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AoS Sud's Thunderlizard Rules, need opinions. (Moved from the rules section )

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Sudsinabucket, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Sudsinabucket
    Saurus

    Sudsinabucket Active Member

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    Here are the updated WIP Thunderlizard rules I have written. She is meant to be a tanky support unit and horde killer, so some factions will have a harder time taking it down as some will have an easier time. I have tried to balance the rules as much as possible .This is not a tota 20190701_152519.jpg 20190701_152554.jpg l finished rule set and will be tweaked as more input and actual playing happen (hopefully). All c&c welome, tell me what you think!
    The model, she is far from done

    I still need to make a damage table, which i'm rather unsure of how to do

    Thunderlizard Rules:

    It takes the full concentration of a Slann Starmaster to control or summon a Thunderlizard into battle, celestial reincarnations of the biggest creatures that once roamed their homeland in the age of myth. It requires the immense arcane ability of the ancient Starmasters to hold it under the command of the Seraphon. If they do, however, the rewards will be great, for a Thunderlizard is the ultimate living warmachine. The charging titan can level trees, great walls, and even small towns. If it impacts with an enemy, the resulting fight is usually swift, bloody, and one-sided.

    The downside to this immense crushing power, however is if there are no Slann Starmasters left to direct their power into controlling the behemoth's simple mind, it will go on a rampage in which it will trample and maim friend and foe in a blood bath of destruction. Being close to the Thunderlizard is asking for death in this state of mind, as nothing less than a concentrated volley of Skystreak Thrower Bolts and can bring down a Thunderlizard.

    Thunderlizard:1300 points

    Wounds: 34
    Bravery: 10
    Save: +3, 6+ Ward
    Move: ●

    Unit size: 1

    ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
    Blowpipes: range 18", 30 attacks, 4+ to hit, 5+ to wound, - rend, 1 damage each
    Skysteak Bow: range 25", attacks 4, 4+ to hit, 3+ to would, - rend, D3 wounds
    Sunfire Throwers: range 8", attacks see below, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, - rend, 1 damage each
    Swinging neck: range see below, attacks see below, to hit 3+, to wound 3+, - rend, 1 damage
    Colossal Tail Smash: Range see below, Attacks see below, to hit 4+, to would 3+, -rend, 2 damage
    ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

    Crew: This behemoth has a crew on top of it. For rule purposes the crew is treated in the same manner as a mount unless an ability or rule states otherwise.

    Terror: *A Thunderlizard's call echoes for miles, the sound is akin to a tropical storm approaching.* All enemy units within 8” suffer a bravery loss of 2.

    Living Battering Ram: 2d6+1 impact hits when charging.

    Titan: *Biggest of all Lustrian beast memories, a Thunderlizard is rivaled by but only a few creatures through the realms* A Thunderlizard is truly a immense beast, overshadowing even the mightiest of Stegadons. The thought that a single strike could kill it is delusional. In addition, attacks that cause d3 wounds with every successful wound only cause 1, and attacks that cause d6 wounds with every successful wound only cause d3. The large frame of the Thunderlizard does render it highly visible to enemy missile troops, however. The Thunder lizard is a large target, enemies shooting at the Thunder lizard gain +2 to hit.

    Landscape to Ruin: *So large is a Thunderlizard that small towns are not safe as they are turned to dust under the weight of its foot, even great Temple Cities are not safe* A charging Thunderlizard is akin to a living battering ram, crushing the surrounding terrain under its feet. /Before the game, work out what the the creature can and cannot flatten (for instance, whereas a peasant dwelling wouldn't even slow it down, even a Thunderlizard may struggle to break down the thickened walls of a stronghold!)./ Every time the creature moves "through" an object it can crush, roll a dice. On the roll of a 4+, remove the terrain feature from play-it has been well and truly wiped out by the creature. Any unit inside a crushed building takes a number of d3 damage hits equal to the number of floors the building had. *Note that Difficult terrain and the like will not slow a Thunderlizard while moving.*

    Thunder and Lightning: *The titanic body of a Thunderlizard generates so much static electricity that it is able to release it as a defense mechanism downward through its legs. When it walks it sounds like a mighty storm* Upon successful charge, roll a d6. On a 3+ the beast releases an electrical blast from its legs. For every unit within 3", roll a d6 for each model in the unit. Every 4+ deals a mortal wound to that unit.

    Broken Link: *Thunder lizards are notoriously difficult to control, just as prone to flattening their own troops as much as the enemy. It takes the mental strength of a Slann mage priest to direct it effectively.* You must field at least 1 Slann Stsrmaster in your army to be able to field a Thunderlizard. In addition, at the start of any turn in which there is no Slann Starmaster on the board, your skinks evacuate the Thunderlizard by way of ladder or glider and land anywhere within 9" of their individual location and cause 2d6 damage to the beast; only 20 survive the descent while the other 10 meet their demise. The Thunderlizard will immediately move towards the closest unit (friend or foe) as fast as possible, charging if able; if charging add the Thunder and Lightning mechanic. You can't regain control for the rest of the battle (of course, the previous owner may shoot at a wild beast in an attempt to stop it slaying their own troops)!

    Thunderous Fall: *To be caught under a falling Thunderlizard is akin to being under a collapsing mountain* If this model is slain the original controlling player picks anywhere on the battlefield within 5" of the Thunderlizard, any units within 4" suffer D6 mortal wounds.

    Arcane Glyphs: *Armored with golden glyphs and armor imbued with magic from the Slann, greatly speeding up the healing of the Thunderlizard* During your hero phase you can heal up to 3+D3 mortal wounds accumulated on this model.

    Channeling the Stars: *Being this far up makes you feel like the constellations are in reach* If Your Star Priest is mounted on the Thunderlizard it generates 1 extra spell/dispel as it is that much closer to Azyr atop of the behemoth.

    Sphere of Galaxies - *A lost artifact of the Old Ones, thought lost to time. Incredibly powerful, the magic the flows out of it depends on 1 of 3 constellations* If your Star Priest looks up and sees Dracothion's Tail constellation it will slow time in battle reducing enemy movement range by 1" and allowing any Seraphon within 12" to move + 2" (down from 3" and double movement) their movement for the rest of the turn. If your Star Priest looks up and sees Fangs of Sotek constellation a pure Azyr aspect of Sotek will come to your aid and send swarms of its children against the enemy within 8" dealing d2 wounds, spell ends and recharges if your constellation changes. If your Star Priest looks up and sees Scales of Qezytol the sun in the middle of the sphere will expand outwards and set fire to all enemies within 8" causing D3 wounds, and can heal friendly units of d3 wounds (you must indicate which ability you are using per turn).

    Or

    Sphere of Galaxies - *A lost artifact of the Old Ones, thought lost to time.* Incredibly powerful, the magic the flows out of it depends on 1 of 3 constellations* If your mountedstar priest looks up and sees Dracothion's Tail you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for Seraphon units in your army while this constellation is ascendant.
    If your mounted Star Priest looks up and sees firey firey steed it will come to the Seraphon's aid and set fire to all enemies within 8" causing D3 wounds, and can heal friendly units of d3 wounds within the same perimeter. If your mounted Star Priest sees the Sage's Staff you add 1 to casting and dispel rolls. You can also re-roll hit rolls of 1 Seraphon unit in your army while this constellation is ascendant. (you must indicate which ability you are using per turn).

    Essentially give you 2 slann constellation bluffs just with different abilties.

    Which one for the last ability?
     
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  2. Sudsinabucket
    Saurus

    Sudsinabucket Active Member

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    Screenshot_20190817-142336_Chrome.jpg Suggestions so far:

    ILKAIN -Well-Known Member

    wow so that's a lot to work with. great narrative, but with what you have put forth here the points cost would be closer to 1200-1500. id like to rein that in a little. first lets look at the stat lines

    34 wounds, 5+ save, * move, 10 bravery.

    wounds: 34 wounds is, in a word, egregious. its far too many for anything in this game. there are KNIGHTS in 40k that don't have this many wounds. the only thing I can think of that comes close is some Tyranid forgeworld models, and they all cost 1k plus points... one of them costs 2000 points. we have to tone this down. I understand its a huge beast and we need to reflect that, but thunder lizards fall prey to one animal alone... the Dread saurian. which only has 16 wounds. IMO lets bring this down to 24. still massive, but now reasonable and comparable.

    save: a 5+ save appears to be a balancing act on your part and I commend you for it, but this beast needs to have at least a 4+, or even a 3+ like the Dread does. reason for this is any amount of rend will simply eviscerate this down its wound tables like its not a thing. for my corrections I'm going to say 4,+ but I'm going to change one of your abilities (your version simply has far too many ability rules) and removing some others.

    Bravery: 10 Bravery is perfectly fine for this monstrosity, its in line with Seraphon models and makes sense.

    Move: asterisk for wound table is perfect. ill do a wound table a bit lower in this post.

    now for the weapon stat lines

    dude without being mean... there are just too many weapons on this thing. I understand your take... but the sheer number of attacks on the TL makes it not a support model which was the intent per your statement... it makes it a one model army. you are also using established weapons which is smart given your inexperience in the game. easier to copy and paste. id rather make something that fits the theme of this beast.... it doesn't need armament persay.

    Titan Stomp: 2d6/5+/2+/-3/*; wounds of 6 inflict mortal wounds instead

    Meteoric Spears: 8"/8/ 5+/4+/-/1

    Ablities: I wanna cull ALOT of these effects. they would be great in a video game.. but table top needs a bit more streamlining. also gonna move an attack or two into an ability style rule.

    Swinging Tail: at the start of every combat phase roll a die for each unit within 6 inches. on a 2+ roll a die for each model in that unit. on a 5+ deal one mortal wound

    Celestial lightning: during the shooting phase pick a unit with in 24" roll a number of dice as per the wound table. if the roll is equal to or more than the bravery of the unit, that unit takes D6 mortal wounds.

    Immense bulk: ignore rend.

    Imposing visage: enemy units within 12" have their bravery reduced by 1

    Felling of the Beast: when the Thunder lizard is reduced to zero wounds doll a die for each unit within 6". on a 4+ that unit has been crushed by a part of the body and suffers D6 mortal wounds.

    MAGIC:

    The thunder lizard is a wizard due to the Star priest on its head and can cast 2 spells in your hero phase and attempt to unbind two spells in your opponents hero phase. the thunder llizard is a valid target for the Slann's Vassal ability. if a Slann is within 12" of a Thunder lizard both the slann and the Thunder lizard receive +1 to casting rolls.

    the thunder lizard knows the Arcane bolt, mystic shield and knit flesh spells

    Knit flesh: CV 8 24" range. adept at keeping their mounts alive, the Pilot starpriest can cast regenerative magic to heal even the most grevious of wounds. if successfully cast and not unbound Knit flesh heals one MODEL within 24" 2d3 wounds. if that model is a thunder lizard it heals 4 wounds instead

    wounds table: ill have to do that when I get back from lunch, at work right now lol

    tags: order daemon celestial Seraphon monster skink hero wizard Thunder lizard

    so that's where I would leave your TL. we want it to be able to support and handle itself, but it also needs to be a central piece of an army, instead of THE army itself. I personally wovalue my redesign at around 700 points
     
  3. Sudsinabucket
    Saurus

    Sudsinabucket Active Member

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    @ILKAIN I really like your ideas! I perhaps did go a bit overboard on the attacks lol
     
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  4. Sudsinabucket
    Saurus

    Sudsinabucket Active Member

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    @ILKAIN With the changes you bring forward above, which I like (admittedly I would miss some of the abilities from the original, but I get it) how is her survivability? Is meteoric spears from the skinks on her back and how does that work? Anymore input? May re write the rules later today or tomorrow and see what other thoughts may come in
     
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  5. ILKAIN
    Troglodon

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    the spears are in line with the traditional attacks from skinks on the back of the Bastilodon and from the howdah from the Stegadon and EoTG. I doubled the number of attacks due to the larger beast being able to carry more skinks, which are essentially there to protect the Star priest so he can focus on controlling the TL.

    her survivability comes in the form of ignoring rend. she puts out a lot of mortals, one of the abilities I gave her is similar to our anti horde spell, and she has two spells she can cast a turn, so shes saving ALOT of wounds... she saves on a 3 and has 2 ways to give her self rerolling 1's. mortals would get her, but I didn't want to make her impossible to whittle down. plus she has a healing spell... re roll saves of 1 and heal wounds every turn... makes for a pretty survivable beast
     
  6. Sudsinabucket
    Saurus

    Sudsinabucket Active Member

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    Thanks so much for your time, it really means a lot.
     
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