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7th Ed. Stegadon based army

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Army Lists' started by blackhawk, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. Aparach
    Troglodon

    Aparach New Member

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    I would interpret the rules as the stegadons equipment count as a warmachine when working out charge responses. Hasn't seen the new book yet, but that seems most likely to me.. considering thouse highly intelligent skinks( :p ) try to preforme quit a difficult operation reloading, aiming and shooting at the incoming charge...

    So I'd say no stand and shoot..
     
  2. blackhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    blackhawk New Member

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    well i looked it up in the brb, and i found that bolt throwers, stone throwers and cannons are described as warmachine in there.
    it also states that it should be mentioned in the army book if any other " warmachine" is a warmachine as a special rule.

    so if that is true, and for example the trebuchet, flame cannon, warp lightning cannon, hellblaster and such are stated as warmachines in the army book of that army, then it is obvious the howdah weapons are NO warmachines, and so can stand and shoot until an new errata tells us they cant ( or do can).

    you must see the howdah weapons as light and bigger versions of their smaller kind ( GIANT bow, GIANT blowpipes)
     
  3. Aparach
    Troglodon

    Aparach New Member

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    If that is the case, then the stegadon is truely a badass! I see your point with the warmachine rule, and it seems you're probably right. I would like it confirmed though.
     
  4. blackhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    blackhawk New Member

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    I know it would be very nasty. Thats why soms ons should look it up in al warmachine arme book. (ie empire/dwarfs) if it says that hellblaster or flame cannon have the special rule " warmachine" then the howdah weapons are Not. If it nothing about being al warmachine then the howdah is a warmachine.
     
  5. msinosic
    Kroxigor

    msinosic New Member

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    I dont have the Empire or Dwarf book but I do have the Orc and Goblin one.

    These two are clearly defined.

    Rock Lobbers: Rock Lobbers are Stone Throwers and complete rules can be found in the Warhammer Rulebook.
    Spear Chukkas: Spear Chukkas are Bolt Throwers and complete rules can be found in the Warhammer Rulebook.

    As is the Doom Diver:

    Doom Diver Catapult:The Doom Diver Catapult is an unusual varient of the Rock Lobber ... When firing the Doom Diver Catapult treat is exactly as you would a Rock Lobber.

    So you would expect if the Giant Blowpipes or Giant Bow were not meant to stand and shoot that it would say something like: The Giant Bow is an larger version of a Bow... When firing the Giant Bow treat is exactly as you would a Bolt Thrower.

    However, it doesn't say that. It needs clarification. I am not even sure which way it 'should' go in the end. What feels in the spirit?
     
  6. Aparach
    Troglodon

    Aparach New Member

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    Yeah, it does seem a bit weird to me to have a large howda weapon stand and shoot, but then again rules are rules. Hope to see this problem solved in a faq or something.
     
  7. Dalkarius
    Ripperdactil

    Dalkarius New Member

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    Last time I checked though, the Giant Bow does say to treat it as a Bolt Thrower when it comes to rank penetration, so wouldn't we shoot it like one? The Giant Blowpipes I have no idea about, but this seems like we're trying to make a small miswording into a complete advantage, which may be unfair to our opponents, but then again, to Stand & Shoot with those weapons would give us some serious power.
     
  8. msinosic
    Kroxigor

    msinosic New Member

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    Don't you think when they go to the effort to say treat it like Bolt Thrower when something happens that when everything else happens you would not treat it lilke a Bolt Thrower. Else they would just say, always treat it like a Bolt Thrower!

    It's logical, but not necessarily true.
     
  9. Scarloc
    Chameleon Skink

    Scarloc New Member

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    Well if it was treated like a bolt thrower technically if you were charged all your skink crew would have to jump out front to defend it so I am going to go with not a war machine. Now I think the skinks have javalins and I believe that entitles them to a stand and shoot option. As for the shooting itself I think we are going to have to check the wording carefully. If it says something like it shoots like a bolt thrower or if the shots are resolved like a bolt thrower. If it shoots like one then just check the BRB under bolt thrower and I am pretty sure they cannot shoot. If it is resolved like one then it shoots like a bow and should be able to stand and shoot.
     
  10. captkurt
    Jungle Swarm

    captkurt New Member

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    It appears that it simply shares one element in common with a BT, that it penetrate ranks. That is it. If it were a bolt thrower, they would simply have written that. Its clearly not a war machine, can march, move and shoot, Skinks are riders and do not have to just out to defend...also it appears that it does NOT ignore armor saves. So it seems to have more items that are not in common with the BT.
     
  11. redphantasm
    Jungle Swarm

    redphantasm New Member

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    @captkurt
    The Great Bow does ignore armor saves. It also makes poisoned attacks.

    Based on my reading of the book, the great bow is its own kind of weapon (with a Str, RNG, abilites, etc) that penetrates ranks in the manner of a bolt thrower. As there is nothing in the description to call it a warmachine it should be able to fire as a stand and shoot reaction.

    The blowpipes on the ancient should also be able to stand and shoot.

    In both these cases it might be best to imagine them not as howdah weapons, but as additional weapons that the skinks crewing the beast can access.
     
  12. Aparach
    Troglodon

    Aparach New Member

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    This is turning into an interesting discussion :) Does anyone have access to a GW store to go and check with the staff? The more, the better. And whatever the answer, this subject should deffinetly appear in a faq
     
  13. blackhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    blackhawk New Member

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    i'm on it.
    today i will be going to the gw here in amsterdam for a gaming night.
    i will look into a empire and dwarf book.
    if the warmachines have been noted as warmachines, then we are lucky and we are able to stand and shoot unit the errata says we cant :p
     
  14. blackhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    blackhawk New Member

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    well i have been looking into the dwarf book and empire book, and in those book it is quite clear they are talking about warmachines.
    so i should say the howdah weapons are no warmachines, until gw says they are in a errate ( if they decide to )
     
  15. blackhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    blackhawk New Member

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    Ok have been playing now 7 battles, which i won 6 of. so i can really say this army works very fine.
    Next week a wood elve player is getting his revenge battle ( his last battle didnt went really well ( bad dice fo rhim and great dice for me)

    but in th emeanwhile peaople have been askink me for 2250 battles. so i'm slowly looking for what i can put in my list besides my 4 stegadons.
    the skinks are just a core filler, and the razordons, well sometimes they slay, sometimes they get slayed.
    but besides the 4 stegadons i want to get something that is also reliable just as the steggies.

    first option is to take 3 salamanders. in the combination of 3 razors en 3 sallies they both get more reliable becouse i can pick out better my targets. though lavarage T and low AS are for razors, and High AS and massed units are for salamanders.
    then I still got like 30 points left to add 6 ranked skinks or handlers.

    second option is a unit of 6 cold ones with full command.
    these guys wil lhave a bit better movement and can defend the other flank ( ie razors). my charging power of the whole army will increase again. with 4 stegadons doing massive impact hits and a S 5 charging cavelry at loads of attacks this is great support or a charger at its own right.

    the third and last option is a unit of 19 saurus with spears in a 3x6+1 formation.
    These guys can handle a charge and dish out a charge.
    they are able to catch a charge and dish out a lot of attacks and able to hold their ground by causin genough wounds. so this would be great addition as a support of the ranked skinks and razordons ie for walking up front and trying to get charged and hoping to hook up a unit, so the stegadons can charge in.

    also this unit gives me more models to pu ton table. 20 more models/casualties is alot in my army. becouse 24 wounds ( stegadons without crew) are all piled on 4 models. if one dies, it really hurts.
    if 6 saurus die, it doesn't hurt as much becouse they stay almost as effective.

    so what do you guys think? any additions? or even some other unit i haven't thought of ( i don't do swarms)
     
  16. Aparach
    Troglodon

    Aparach New Member

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    As your army is fast and extremly heavy hitting, I would go for the SCoR option. They can be used as a nice extra flanker unit to help out any steggies that get caught up in CC to long especially your warspear wielding chief..
    This doesn't provide an extra element in your army though, but hence to your success so far, I guess that shouldn't be too much of a worry. Don't change a winning team ;)
     

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