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AoS Seraphon 2k Competitive: Lizard Death Star! *Updated Lists with more commentary

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Joshua Horchler, Jan 9, 2017.

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Which list would you take to a tournament?

Poll closed Jan 26, 2017.
  1. List 1

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. List 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. List 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. List 4

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Hello All,
    I am a competitive 40k player who is ready to convert. I use to love building lists that stacked synergy. Below are two lists that do just that. The first is what I'm now working towards collecting. Please check out the force multipliers you can accomplish. (See info below lists)

    List 1:
    Giant Lizard "Deathstar" with Pumped up Knights
    Leaders

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur General +1 Wounds (320)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One, relic blade (100)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One, relic blade(100)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One, relic blade(100)
    Skink Star Priest (100)
    Units
    Skinks x 10 (80)
    Skinks x 10 (80)
    Ripperdactyl Riders x 6 (280)
    Saurus Knights x 5 (120)
    Saurus Knights x 5 (120)
    Saurus Knights x 5 (120)
    Battalions
    Bloodclaw Starhost (100)
    Shadowstrike Starhost (120)
    Total:2000/2000

    Bloodclaw Starhost:
    - Knights gain additional attack Jaws and Shields
    - All heroes within 20" of Oldblood can use command ability!
    Oldblood: gives all heros the ability to add 2 attacks to one weapon!
    - Scar Vets on Coldone, add +2 to their Warpick for 5 attacks and if they roll a 4 afterwards, they get to attack again for 5 more!!! :)
    - Scar Vet on Carnosaur - add +2 attacks to their Jaws for big damage
    3x Scar Vets on Coldones:
    - Able to use Savage Charge 3 TIMES!
    - Sarus units Reroll 1's for charges and hits (within 8")
    - Knights gain an additional attack with bite! (Stacks for 3 ADDITIONAL ATTACKS)
    - Fairly likely, under Old One's buff, to do 10 attacks at +3 +3, -1 rend, 2 dmg. Can't beat that for 100 points.
    StarPriest:
    - Cast Mystic Shield on Oldblood
    - Poison staff buff for knights or Carnosaurs
    Knight Unit (x5): All buffed up:
    - Don't forget about the battleshock test synergies that the knights offer.
    - 5x Lances/Blades
    - 25 Vicious Bites
    - 10 Powerful Jaws
    - reroll all hits of 1
    - average of 14 wounds (at - rend)


    The Big Dinos, Vets on Coldones and Knights, ball up and run around together. They are pretty damn fast and deadly. Ripperdactyl's are guaranteed to get into combat without being shot at and come down and to try and take out your opponents deadly shooting. Skinks use the extra movement from the formation to spread out and get in cover for objectives.

    Knights are mainly used to sway the combat numbers in your favor and when they are buffed up, they may surprise some opponents. Their damage is still pretty bad. IMO, this list's main issue is that if Old Blood goes down, your knights are stinky again and cold one's lose some of their killy-ness as well. Also this list doesn't have room for a Star-Priest, which is very powerful.

    ****List 2: (Also very interested in a build that drops the Guard to 20, the Oldblood to a Scar-Vet, and then beefing up the Rippers to 6)
    Leaders:
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (320)
    -Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    -General
    -Trait: Legendary Fighter
    -Artefact: Relic Blade

    Skink Starseer (160)
    Skink Priest (100)
    -Priestly Trappings
    Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
    Battleline
    25 x Saurus Guard (500)
    10 x Skinks (80)
    -Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (80)
    -Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    Units
    3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)
    Battalions
    Shadowstrike Starhost (120)
    Total:2000/2000

    **This list was inspired by Lord Ribbit's recent battle report. The thing about Seraphon is that Mortal wound spam armies are very scary. The way this list battles that is by making your opponent choose between two evils/threats. Do they spending their mortal wound/strong resources blowing up your bigs dino's or the 2++ Guard block. Lord Ribbit opened my eyes up to how Guard blocks demand mortal wounds. If not, most attacks will bounce off of them (2++ when mystic shielded that ignore -2 rend). It's not perfect but it's something to build on. I look forward to collecting some guard.

    ***I will also add that I'm still figuring out how to use my Rippers. At 3, they are a Kamikaze unit that if ignored, can occasionally hunt down weak back line units. At 6, the turn they come down, they will deal 41 wounds on average and can fight much stronger enemy units. Something to mess around with for sure.

    List 3:
    Leaders

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur General, +1 Wounds(320)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur, Quicksilver potion (260)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One, relic blade(100)
    Skink Starseer (160)
    Skink Priest/Starpriest(100)

    Battleline
    30 x Skinks (240)
    10 x Skinks (80)
    10 x Skinks (80)
    Units
    6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
    Battalions
    Shadowstrike Starhost (120)
    Total: 2000/2000

    ** This is probably the most balanced list of the three. I would love to add some Chameleon skinks to my collection and find a way to fit them in to some lists. This list doesn't have the guard block or the knights, so in my opinion it needs a larger skink unit to offer some midfield stability. I prefer 3 big dinos to two as they will be the main targets in this list. I also slightly prefer 6 Rippers to 3, so this list appeals to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
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  2. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    In list one I would drop the razordon, put in a skink chief (some conversion required) from the Lizardmen listing and make him your general for better effectiveness of your skinks. And while engine and slann are a good combo, you might drop the engine and 10 skinks in favour of a celestial hurricanum from the collegiate arcane.
    For list 2 I would probably rework it to be a shadowstrike and bloodclaw list.
    Drop the unit of 40 skinks and make the other two units of ten. Take 3 units of warriors or guard and an oldblood on foot. Though that's just my preference.
    Your second list is actually really good, so it may work better for you.
    Both lists are good, but with your main gorce being skinks, you may have a tough time against all comers.
     
  3. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Updated the lists. I love these lists and would love to hear from Seraphon players!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  4. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Also, I would love a rule interpretation from the community.

    Scar Vet on Coldone Command Ability: Savage Charge: "until your next hero phase this model and any Saurus Knights within 8" make an additional attack with their Cold Ones’ Vicious Bites"

    So because of the Bloodclaw Starhost I can use command abilities on my leaders as if they were my general. For this list, I have 3 Scar Vets on Coldones. I use the command 3 times, does that equate to 3 additional attacks for the knights in range? It appears to me that it does.
     
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  5. LordRibbit
    Chameleon Skink

    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why not, was having a think about this the other night too, get a serpent staff on the unit for double damage and it's brutal
     
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  6. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    That's not bad. And the starpriest's spell and 2 generic ones are good as well. I wonder if that is better than the Priest. My only concern would be that he might be a little slow, but it seems good.
     
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  7. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Yes, the ability stacks. It does not fall under a rule of 1 so the main rule faq stands that abilities stack unless otherwise stated.
     
  8. m0gstar
    Temple Guard

    m0gstar Well-Known Member

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    It would seem that the stacking effect would be perfectly legal to me!
     
  9. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys! Has anyone tried this type of list before? Unless you get shot to death the first turn, I'd think you could do some smashing with this list.

    Beastclaw Raiders are still very scary. I'm not sure how to deal with that bs.
     
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  10. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    I have run double scar vet both styles, but never triple carno carnage! Sounds like a blast.
     
  11. InfamousBeany
    Cold One

    InfamousBeany Well-Known Member

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    Ok now we're talking my language.

    That first list looks an absolute blast, cool idea with the stacking of bonus attacks on our cavalry- they're such a sub-par unit and this might be enough to make them see play. A couple of thoughts:
    • I'm not sure on having 6 Rippers. They're decent (exponentially so in a Shadowstrike) but they're expensive and fairly frail. I find it hard to justify them without having at least one unit of Cham skinks to back them up and mess with my opponent's target priority, otherwise they'll be left out to dry before the rest of your force can assist.
    • Would a starpriest not be far more useful than a standard priest? Granted, you lose out on the speed slightly, but you have access to a more reliable spell, as well as the serpent staff ability which will be insane with your list.
    • I feel like you would benefit greatly from any of the flavours of Empire Battlemage on offer, be it Jade for healing or Amber for the +1 to wound (that gets pretty crazy), but that isd absolutely a personal opinion and would need a bit of restructuring to fit.
    I look forward to hearing about you testing these out, they look great!
     
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  12. Seraphage
    Troglodon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    These lists seem a lot of fun and will be one of the first to try when I will finally reach the 2000p league !

    I think there has been a slight mistake on the first one at the Old Bloods' command ability on the Scar Vet on Carnosaur : I think it can only boost hero weapons' and that generally we are not aloud to boost mount attacks from these, same as the artifact of order that gives the +1 attack ?
    If anyone knows something different, I d appreciate to learn about it !

    Awesome lists that definitely need to be tested ! Looking forward to your battle reports
     
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  13. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone for the feedback. I think it's great to see everyone's interest in the game!

    - I am definitely considering the starpriest. I will probably try both, but his poison buff and spells seem very good. One thing that has been annoying me is that OldBlood doesn't have a starshield! :( We give these out to Skinks, he should borrow one. He is really important to the army and I would love to have mystic shield on him.

    - The rippers, to me, are better in a list like this than in other Seraphon armies. One thing I've learned from 40k is that you need to have multiple threats that can make your opponent make difficult choices. Their ability to "deepstrike" is great for the dino squad. The rippers can either take out a shooty unit that is sitting back or they can come down early and engage your opponent as your dinos move up the field and prepare to charge. Some games I think the strategy would be to dive this unit down aggressively, knowing all well they are going to die. You trade them for an opponents unit and one turn of focus from your opponent. That allows the main core of the army, The Dinos, to move up the field, healthier and ready to rumble. Other games, they might be able to do some major damage as your dinos absorb the focus from your opponent. That being said, they are expensive, especially when you include the Battalion points. I could see taking them out, the skinks too. This could free up points to increase the knights numbers and to upgrade the priest into another Scar vet on Carnosaur.

    -"then until your next hero phase, whenever a Saurus Hero from your army within 20" attacks in the combat phase, pick one of its weapons and add 2 to its Attacks characteristic until the end of the phase"
    You are probably right about the weapon.
     
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  14. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Updated 2nd list. It looks appealing as well. I'd love to play with Ripperdactyls to see how good they are.


    If I had all these models this would be so much fun to put on the table. It would look amazing with all those Giant dinosaurs.

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (320)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)

    Saurus Knights x 5 (120)
    Saurus Knights x 5 (120)
    Saurus Knights x 5 (120)

    Dread Saurian (400)

    Battalions
    Bloodclaw Starhost (100)

    Total: 2000/2000
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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  15. Lachlin
    Cold One

    Lachlin Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that too many heroes? For the bloodclaw benefits i mean.
     
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  16. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Yeah, 2 of the scar-vets wouldn't get to ise their command ability. But still looks like a fun list!
     
  17. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    I did the math on a unit of 6 Ripperdactyls from the Shadowstike battalion. On the turn in which they enter the battlefield, and swoop down, if they all can attack, they deal on average 44 wounds. Now none of these have rend, but that is a lot of wounds. I think the battalion, although expensive, is worth it.

    Your opinions?
     
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  18. Seraphage
    Troglodon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Even with the rule of one standing they can still deal THAT many wounds ? Are we sure we ain't losing something here ? Definitely sounds impressive
     
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  19. Lachlin
    Cold One

    Lachlin Well-Known Member

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    From the warscroll: Voracious Appetite: Each time a model from this unit attacks with its Vicious Beak and scores a hit, immediately make another hit roll against the same target. Carry on until a hit roll does not score a hit, then make any wound rolls.

    So 6 of them roll 6 attacks. lets say 4 hit. you roll 4 more attacks and they hit. we are at 8 hits. So you roll 4 more attacks and 3 hit, you roll 3 more attacks, 2 hit, you roll 2 more no hit. 13 hits you move to wound rolls. is this correct? because that's how i read it.
     
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  20. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    6 Rippers:

    x6 Moonstone Warspears
    - hitting on 4+ with re-roll, wounding on 3+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) = average of 4 wounds
    x18 Slashing Claws - hitting on 3+ with re-roll, wounding on 2+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) = average of 16 wounds
    x18 Vicious Beak (next to toad) - hitting on 4+ with re-roll, wounding on 2+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) + an average of 14 more hits from Voracious Appetite = average of 21 wounds


    4+16+21 = 41 Wounds on average at "-" Rend. I made a mistake with the Beaks.

    The +1 to wound rolls is huge. It is so powerful when you have 2+ re-roll to wound. Almost an autowound.

    http://tools.druchii.net/AoS-Simple-Calculator.php

    This has to be done with a declared swoop and in range of a bloat toad.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
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