all your Core is Skink Skirmishers, there are no Saurus Warriors to get in the way of your Kroxigor or visa versa. Still you need to be very good at redirection or your Kroxigor will get bogged down fighting hated infantry, and they won’t be able to call on Saurus reinforcements.

    For a less extreme way of accommodating multiple Kroxigor units, you can run your Slann solo. With no Temple Guard that’s one less block to get in the way (and more Special points to spend on additional Kroxigor).


    Kroxigor Ancients: You want them. Ten points is cheap for a Strength 7 PF attack. You don’t want to be fighting enemy infantry if you can help it, but at least having a reasonable chance of killing a character in an underdog challenge is a nice consolation prize to having a subpar matchup.


    Cowboy Buddies?: Lots of Orc and Goblin players put an Orc Big Boss on a Boar tacked on to the side of their Troll units for both more hitting power and the Ld. We could in theory do the same with Saurus Cowboys and Kroxigor, but I would not recommend it. Kroxigor are not subject to Stupidity so they don’t need the extra point of Ld all that bad (and the Cold One actually brings Stupidity). Due to non-compatible bases, your Cowboy can’t make way so a positioning error well cost you if he’s stuck out of combat.

    As much as Kroxigor hate light targets, they really hate ethereal enemies generating virtually zero static CR. A Cowboy buddy can provide magical attacks in this scenario. That would be the only time I would combine Kroxigor and Saurus characters in a big unit, but in most cases a solo Saurus character on a Cold One should be able to engage these nasty ethereals without a unit.

    One idea I came across in an unrelated thread is giving a Crown of Command to a Saurus Cowboy and sticking him with a Kroxigor unit, thus making the Kroxigor Stubborn. It also makes the Kroxigor subject to Stupidity so you want to make sure you keep your Slann nearby if you decide to try that unorthodox tactic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    airjamy likes this.
  2. Korhedron
    Saurus

    Korhedron Member

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    As always, this is a good post. Tacticas are valuable, particularly when they concern themselves with units I don't often use. I've never fielded krox in a unit, but now I kinda want to try 2x2 blocks. Thanks!
     
  3. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    nice update Nex.

    Dont remember if I shared it once already, but here goes (again):

    Ive been experimenting a lot with krox and have created a formation and tactic I call "Croc-jaws"

    Templeguards with Slann
    6-7 Krox - Close to TG's Left
    6-7 Krox - Close to TG's Right

    Full skink core.

    The skinks are supposed to thin out out all the "non-targets" that you describe:

    - Infantry that would be overkill for S7
    - potential blockers and chaff
    - Other "dont want my krox to go there" targets.

    They can also create a bottleneck for your 3 main blocks to slip through towards the target.
    this means: WIN the chaff war.

    The Templeguard will be in front with the kroxes 1 or 2 inches behind on on each side.
    They then push forward, actually wanting to TAKE the charge.
    When the enemy charges they will meet a NEAR unbreakable, unit that hopefully wont go anywhere.
    Then when it becomes your turn: close the Jaw.
    your Krox will most likely auto-charge each flank, and since its your magic phase you should be able to get a buff / debuff off to support.

    As you only get to do this ONCE a game, you should REALLY consider what block you choose to close on and then go for it.
    Ive found that most deathstars will get crushed, as the characters cant put all their attacks on the krox, but instead "waste" them on the templeguard, who IS PROTECTED BY MAGIC! <-- Make sure of this.

    For Lore-choice I've went with WD so far, but I have been thinking that lore of light might be an option also do to all the bubble spells that REALLY do something for the krox and TG alike.

    The main weakness isnt a new one: If a miscasts ravages your TG's before they get to do their job you pretty much lost, as the enemy deathstar WILL kill the remains and putting the hurt to your slann.

    The other weakness is that there isn't points for that much else....which means that the list lacks flexibility.
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  4. Ulodwor
    Skink

    Ulodwor New Member

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    Good read! I agree the Ancient is useful.

    While it's more expensive with the same defensive stats and might seem more squishy for the point cost there is also the occasional overkill it will attract, allowing it to absorb additional wounds instead of the unit.

    Also I wonder, will the opponent having to split their attacks between the Ancient and regular Kroxigors typically mean one of your Kroxigors will live a bit longer, to attack once more? In a 2x2 setup with 50/50 frontage split between Ancient and regulars it seems it could make a difference?
     
  5. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    An ancient kroxigor is ALWAYS worth in my opinion.
    that extra S7 (with an even bigger chance for PF) has done wonders for me in the past.

    And as you say: the wounds divided can also make a difference.
    In any case, the more decisions you force your opponent to make the bigger the risk of him choosing wrong.
     
  6. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Hmm.. I like the TG bunker + nearby kroxies. I also think that WD will very much be a good help here. We could obviously take other more buff oriented lores, but with WD we are guaranteed to have 4 augment/hex spells, something which the kroxigors certainly can use.

    One downside, I suppose, is that these two units are somewhat expensive so you'll have to cut some corners to make it happen, I suppose (?).

    Personally I'd love to have 8 kroxies with ancient and 30 guards with FC. That'll be 860pts without any magic banner. I can work at 2500pts, but there won't be many points for anything else in the special and rare section.
     
  7. Bloodzerker
    Skink

    Bloodzerker New Member

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    i have been wondering this for a long time now, does fielding kroxigors inside a unit of skinks cohort count towards special or core. The book says that kroxigors can be taken as an 'upgrade'.
     
  8. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Kroxigor in a Skink Cohort are part of your Core points.
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    What formation would you play 7-8 Kroxigors? Would you go 4 wide to try to maximize attacks, or 3 wide for a boost in maneuverability? At first I was in favour of 4x2 formation which may be better if you can minimize losses and utilize all your attacks, but once you lose 2 kroxigor, you're better off with a 3-wide unit.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. laribold
    Cold One

    laribold Active Member

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    I would say it depends on what you are intending to do with such a big unit.

    If you are taking the 7th and 8th Krox merely to act as a 'crumple zone', leaving you with 6 Krox to attack back, then then 3x3x2 is probably your answer. I'd go for this if you are up against an enemy with reasonable BS shooting, and who are likely to try and whittle the Krox down. Except cannons. 3x3x2 is a nice juicy shot for any army with cannons, so I'd be wary of it here.

    If however, you are up against an enemy with little or no ranged threat (or have cannons, see above) then 4x2 will do just fine.

    I also think you can probably use the 3x3x2 formation more as a strong flanking force, due to it being a bit more manoueverable (but not by much! Make sure you deploy well as with no musician you can easily end up getting stuck or chasing shadows for much of the game if you deploy badly).

    I'd say 4x2 also needs to be more centrally placed in your army, giving a big hard-hitting centre that you can either aggressively push forward and dictate the battle, or hold back for countercharging.

    Just a few thoughts based on my experience so far.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER and Scalenex like this.
  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Nice write up laribold. I think you're right that context seems to be the key. Both formations have their strengths and weaknesses. I think with 7 kroxigor, a 3 wide unit (assuming no cannons on the board) will be better as you are almost assured to lose a kroxigor in combat before you strike. With 8 Krox, it really comes down to the situational factors as you describe.

    That does leave me in a bit of pickle since I was looking to make them a movement tray. I guess I'll go with a 3x3 movement tray since I can always steal my WoC troll 4x2 tray if need be.
     

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