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AoS Solving The Long Range Problem

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Nun-pak, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    Recently @Bandicoot created a thread about how allies can fill holes in the Seraphon army. One of the conclusions was using the Stormcast Eternals’ “Celestar Ballista”. And I was thinking how about a unit with range more than 25” (which is max range from unit in Seraphon = Stegadon).

    I knew I had to stick with the “Aztec” theme so, I researched ranged weapons which concluded me to 3 ranged items, the bow and arrow, atlatls (which are long ranged spears), and slings. I knew the Seraphon army had spears and I thought bows and arrows are too generic. So, I decided to look into slings.

    From Source:
    The Aztec warrior didn't just pick up stones on the battlefield - they would be prepared ahead of time, carefully shaped. It is believed that the stones could be thrown farther than the arrows could be shot - perhaps over 650 feet.

    So I decided that it would be fun to have a unit (which could replace handlers) that can have slings which have a 30” or more range.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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  3. LizardWizard
    Bastiladon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    I like. The Romans and Greeks had Pelters. Persia and most of the old world use slings and sculpted shoots as well. Make it happen @Gamesworkshop :D
     
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  4. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    Ye I understand other empires and etc. had slings too but it hasn’t been really incorporated into warhammer in general.
     
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  5. PabloTho
    Saurus

    PabloTho Member

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    Would they come in large units that fire with low accuracy? Or small dedicated 'sniper' teams (with stats like 1 shot 3+/3+/-1/D3)?
     
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  6. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    Well I was thinking the same thing, according to Aztec history there would be about a large unit firing these slings but I was also thinking about unit size adaptation. It means that according to unit size it would affect the warscroll ability. So if you had 2-3 models they would be “snipers”, but if you had a large unit (4-8 models) they would have relatively low accuracy.
     
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  7. LizardWizard
    Bastiladon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    A sling is an incredibly accurate weapon under 35 feet. You can certainly get much further range, but it really does become significantly less accurate. Maybe the warscroll could reflect that. Perhaps a 24" range hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's, & 1 damage. But if the target is 12" or less then 6+ to hit deal D3 mortal wounds? However if the targets are more than 18" then the shot has a rend -1 as the projectile gains terminal velocity.
     
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  8. LizardWizard
    Bastiladon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    The Greeks would make shaped clay sling shot with with irritant inside it. That way when it hit shields or the ground they would break and cause the enemies eyes to water. Maybe once per game they could shoot a special shoot that if it hits cause the affected unit to he -1 to hit for a period of time.
     
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  9. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    I love this idea! However, maybe if the target is 12” or less it should have a 3+ to hit (4+ to wound) since the target is closer making the shot more accurate?
     
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  10. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    This is great!
     
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  11. PabloTho
    Saurus

    PabloTho Member

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    Really cool ideas floating around here... I've created a stat line out of boredom.

    Skink Slingers

    Wounds - 1
    Move - 8
    Save - 6+
    Bravery - 10

    A unit of Skink Slingers contains 5 or more models, each armed with a Starfire sling.

    Weapons:

    Starfire sling - Missile: 1 attack, 24", 4+/4+/-/1

    Spare projectiles - Melee: 1 attack, 1", 5+/6+/-/1

    Special Rules:

    The leader of a unit of Skink Slingers is a Sniper. A Sniper adds one to hit rolls in the shooting phase.

    Abilities:

    Domeshot - A hit roll of 7 or more for an attack made with a Starfire sling deals one mortal wound in addition to any other damage.

    Hail of Starfire - Starfire slings have an Attack characteristic of 3 instead of 1 If a unit of Skink Slingers shoots its Starfire slings at a target within 10". In addition, add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with that weapon.

    Starfire ignition - Starfire projectiles will gain speed and ignite with crackling Azyrite energy as they arc through the air. If a unit of Skink Slingers shoots its Starfire slings at a unit outside of 18", they have a rend characteristic of -1 instead of '-'.

    Blessed Oils - Once per game, a unit of Skink Slingers can use their Starfire slings to shoot blessed projectiles filled with a choking, vaporous concoction. Enemy units hit with this attack must subtract 1 from hit rolls as they reel from the pungent fumes. Chaos Daemons find the oils particularly repugnant and also suffer D3 mortal wounds.

    Wary Fighters - When it is this units turn to pile in and attack, it can withdraw instead. Move each model up to 8", so that each model ends at least 3" from the enemy.

    __________

    What do you think, guys? Too strong? Not strong enough? How would you price them?
     
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  12. GuaDan
    Cold One

    GuaDan Active Member

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    I would like to see a ranged unit of kroxigor, with either giant slings or bows.
     
  13. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    @PabloTho

    Your warscroll is amazing! If you want some changes here it is:

    Skink Slingers

    Move - 6” - don’t need to move that much cus’ they are long ranged
    Save - 5+ - just thought this would make them more of a long-living unit

    Special Rules:

    When it is over 18” it gains velocity and gets a -1 rend - you already said this but it belongs in the special rules, in my opinion.

    Abilities:

    Deadly When Close - Within 12” add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with the Starfire Sling. - I just thought it would be too over powered if they 3 attacks

    Blessed Oils - Once per game, a unit of Skink Slingers can use their Starfire slings to shoot blessed projectiles filled with a choking, vaporous concoction. Enemy units hit with this attack must subtract 1 from hit rolls as they reel from the pungent fumes. Chaos Daemons find the oils particularly repugnant and also suffer D3 mortal wounds. - I love this rule, good job

    Wary Fighter - love how you added this to them
     
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  14. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    It's just that all skinks have move 8", so there's little reason to lower it for them.
     
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  15. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    upload_2019-1-2_23-31-9.jpeg
    I made this warscroll but since all skinks have 8” movement it should be changed
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    So like Kroxigor Slingers? Because maybe there are too much skink and Saurus units. I like the idea.
     
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  17. Warden
    Skink Priest

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Some Mayan warriors perhaps?

    d847cac88ae4ce67f79f6911bb2da0da.jpg

    cfdd11c36ebafd24546ac139f711c172.jpg

    Granted they were mostly armed with spear/clublike weapons, but atlatls could work well too.

    age of conan jade teeth.jpg
     
  18. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    The Seraphon already have Spears and Club-like weapons, so like I said before, it is fully down to three weapons. Atlatls, bows, and of course Slings. Also, it would be cool if the Seraphon could have sheaths like shown in the picture at the bottom.
     
  19. Nun-pak
    Saurus

    Nun-pak Member

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    Guys! Great News!
    upload_2019-1-8_11-57-23.jpeg
     
  20. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Neat, but there's two major issues on the ones you list on your warscroll that'l prevent em from actually outgunning the opposition.

    1) They're lacking a special weapon option that brings significant damage (the abilities of their slings aren't special enough for a group of 5 to only equip those)
    2) They're lacking raw firepower at only 1 attack/model and with 5 models in a unit a unit will only really hit once per turn which isn't really going to achieve much.

    Unless they're very cheap so you can spam them in sufficient quantities to make up for those two drawbacks I don't see them solving our ranged issues. As it stands they don't even really outperform chameleons outside of a handfull of relativly small advantages (e.g. slightly better range, but given how chameleons work getting in range usually isn't the issue..)

    I do like the oils though. If you'd make it into a permanent ability instead of a once per battle thing they'd make for some very effective supporting troops. Their main use would be their debuff & that'd make them very cost-efficient. Either they'l debuff your opponent and occasionally score a wound, or your opponent wastes precious time murdering them which is time your real troops can use to get into position. Which fits very well with their role as skirmishers, a distraction and general nuisance which left unchecked will be a giant pain but is unlikely to win any fight on its own.

    Also minor sidenote, why don't they have any shields?
     
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