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Discussion in 'Salamanders Discussion' started by Lord Salamis, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Lord Salamis
    Jungle Swarm

    Lord Salamis New Member

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    Hi people! I played Warhammer, but it kind of went down hill a bit. And now I'm thinking of playing KoW, and the army I really want are Salamanders (they're just so cool!), could anyone tell me what they know about them please? Any help is appreciated :)
    BAE, The Penguin and Crowsfoot like this.
  2. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    I used to play KOW, Salamanders always felt under powered but you need the experts to come in and help @BAE @Itepixcauh @The Penguin among others will have a lot more info for you, in fact if you look in the Salamanders section you might find what you need.

    The Penguin likes this.
  3. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Greetings I play KoW quite intensively and Salamanders is a new army for me, but has already became one of the most favorite ones. ) :)
    So I shall be most glad to help you. )

    You are too kind, calling me an expert. ) I am an amateur compared to some of the awesome guys out there who play KoW professionally. ) :)
  4. BAE

    BAE Well-Known Member

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    KoW is my main game, Salamanders are my only army, and I've had some limited success, but @Crowsfoot 's 'expert' comment may be pushing it!

    I played WHFB for years when I was younger and I have to say I am so, so much more fun playing KoW so I don't think you'll regret getting into it. Just bear in mind that it is a different game, so some of the mechanics are quite different and magic is significantly toned down. Some complain that this 'simplification' makes the game too easy, but by that logic chess is the easiest game in the world :confused:! KoW is easy to pick up, cracking fun to play, and hard to master, and brings proper rank and file gaming back to the forefront.

    In terms of Salamanders specifically, the models have only been released for one unit (Salamander Primes / Unbloodeds) and one hero (Artakl, a Ghekkotah Clutch Warden). However, the full army will be released early 2018, so not long to wait! Still, Mantic are super chill and allow players to use models from other manufacturers, even at their official tournaments. Even I was surprised by how far this 'chilled' approach went when I saw two huge games of Warhammer 40K being played by punters at Mantic's HQ! There is a post on here somewhere with model ideas for each of the Salamander units, as well as a number of threads with pictures of people's armies, so you can get ideas from them as well.

    The big 'difference' between Lizardmen and Salamanders is that Salamanders incorporate lots of fire as they live around 3 volcanoes called 'The Three Kings'. They have options for Fire Elementals, Greater Fire Elementals, and a good number of the units (and the Mage-Priests) shoot fire. This gives rise to two main build patterns that I have seen:

    1. Big Lizards: Ankylodons & Ancients on Rhinosaurs - the first doesn't die, the second doesn't let anyone live. Very smash face-y.
    2. Fire: Lots of Fire Elemental Hordes, maybe a Greater Fire Elemental, and multiple Mage-Priests with Surge. This is the more tricksy list as once you've mastered surge shenanigry you can get super tricksy with them.

    Any other questions, ask away and people will help! The main thing is to get some games and see what you think.
    The Penguin and Crowsfoot like this.
  5. Negator

    Negator Member

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    distinctly 3rd tier
    Lord-Marcus and The Penguin like this.
  6. Jack Trowell
    Cold One

    Jack Trowell Active Member

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    When talking about "tier" or "power level", let's note that the difference between the best and worst armies in KoW is less than what used to be the ├╣internal* difference between two lists of the same army in Warhammer.

    In short, you can be successful with a Salamander army, it's just that it can take some finesse to do at high level of play.

    One reason is that the Salamanders have a lots of "jack of all trades" units able to do many things, like the fire drake (both a decent medium monster, and a decent firebreather) and the fact that of course those abilities are not free.

    This means that if/when you use your fire drake as fire support, you are not using his melee potential, and if you use it in melee, you are wasting his powerful breath attack.

    Usually in KoW most players prefer to use specialist units to do their optimal job, as it's easier to manage, that's part of what make Salamander armies seems "weaker" as the same tactic does not work as well with them

    In theory however, if you manage to use your units in a way that exploit their multiple strengths, then they can be effective.

    To be fair, there are also a few units that are slightly overcosted, even taking into account the previous point, but this doesn't prevent them to still be useful, there is no unit that is useless in KoW like there were in Warhammer.

    About this point, note that the Ghekkotah Warriors Horde is supposed to have 40 attacks and not 30) (double the regiment attacks), this has been acknoledges as an error by a member of the Rules Comitee and should be put in official erratas if not already added since last time I checked.

    In tournaments this won't pass until the errata is official unless the organiser recognise it, but in friendly games you can use 40 attacks for the horde, just explain it to your opponent.

    Not that it makes the unit overpowered, they still have Me5+ and a very low def, but they are cheap enough for a horde that you don't lose to much when they die, while the 40 attacks can still make any opponnent hesistate.

    Tip : add to a horde the hammer of inevitable force (new artefact added in the Clash of Kings supplement, make the unit always wound in melee on 4+ ignoring the target defense) and you will have a glass hammer unit that your opponent won't like to engage with his elite units and monsters.

    40 attacks hitting on 5+ so average of 13.33 hits, always wound on 4+ with the artefact, so 6.66 wounds on average on *anything*, and then you have vicious so you reroll 1s to wound for an average total of 7.77 wounds if my math is correct.

    It's not as extreme as what some very elite units can do, but it is still decent and the fact that you can do this on average on anything even big tough units with def 5+ or 6+ while your own unit cost only 185 points (magic artefact included) means that you are very point effective.

    Of course, you will have to screen this unit, else they will be focused upon with shooting or combo charged and killed before they get the chance to attack, just dont put them in front of your line where a pair of knight regiments will be able to charge them ;)
    The Penguin likes this.
  7. Tecuani

    Tecuani Member

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    My own experience of the army is that Salamanders are strong at short range shooting and melee, but very limited at long range and somewhat average in manouvrability due to the lack of nimble units.
    It also relies a bit more than other armies on coordinating your units since while high levels of CS allow them to easily wound most targets few units have the large numbers of attacks or Me value to be cutting through units by themselves, so they work best with two units attacking at once, or a second unit waiting in reserve. Individuals are good for this since their crazy manouvrability lets them easily add their attacks where you want. This is even more true of Salamander missile units, which while good value but only average 2-4 wounds at most. Spread your ranged attacks across several units, and most of the time none of them will be particularly bothered, but concentrate them on one important or vulnerable(ideally both!) unit and you tend to see better results. Fortunately the nature of Salamander ranged attacks make them quite easy to concentrate, since breath weapons and fireball can move and shoot without penalty, Komodons can shoot over infantry without penalty, and Lekilodons have a high enough range value to be effective even with to-hit penalties. Again, individuals like the mage-priest, a very good value fireball caster, help to focus a sufficient volume of fire.
  8. Lord-Marcus

    Lord-Marcus Well-Known Member

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    I play armies that I like to paint. Lizard people generally appeal to me.

    My favorite thing about Salamanders is that you can mix and match Miniatures from various ranges, as long as they are unified by paint scheme and separated into various units, and they look fine. More importantly, they are canonically accepted

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