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AoS Skinks useless?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by monkey10120, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. monkey10120
    Skink

    monkey10120 New Member

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    I'm trying to like AOS really hard but its still a dread to play. But I am most disappointed with the lizerdmen now, especially skinks.

    With javelins they only have 8in range. With no charge reactions any more it's basically a death sentence for them. I mean yeah you can flee after you lose have your guys when they get charged but my favourite units are not the sneaky hit and runners they used to be.

    Also bonus question, how to deal with mortal wounds? These wounds one might be the reason I stop playing AOS
     
  2. Raptor_00
    Skink

    Raptor_00 Member

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    They have utility as hit and runners but are not 8th ed Skinks, so don't try and use them that way.

    Their retreat works well when there are multiple combats on the table. It forces your opponent to make a decision: A. choose Skink combat and really demolish the unit, while letting that unit of Temple Guard destroy something more important B. chose the other combat and Skinks simply retreat instead of pile in and get to shoot again next turn without losing anything.
    You can also use them that way to pull an enemy out of position by letting someone continually charge them and retreat, to bring them into range of Slann spells, or better yet Blot Toads for a Ripper charge.

    Chameleon Skinks are the better choice by far. But a good 20-30 Skinks can be devastating especially with the buffs they get for larger units, or if you take the Skink Patrol to get those bonuses. Or do both in a bigger game.

    Mortal wounds are rough. Don't let yourself get into combat with things that deal mortal wounds. Skinks move faster than a lot of infantry on the field. 8" vs an average 5". You'll get ran down by cav, but that means their cav isn't hitting you important units so let them send cav and monsters that deal mortal wounds on Skinks. In fact, put them in the way of such units. It's saves Slann and Temple Guard to charge in and do that combat first because TG will kill lots of things.

    Everything is more killy in this edition. So to deal with mortal wound is really to kill what's dealing them. Send in a couple units to kill it. You'll get to do at least one of those combats to try killing the mortal wound dealer.

    More importantly though. If AOS is a dread to play, then don't play it. It's not everyones cup of tea. I love it compared to 8th. I found 8th dull to play with to many rules to memorize and too hyper-competitive. But that's me. I like casually playing where I can put my favorite or newly painted model down and play something, even if that's all I put down. If it's a dread, you might want to follow Nightbringer's advice and rejoin 8th or look to 9th. There seems to be lots of excitement around it.

    Hope the tactics help to make Skinks work for you.
     
    Opentany, Bowser, n810 and 1 other person like this.
  3. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    I far too many skinks for them *not* to be useless -_-
     
  4. tom ndege
    Skar-Veteran

    tom ndege Well-Known Member

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    I think they are quite good if fielded in masses... I guess if you use them like described above or find your own new tactics they might turn out very useful...

    But I'm still wanting back my 5th Ed skinks with short bows and two shots poison attack etc... They were"useful". ;-)
     
    pendrake likes this.
  5. is4evrdead
    Cold One

    is4evrdead Active Member

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    thats ctually why i didnt really like 8th so many skinks flooding the battlefield making the saurus who where spawned for the sole purpose of war take the back seat and not being played dont get me wrong the skinks themselves are fine its just im happy seeing the saurus getting the attaintion and respect as the main force in aos
     
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  6. tom ndege
    Skar-Veteran

    tom ndege Well-Known Member

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    Saurus also have to be fielded in masses! ;-)
     
  7. monkey10120
    Skink

    monkey10120 New Member

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    Thanks for some tips. But I still have some trouble with those.

    First is I am only playing AOS because my friends like it and I am just trying to see why. Just too many questions while we play.

    Second is balance. Yeah these tactics work but only with a crap ton of skinks. With no points how much is too much? And even then you say Chameleon skinks are a better choice but that seems to be all AOS is. Screw all other units and only bring the best of the best. No limits, no anything.

    As of now I just dont see any use for them. Hell, they are not even good chaff as they usually only last 1 round of combat in a unit of 10-15. I might just try to find a new group that will play 9th :(
     
  8. monkey10120
    Skink

    monkey10120 New Member

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    But thats where the issue comes in. How many is too many? I have 160 skink models but where do I stop placing them on the table and still have a balance between armies?
     
  9. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    I would imagine that...
    Most ranged units are terrible in close combat.
    So, try and use their superior movement to get them
    where they can shoot and not be charged.

    If they do get charged use their unique combat reform,
    to get most of them out of close combat.
    (remember they can still use their ranged attacks in close combat)
     
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  10. monkey10120
    Skink

    monkey10120 New Member

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    But how can you shoot and keep them out of combat? Most units move at least 5" movement, charge range only needs to be snake eyes to make it in 1" of them combined with pile in means they will always be charged. I guess I just have to forget using these little guys the way I have been for years

    Also we have been not shooting in close combat even though the rule is so vague that you can. Maybe with shooting when in combat it will help but AOS rules are resulting in more time arguing about rules then playing the game.
     
  11. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    There are NO restrictions whatsoever for shooting in AOS besides maximum range.

    ps. Skinks have 8" of movement, and the Boltspitter has a 16" range.

    Pps. choose the skink unit to go first, and then use withdraw before they get attacked in return.
     
  12. StealthKnightSteg
    Razordon

    StealthKnightSteg Well-Known Member

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    For a charge to be successful snake eyes won't cut it, you always need at least 3", as it's not 1" but 1/2" to make the charge, pile in is only after a completed charge
     
  13. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Skinks = s
    Enemy = E

    EEEEEE
    EEEEEE

    /\
    |
    charge

    ssssss
    ssssss


    -------------
    combat skinks go first

    EEEEE<--- this one probably dies
    EEEEE
    sssss
    sssss

    ------------
    skinks reform and then enemy goes

    EEEE
    EEEEE
    s <--- this one probably dies
    ssss
    sssss

    ------------
    then skinks shoot

    EE<--- theses one probably die
    EEEEE

    ssss
    sssss
     
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  14. tom ndege
    Skar-Veteran

    tom ndege Well-Known Member

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    I think this "wary fighters"- rule is also a good thing to use... In case you're getting successfully charged you can withdraw... Maybe you loose a few of them but that's why I said field them in masses. I would suggest a unit of 40 for to start with... So you will have the full bonuses for at least some rounds of combat. If you don't want/need the bonuses you would field less, what probably would be an option for smaller games cause 40 models really seems a mass for a skirmish game like aos. Instead of looking up rules and tables you'd spend some time moving every single model. :D:p
     
  15. ChubbSkink
    Saurus

    ChubbSkink Member

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    Sorry for highjackig the thread but, is the skink patrol formation any good. I'm just starting AoS and I thought a good start is collecting that Formation. Besides I think the rules are quite neat.
     
  16. Raptor_00
    Skink

    Raptor_00 Member

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    I like the Skink formation especially if you play any objective based games and not just destroy the enemy.
    I usually use 2 units of Chameleons, a Priest with cloak of feathers, and Ripperdactyls (usually 6 of these guys).

    We've been playing a weekly wound capped tournament for the past month at smaller scales until people can build up new armies. But that configuration as been eating up enemies. I can strike anywhere on the board quickly, ambush to grab objectives with Chameleon Skinks, and the cloak gives the Priest his shooting attack and some higher movement to make him a threat as well.

    It's an absolutely awesome formation if you like to carefully plan out where you need to be a couple turns in advance. It's also cheaper to get than most other formations. I started with getting the Priest, a box of Rippers, and a box of regular Skinks that I converted up.
     
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  17. Kultak
    Skink

    Kultak Member

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    It can be if you play it right! I placed a skink patrol (2 x units of chameleons, 1 x unit of rippers, 1 x Priest) on the table and beefed it up with two Stegadons some TGs, a Slann and two salamanders. I ended up killing about 60% of the other players army in turn 1! The TG and Slann did not get to fight that turn.
     
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  18. ChubbSkink
    Saurus

    ChubbSkink Member

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    Thanks for your replies! You think chameleon skinks are better than their normal counterparts? Also, just got my hands on a troglodon and a Stegadon, for sure they will be supporting my formation! Cheers
     
  19. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    Skinks can be bloody brutal if you know how to use them right. The only catch is that if you want Skinks to be good, you need a Skink army rather than a mixed army. My brother asked for help designing one, so I built him a nearly game-breaking one. Let me show you.

    Now an important thing to know for any Skink army that, while the Saurus battalion is rubbish, the Skink one is downright necessary for any Skink player. Now, for this Battalion you'll need two units of either Skinks or Chameleon Skinks. Assuming you're not made of money, regular skinks will be the more affordable choice (though Chameleons are just better in every way, so if you are made of money then replace every Skink here with a Chameleon.) Skinks are downright puny in small numbers, but in groups of thirty or higher, they'll be hitting on 3+ with their ranged attacks which is great. However, because the Javelin's range is too small and puts the Skinks in harm's way, you want to use the Boltspitters. 5+ to wound may seem weak, but remember that your 3+ to hit adds some needed balance to this. I recommend two units of 40 skinks, that way you can afford some casualties without losing your 3+ to hit, and the Shields will give you an immunity to -1 rend which will save a few lives in a few scenarios, better than a melee weapon that the Skinks would never need because they stand up in melee about as well as a rotten tree branch.

    Then for the battalion, you need some fliers. I'd say go for the Ripperdactyls for two reasons. Firstly they're more melee oriented, and you'll need some muscle in order to keep your flimsy Skinks safe. The second reason I'll go into in a minute.

    Lastly for the battalion, you need a Skink Priest. Pick one that has the Cloak of Feathers for that improved save, and the increased movement with fly because positioning your Priest here is key. This is because the Battalion gives him an ability where you can pick one enemy unit he can see in your Hero Phase, and all hit and wound rolls of 1 can be rerolled against that target unit. Those 3+ hit roles are looking much nicer now, eh?

    Now for the real game changer, as well as the reason why Saurus are unwanted here. For your general, pick a Skink Chief. You want him for his Command Ability, pick a Skink unit within 10" of the Chief and they can add +1 to all their hit rolls. Now remember those 3+ to hits with rerolls of 1? Now they're 2+ to hit with rerolls, and 40 shots too. Suddenly those 5+ to wounds seem feasible due to the sheer number of hits you're delivering.

    In addition, remember those Ripperdactyls I said we'd come back to? Well thanks to the Battalion's rules, you don't set them up at the start of the game. Instead they remain off the board because they're flying high above the clouds. In any of your Movement Phases, you can have them dive to the ground, and set them up anywhere on the board that's no closer than 3" from an enemy. In addition, you add +1 to all their To Wound rolls in this turn. So you drop them near an enemy unit, monster, or hero that you want dead very, very badly and charge them in that turn. The Skink Riders' spears are okay, and the claws get three attacks per which is cool, but you want the Beak attacks the most. The Beak attacks once per model, hits on 4+ and wounds on 3+. But every time you hit, you get to make an additional attack. And if that hits, you make another. And another. And another until you miss all your hits. So you can theoretically hit infinite times. In addition, the Rippers have a rule that lets them move their line of sight to their bases rather than their high up models in exchange for rerolling all failed hits and wounds, so now your infinity beaks get rerolls. And don't forget, they're Skink models so your Chief can buff their to hit roles to 3+ as soon as your Hero Phase pops up again, so that's a rerollable 3+ which results in even more hits in the chain. And lastly, if there's a Blot Toad nearby, the Rippers go berserk and get three attacks with their infinity beaks instead of one. I say 6 Rippers is minimum here, because then you're throwing in 18 Beaks that hit on 3+ with rerolls and can generate more attacks.
    While it may be tempting to throw them right into the fight to make use of that rerollable 2+ To Wound they get for the beaks when they first descend, but I think it's better to drop them down behind your defensive line and wait until they're buffed with the Chief's command ability before sending them off to murder their Blot Toad-marked target.

    Lastly, add in a Stegadon (I like the one with the fire throwers myself, great against hordes,) and a Bastiladon (Solar Engine rocks, by the by) for more muscle to protect your skinks, plus a Wizard for some support (I prefer Tetto'Eko, a fun character and fits a Skink theme better than a Slann, because army themes is awesome in AoS due to more freedom in what you field, plus the rerolls are amazing when you have a priest that only uses his Rites on a 4+ like we do.)
    Oh, and one last note. Arcane Shield and Priestly Rites together on the Bastiladon makes for a scary combination, a 2+ rerollable armour save that cannot be reduced by anything short of a mortal wound, and even mortal wounds are stopped on a 4+. Makes for what I consider the best tank in the game, needed for your Skinks to feel safe.

    And there you have it, a monster of a Skink army. Play smart and you'll win a lot.
     
  20. ChubbSkink
    Saurus

    ChubbSkink Member

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    Whoa! Excellent advice indeed. Thanks! I'm missing the Skink chief and Tetto'Eko but that'll come with time. Really glad I chose Lizardm.. Sorry Seraphon to start playin AoS.
     

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