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7th Ed. Sarts 2250 pts Lizzard list (Be gentle haha)

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Army Lists' started by Sart, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    This pretty well sums it up for me as well, it comes down to points and the army feeling too small. Were I not running a Carnosaur (which is still a stretch for me, thinking about its cost), I might consider a second steg with the chief/lance.

    "From other hand the skink-kroxigors unit is reall cool but u dont have tactical avadage..."

    Two of the mixed units could beat a stegadon fairly easily. Setup the typical wedge formation, the two blocks near each other facing inward. Steg charges one block, which flees, causing a failed charge. Other block flanks, krox goes after rider while poison goes to the steg. Two ranks and outnumber and whatever wounds caused now need to be overcome by the steg and crew. Meanwhile the other mixed unit is free to rally and reform. If the steg decides not to charge, he can be charged by the mixed blocks who have the same charge distance... and the steg can't flee as he is immune to psychology. Alternatively you could just keep pelting the steg with 11 poisoned javelins from each unit over and over again, fleeing if it ever gets to charge.

    A 124 point block that has movement 6, 3 ranks, 6 poison attacks, and 3 str 6 attacks, the ability to toss 5 poisoned javelins, and doesn't need to test for fear is lacking some things, but tactical advantage is not one of them. It is a less direct combat style that involves more baiting and fleeing, but the blocks are still solid enough to threaten flanks.
     
  2. CylonDorado
    Skink

    CylonDorado New Member

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    Not to mention the big kroxies are just plain cool :D. It's seems pretty nice to me that they could always either charge or throw javalins because they have the same range. When I put a list together I always like to add a lot of units that are really good at the one thing they do, and then a few uints that are ok at a few different things. That seems only natural for Lizardmen, since Saurus can't shoot, and Skinks arn't great for melee. But the mixed kroxigor squad seems to fit perfectly.
     
  3. Laskoulas7
    Skink

    Laskoulas7 New Member

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    The poison attacks are for shooting only not for CC
    Is just diforent game style i accept it and i respect it , this is one avadage the new book offers , several armie lists totaly diforent among them for all tastes ...
    I understant ur point of view :) I use my 2 stegas like Panzers and EoG as King Tiger :p

    and dont forget Moooo ! :p
     
  4. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    Doh, I think I was mixed up with VotFF or something. Poisoned melee attack skinks would be cool. There are definitely many varieties of lists available with the new Lizardmen, even amongst the close combat builds.
     
  5. anton
    Skink

    anton New Member

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    Sorry but i cant approve of your list.

    I can see how you can do well with it if your experienced but the thing is you can make more power full lists with Lizardmen. The fact is any good player can make any list work, after all you are balancing everything against 2250. I just see alot of weakness in your list that i would exploit. Meaning if im elvs im going to sit back and bolt thrower your stegadon and make you come to me then after i finish it off il move unto other units one by one. Miss Direct your Cold One, and prob your Lord and maybe your hero. But then again you do have Teradons. These guys are going to be hard to deal with this and is really the only problem in your army that i might not be able to handle, wait what am i talking about if your stegadon is dead all i have to do is magic them. But enough theory hammering. I would be intrested to read a battle report against a better army then wood elfs. The wood elf player seemed to not play right according to what you said, and then lets remember wood elfs are one of the hardest armys to play and your going against the flavor of the month.
    According to what you said the wood elf player might not have been the best, any wood elf that runs BOL and Arcane bodkins needs to be shot, this lord never pays for his points. I would rather run a wood elf dragon then BOL+Arcane.
     
  6. Sart
    Saurus

    Sart New Member

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    Well I dont need your approval for one :)
    I played another game Yesterday vs a 8 PD 1 Bound 2x Boltthrower 2x White Lion unit a Dragon Prince cav unit and 2x Lion chariot list with 2x Spear blocks for the mages to Hide in + Lord on Griffon.

    The game ended with a 11-9 victory to me.

    As I have already stated the 2 worst match ups of this list are dwarves and High Elves.
    The shooting as I suspected did nothing value The 5+ ward from the EOTG curtailed that. The real pain came from the white Lions They pretty much chewed Through everything except the Saurus Blocks and Kroxigor (Who he refused to engage and that suited me fine it gave me freedom of movement to push up and pressure his mages). The winning margin would have been alot bigger if the dice haddnt been so horribly stacked in his favor. LOL

    I rolled 5 Miscasts all resulting in giving him a free spell and doing 1 wound to my wizard. He in turn rolled 6 IF 2d6 strength 4 spells and both my Salamanders managed to Misfire everyturn LOL Still with all that was going wrong alot was going right. I managed to forest hop the Terradons untouched to deal with the Bolt throwers then they dropped their Rocks on the remnants of a fleeing spear block (EOTG went off twice panicing it) and dropped it below 25%.

    The chariots diddnt bother me nor did the big flying monster the only thing that really caused me concern was the white lions and if my salamanders had fired up they would have been much easier to deal with.

    You think the BOL Bodkin arrow guy isnt worth his points and you would rather take a dragon?? That says alot about you as a player right there (nothing negative just by your prefference in character choice it tells me everything I need to know on how you play) I actuially played him twice first game the Bodkin arrow boy paid for his points second time he paid for his points twice over by finishing off my generals Saurus unit and causing them to panic on the last turn. Burning Blade of Chotec is a treeman killer (Killed the treeman in one round of comat and he charged hehe )

    The only Change comming out of the testing games so far is I am dropping 1 Kroxigor Unit and taking 1 unit of x4 and taking 2x Units of x3 Terradons. (The extra Unit of Kroxigor have been unneeded in the last 10 or so games as my game plan starts to really gain shape with the list. )

    Thanks for the Comments although some of them make very little sense :)
     
  7. anton
    Skink

    anton New Member

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    This imply that i would rather run a dragon lord rather then the machine gun lord. For the points invested a dragon lord for the wood elfs is the worst thing you could take.

    At this point in time for a high elf, lizards are one of the harder armys for them to face.

    I never seen a High elf player take a griffin, i always see teclis, terrion or a guy on a star dragon. Was playing a high elf player a few days ago he had this.

    Lord on Dragon, Star Lance and some armor.
    Fire mage on a dragon.
    Units of 15 Sword Master with 2MR banner
    Units of 15 White Lions
    2 Bolt Throwers
    25 Spears
    20 Archers

    I had

    Lord with 65 point sword and +5 ward on Cold one
    Scar Vet with BSB, +2 str sword and +2 ward save on first wound on cold one
    Skink Priest with 2 scrolls
    Scar Vet sword of +1 hit and Jaguar Charm

    20 Spears CMD
    20 Sarus Mans CMD
    3x10 Skink Skirmishers
    2x3 Razordon Hunting Pack with Extra Handler
    5 Cold Ones CMD Warbanner

    Game Ended in a 20-0 i guess. All i lost was a wound on my Lord, some Cold Ones some Spears and a Razordone hunting pack. Oh and my Scar Vet failed leadership 7 against some archers with a banner, rank and hill and then failed to rally and ran off the table.

    Really this was just a list i brough together at the last minute with what i had. High Elfs are not a hard opponent for lizards. I think its one of the easier ones. I have not played Dwarfs but i dont think they would be that hard to play against. The only army i struggle with is VC with my lizards.
     
  8. Sart
    Saurus

    Sart New Member

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    You have got to be kidding right??
    Thats the kind of High Elf list your used to facing?? No wonder you get easy wins vs them LOLZ
    That list is a patheitc Monster list with a bunch of the worst choices i nthe High elf book to back em up..... You serious thats what people in your neck of the woods run??

    I would give my right testicle to face something like that LOLZ
    Sword masters in a unit that large is a joke they die easily to shooting and are worth a ton!!
    1 unit of white lions wow I wish and the character choice is a joke huge point sinks with a lousy toughness 3 elf sitting on the top.... Its no wonder you 20 - nil'd the sack droper that ran that.

    Cmon man a real High Elf list with Multiple units of strike first white Lions great magic 2 Hammers and massive points denial is going to carve up your list without breaking a sweat.

    High Elves in a tournament situation in the hands of a decent player is a nightmare for Lizzards as are Dwarfs.

    Even worse if they Dump the Monster take a reaver Bow character, 3x lvl 2's 2x Bolties 1 Unit of 10 Archers some spears for the wizards to hide in (Only need a unit of x15) 2-3 units of 15 White Lions and a Grt eagle and 2x Bolties add in some Cav and you have a nightmare army for the lizards inc your list that will shred you before you even make it across the table and when you do make it to their lines they have strike first strength 6 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 2's...... Oh yeah real easy.

    I doubt you know what your speaking about as someone who has really faced a true High Elf list knows its next to impossible to 20-nil it with the lizards.

    The list you posted (High Elf one) is some janky list that looks like it was designed by a kid obssesed with dragons or some such crap.... probably played like one as well....

    You honestly think lizards are the hardest army for High Elves to face?? Seriously?? LOL What about A good Vamp list or Demons (Demons scare the s#$^t out of High Elves) I seriously Doubt lizardmen armies are even remotely one of the concerns of a good High Elf general.

    And for your information depending on the list supporting the Wood Elf dragon lord it can be extemely effective. (Seen a woodelf army led by Dragon Lord win Fortunes of War effectivly)

    Anyways I found your comments rather amusing and intresting to say the least. Rarely will you find people who play armies the same. One other thing of note I do not use Special characters and the tournament scene here in aus has only 2 tournaments where they are allowed... Pity as they are the worst choices in the book character wise and I wish more people would take them. LOL

    Intresting you mention Vamps as a hard army to face... as I think they are one of the easiest to face and havnt come close to lossing to them to date.... Face a good Dwarf list mate see how you go LOL without terradons the warmachines will rip you apart and you wont have anything left by the time you reach their Deathstar well nothing of value left LOL.

    I wanna play games where you are your opponents sound like a bunch of muppets.
     
  9. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart New Member

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    Try to refrain from insulting people and attacking others. Keep the discussion calm.

    Every area has different kinds of things that are or aren't effective, it depends a lot on the players too. I agree that the HE list looks a bit soft. 20 archers?!? I wouldn't even take 10 of them.. And the star lance is waaaay overpriced compared to a normal lance. But anyhow..

    My HE list wouldn't be too worried about LM, depending on the specific units taken. I am most worried about Skaven with their magic and any army that can throw out a hell of a lot of attacks at range, because elves die easily. I run a noble general, BSB, scroll cady, 2 units of spears, a big unit of dragon princes, reavers, phoenix guard (switch for WL sometimes), one of each chariot, an eagle and 2 bolt throwers. The list is very offensive and has a good amount of fear, which is a big boost, plus it is supported by a touch of very long range support.

    I do have to agree with anton that the new VC are very tough. The amount of spells they can throw out is crazy, you can be in combat with them and cut half their army away, leave some of their units with basically one rank, and by combat in their turn all of a sudden they are mostly back to full strength. It is crazy.
     
  10. Dreadgrass
    Ripperdactil

    Dreadgrass Member

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    Hey Sart,

    Im in AUS as well, have you found any problems with this list regarding comp scores? I've found, people tend to Boo and Hiss at that sort of amount of points going into characters.

    I have no problem whatsoever, just wondered if you got many whingers!!!
     
  11. Sart
    Saurus

    Sart New Member

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    The new Tier system in place actually makes this list just shy of getting Max Comp scores.
    The only thing that would cause a comp hit for Lizards would be more then x2 Terradons and Multiple stegs (lord knows why the stegs would cause it but they do) and more then 10 Power Dice.

    Comp scores havnt been reliant on % for about 8 Years.

    My points in characters wouldnt be so bad If I dropped EOTG.

    Yeah Sorry Anton I got a bit over passionate please dont take offense.

    I really dont think that list you played against is a good representation of what High Elves are capable of producing Strewarts list was closer to a HE list I would fear (Although lack of Magic and Multiples of the rock hard units means its not optimised).

    Mmmmm I like the responses about the list so far.
    I actually prefer for people who see the list to Underestimate its abilities that allows me to fly under the radar in both Comp and actual peformance on the table top.
     
  12. Dreadgrass
    Ripperdactil

    Dreadgrass Member

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    Cheers Sart,

    I have been out of the tourney scene for a while, last I heard comp was an opponent given score between 1 and 5, sounds like they've evened the tables a little!
     
  13. Sart
    Saurus

    Sart New Member

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    Yeah they have.
    I havnt played in almost 1.5 to 2 years in a tournament. But I have kept abreast of the how they are being run and how we as a nation of gamers are evolving with the world scene's.

    We now have a teir system based on the army book you are utilising Demons for instance are Teir 1 etc etc etc so forth and so forth. Depending on the teir of your army you can either receive bonus comp points or negative comp points. your army list is judged by a panel of judges before the tourny and your score is given at the end of the tournament. (Best system I have seen used to date) tottaly eliminates chipmunking for comp scores and buddy boosting. Also stops noobs with no clue of an armies strength or weakness slamming a balanced list for beating them 20 nil.

    Again Anton if you took offense at any of my previous words shoot me a PM and I'll Edit them out.
     
  14. wishy
    Skink

    wishy New Member

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    sup sart Damien here i like the list mate what happen to the skele vamp army lol we should have a game again some day this is what im thinking of running to convic if i can have it painted in time. i like the flying skink bsb made me think a lil but i have something similar on the scar vet. but might need to do a magic/flaming weapon instead i think.

    Slann
    +1 dice per cast, knows all spells, Only magic hurts
    Cupped Hands, Bane head, Scroll

    Skink priest lvl2
    Cloak of feathers

    Scar vet bsb warbanner
    jag charm shield,La,GW

    18 saurus FC,spears
    12 saurus muso Spear
    10 skink skirmishers blowpipes
    10 skink skirmishers blowpipes
    11 Cohort skink 1 krox muso
    11 Cohort skink 1 krox muso
    4 terradons
    4 terradons
    3 kroxi
    3 kroxi
    1 saly extra handler
    1 saly extra handle
     
  15. Sart
    Saurus

    Sart New Member

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    Damo why would you put the Jag Charm on the Saurus Bsb??
    It doesnt make sense.... I never ran the Jag Charm from the old book because it eventually will bite you in the ass (Characters tend to airswing at the worst times.) + a scar vet BSB is so tough and nasty you want him in the thick of things anyways.

    My list is more about points denial and a meat grinding and thats why I need the BSB floating around and not being tied up anywhere.

    I really dislike the slaan for its points cost it just doesnt cut the mustard anymore (Being immune to Miscasts made it a worthwhile choice in the old book but now... one bad phase can cost you big time.)

    Much prefer the reliability of an Oldone.
    (At 3 K I would deffinately take a Slaan and a Carnasaur).

    Hey can I make a suggestion I made the same change dump 1 unit of Kroxi make the other unit x4 and use the extra points to boost the second saurus to a 15 man dump a unit of Skirmishing Skinks and the 18 man saurus unit and take the BBOC on the BSB dropping the Jag Charm and give him the enchanted shield.

    Give the Skink Priest the Bane Head stick him on a EOTG and watch that nasty Character on a dragon or whatever stay the Hell away from your lines. Your list should look like this IMO (unsure of Points)


    Slann BSB warbanner
    +1 dice per cast, knows all spells, Only magic hurts
    Cupped Hands, 2x Scroll

    Skink priest lvl2
    Bane Head, Anceint Steg EOTG

    Scar vet
    Burning Blade of Chotec, enchanted shield,La,


    15 saurus muso Spear

    10 skink skirmishers blowpipes

    11 Cohort skink 1 krox muso
    11 Cohort skink 1 krox muso

    4 terradons
    4 terradons
    4 kroxi

    1 saly extra handler
    1 saly extra handle

    Now that to me seems more Balanced and Slightly Nastier.
    (Your borderline Bad comp but so was your other list at least this way your Boderline but nasty.)
    Your item setup has purpose now instead of random cool stuff....

    Have your Slaan and Scarvet in the Saurus unit (That unit will not drop to anything Short of a Miracle)

    If you have the Points Try and squeeze in a Skink Chief with Blade of Might and Cloak of Feathers. (Makes for a great assasin and Warmachine Hunter and Terradon Supporter)

    Mmmmm I like that list so Much I might actually give it a try Hahaha :p

    We should deffinately meet for a game Would love to test run against you.
     
  16. DonkeyHotep
    Temple Guard

    DonkeyHotep New Member

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    What exactly is 20-0 ings someone? What's the victory system like in Australia?
     
  17. wishy
    Skink

    wishy New Member

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    0.5-100 11/9
    101-300 12/8
    301-500 13/7
    501-700 14/6
    701-1000 15/5
    1001-1300 16/4
    1301-1600 17/3
    1601-1900 18/2
    1901-2250 19/1
    2251+ 20/0

    most are around scores like that.

    @sart one thing im trying to stay away from is a steg dunno why but when i decided to start lizzy i didn't wanna have any stegs/oldblood/coldones and a slann+eotg is pretty frowned upon at the moment even tho i want it more the the 5+ward then anything else.
     
  18. DonkeyHotep
    Temple Guard

    DonkeyHotep New Member

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    Ahh so the difference in victory points actually matters in the tournaments you play in, that makes a huge difference. Most of the tourneys in this area give a static bonus for winning, about 1/3 that for Tying, and nothing for losing. Then give one point for killing the enemy general, 3, 2 and 1 point for painting and basing. The amount by which you win is irrelevant, as long as it shows up as a marginal victory.
     

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