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The Last of Sony

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Scalenex, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    If you liked The Last Jedi and Season 8 of Game of Thrones, then Last of Us 2 was made specifically for you.

    When something gets woke and goes broke, I usually attribute it to foolishness. The person in charge of creative decisions lives in a bubble of values apart from his or her fanbase and does not realize that he or she is doing something that will alienate fans.

    I'm not a huge gamer and I was only a casual fan of Last of Us 1, but I now believe that Neil Druckman of Naughty Dog Games deliberately sought to anger his fans and the destroy the franchise he was managing.



    Sony has done a lot of questionable things the past couple years. None of them are big by themselves but taken together make me dislike them.

    I am now rooting for Sony to go Chapter 11. I expect Naughty Dog Games will have a reckoning first.
     
  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Funny how the critic scores and the user scores vary so greatly ;) .... almost as if the critics have some ulterior motives... but surely that can't be...

    Capture.JPG
     
  3. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    This problem has existed with movies and TV for a long time, but it's only recently starting to crop up with video game critics.

    These critics need to think more long term. If you suspect the audience is going to hate it but you want to keep in the good graces of the big companies (who will cut off your early access if you offend them) why not go 80/100 instead of 99/100. That way you can put a foot in both camps.

    I have set my bar so low that now my response "If you are going to lie to me, at least make the lies less transparent!"
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    :p

    They can't see past their political agenda. To them the fans that hate the game/movie/show are phobes or ists or isms.


    The new name of the game is: "The Last Jedi of Us" :cool:
     
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  5. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I believe Neil Druckman does not care about SJW issues but he does want to piss people off for the sake of "art" and this is his means. I believe he is a troll not a true believer.

    I prefer The Last of Sony. Not everything ties to Star Wars Nightbringer.

    Okay let's tie this to Star Wars.

    I believe that Kathleen Kennedy and others wanted to advance the cause of women's empowerment and LGBT and minority acceptance. She tried and failed. In my opinion, she was not trying to make people at mad, at least not at first.

    I believe it was Druckman's intent to draw out homophobic comments rather than encourage acceptance. He was trying to make people mad.



    I do not have a problem with Ellie being a lesbian. In fact, her character was largely based on Ellen Page who happens to be a famous lesbian actress.

    Ancient Greece was a pre-industrial society that was fairly tolerant of homosexual relations. Did you know the word "Lesbian" originated from Ancient Greek slang? One of the first recorded all girl schools was set up on the isle of Lesbos. There was no agenda to promote girl on girl love, but the island got a reputation for that anyway and that's how the term "Lesbian" entered the vernacular.

    The Ancient Greeks weren't super big on monogamy either. The attitude towards non-hetero sex seemed to be "do what you want in your free time but you are obligated to provide a few children to help your family and nation."

    I believe that if a zombie apocalypse and the resulting fall out took North America to a tiny fraction of the population we have now, I believe this would be the attitude the survivors would have during rebuilding. I believe reasonable people would not want to stone people to death for having non-cis sexual preferences but reasonable people would apply social pressure for everyone to have kids because they need to rebuild the human race.

    In Last of Us 2, humanity reverts to tribalism as each group competes with the others for resources. This would cause even more social pressure for everyone to have kids. That's part of the reason pre-industrial societies encouraged people to have lots of babies.

    Ellie is IMMUNE to the zombie infection. Joel advised her to keep this secret because in Last of Us 1 to led to scientists wanting to kill her and autopsy her to figure out why and how she is immune, so that it could be duplicated. Let's assume the community Ellie joined was not brutal enough to kill or enslave her for her power. At the very least they would ask her to have some kids just in case her kids would share her immunity. She could be the new Eve of humanity.

    While the above scenario is realistic, I can understand why the developers would choose not to go this direction. It's a little controversial to push child rearing as a moral obligation, so I'll let that slide.

    They made Ellie's girlfriend unattractive with an unrealistically large nose. When they "flirted" in the promo they told each other they smelled like hot garbage. Reviewers have consistently said the voice actors sound flat and bored with no chemistry.

    I'm a fan of the TV show, Brooklyn 99. In my opinion this show is the gold standard for how to introduce LGBT characters to mainstream audiences. There are multiple alphabet characters on the show but they don't bog down the show with social politics. The characters have endearing romantic interactions. Writers and actors should work on encouraging viewers to cheer for the success of LGBT couples. It would help if Ellie's girlfriend was more attractive. It would help if the voice actors showed more effort, and it would help if Ellie's girlfriend actually pushed the story forward rather than being a tagalong side character so people would learn her name as oppose to call her Ellie's girlfriend.

    I know it's shallow, but if they made Ellie and her girlfriend more attractive, more straight men would support their story arc. Even if you factor out sexual orientation, people prefer to look at attractive people in video games across the board and it seemed like Neil Druckman deliberately chose to push forward unattractive characters.


    Abby is a transwoman. There are ancient cultures that were surprisingly woke and accepting of men and women transitioning to live, dress, and act as the other sex, so it's not that unbelievable that a post-zombie apocalyptic society would have some trans people, but it seems to break my suspension of disbelief that they would be this thorough.

    It takes a lot of resources to physically complete a transition. Complex surgery, extensive follow up treatments and expensive hormone drugs. When there is a shortage of doctors and basic medical supplies, I don't think anyone would do this. But let's set that aside.

    I've only met one transwoman in real life but I have seen many on TV and online. Abby is more masculine looking than almost every transwomen I have ever seen. I think more people would accept her if she looked more feminine and dare I say prettier. It was bad marketing to make Abby look the way she looks. Neil Druckman said his goal was to make Abby representative but if that's the case, he's probably insulting the trans community.

    I remember Scarlet Johansson was slated to play a trans man in a movie. Lots of people complained and said they should hire a trans actor, so Scarjo withdrew. That seems crazy to me. Millions of people will watch a movie just because Scarjo is in it. Scarlett Johansson is not just attractive, she is a very skilled actress. I believe that her acting career will continue even as her looks fade much like Dame Judy Dench and Betty White. Now the opportunity the LGBT community had is lost. A movie is not going to "change people's minds" if no one watches it.

    If you really want to change minds and advance a social justice, you have to do some basic marketing.



    But that's not what really is wrong with Abby. Abby would still be a horrible character if she was a cis-gendered woman and she would still be a horrible character if she was a cis-gendered man named Allen. Not very often, but once in a while I like to watch a TV show or movie that is dark and gritty and depressing as long as it's artistically done and has some meaningful philosophy behind it.

    Back to Star Wars. The Last Jedi took the hero Luke and made him a pathetic old man. This could have worked if either or ideally both of the following things were done.

    1) You set up a whole movie to show his gradual downfall. Maybe even two movies to show his downfall.
    2) You built up a redemption arc. Look at Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse. They created a pathetic, broken, emasculated version of Peter Parker, but Peter Parker redeemed himself and found new hope training a protege. (It also helped that his protege wasn't automatically the best at everything without training.) This was also the basis of the movie Logan.

    The Last of Us 1 created a moving story being a surrogate father and a surrogate daughter. Then the Last of Us 2 murdered the surrogate father for essentially no reason.

    If Last of Us 2 was a movie, and not a cinematic video game, I might have been okay with watching Joel die a tragic death. Maybe. There'd need to be some kind of pay off but there is not a pay off.

    As bad as The Last Jedi was. Imagine if Rey captured Luke Skywalker, mutilated him, then force fed him green milk till he drowned. Then imagine The Last Jedi is a video game and the only way to advance to the next level is for the player to direct Rey to torture Luke to death.

    Abby not only does many despicable acts but the game forces the player to carry out many of these acts. Then it tries to humanize Abby awkwardly with flashbacks about how hard her life was and show her acting amiably with friends and petting a dog.

    1) It's not sufficient to make me root for Abby if she brutally murdered a character I like.
    2) Even if it was sufficient, a good story teller would show her being a good person and THEN committing unspeakable acts of betrayal and brutality.

    Pewdipie isolated himself from spoilers and did a livestream with his reaction to The Last of Us 2. To paraphrase him "Despite being a controversial character I was willing to give Abby a chance until she killed Joel. I hope she dies at the end."

    And it just so happens that Ellie kills everyone in the room with Joel when he died and nearly single handedly murders everyone in the tribe that was connected to Joel's killers but she inexplicably decides to give Abby a free pass.

    There is no in-character reason she would do that. The only reason was to anger the fans of Last of Us 1.

    This is not only going to kill the franchise, but it's going to set back Trans acceptance. What they did is worse than making Abby a Mary Sue. They made Abbey a character fans would despise on visceral level

    If the goal was to introduce Abby as a flawed and believable character who also serves as positive representation they should have kept her as a bitter person who is a little more aggressive than she should be, but they should have made her an ally of Ellie and Joel, not an enemy.


    Finally, besides the graphic torture scenes there are some pornographic sex scenes. The game has an adult rating, so that's fine but it bothers me that streaming platforms like Twitch and Youtube allow this to get posted and they censor other things that are a lot tamer. A graphic sex scene with a trans character (and Druckman's self insert character) is okay to not censor, but footage with a clothed Anime chick with jiggling cleavage must be purged.

    It seems like the standard for what is "art" and what is "lewd and inappropriate" all depends on whether straight men find something arousing or repulsive. If straight men like it, it's lewd and inappropriate. If straight men are repulsed by something it's art.

    I must add the disclaimer that we do not allow sexually explicit things on Lustria-Online. But we are not going to allow such things if they support our political narrative and oppose them if they do not support our political narrative. We strive to not be hypocrites.

    A private company is free to do as they wish, but I really loathe "Rules for thee, but not for me."

    I don't spend a lot of money on video games, so pissing me off is not a huge financial loss for Sony and Naughty Dog

    I seek high quality food and drink normally. If I am dying of thirst, I will drink muddy water. If I am dying of hunger, I will eat food out of a dumpster. I don't need to play video games. If a video game company, if the entire video game industry, does things I don't like I will stop buying their games.

    The same goes for movies, fiction novels, TV, comic books, RPGs, even tabletop miniatures. Entertainment is not a necessity. I will not spend my time and money on a company that does not try to produce a product that I like.

    Normally I would find or create a Sony or Last of Us meme, but I cannot. They messed up so bad, I cannot even make fun of them. They are wokest and the brokest.
     
  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    3370.jpg

    I haven't given up on Sony just yet. I've enjoyed my PS4 immensely and as long as this woke crap remains the exception, rather than the rule, I can put up with it. I just won't buy/play any of the woke crap.
     
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  7. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I am usually the person who says this to people who see conspiracies.

    But the Happy Father's Day tweet tells me malice is involved.

    I will not hold this against you.

    As for me, I play console games so rarely this is not a hard sacrifice for me to do.
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    My bet is still on him being a beta male cuck SJW. They just can't help themselves. Round Head (Rian Johnson) also antagonized the fan base whenever the opportunity permitted.
     
  9. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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  10. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Sadly (but predictably) it has made quite a bit of money. It was to be expected based on the overwhelming success/popularity of the first one, coupled with the fact that most people don't follow these spoilers very much. The question is, will it have TLJ effect by damaging the franchise from here on out?
     
  11. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    There are already thousands of used copies of the game on ebay, some with starting bids of 99 cents.
     
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  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Still a rip-off if you ask me.

    Mind you that most auctions start at 99 cents. The cheapest actual sold listing I see on Ebay Canada is $52.92CAD.

    On the plus side, it is telling that there are already so many used copies for sale so soon after its release .
     
  13. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Well said.

    I will say that recent events have lowered the bar for me. I have a rule that I do not have more than one major streaming service at one time. I have unsubscribed from Hulu. I got a few days left before my last month ends. The upcoming deadline motivates me to watch movies that I've been dragging my feet on.

    I just watched Conan the Barbarian (2011). It's not as good as Conan the Barbarian (1982). Lots of very awesome things came out of 1982 by the way. :cool:

    But I can tell the creators were trying to keep the spirit of the original. They weren't trying to subvert expectations or sell a political message. I enjoyed the 2011 movie. I still think the 1982 movie is better but I've seen it six times. I think I enjoyed the 2011 movie better than I would have enjoyed a seventh view of the 1982 movie.

    I'm sure I'll watch the 1982 movie again some day, I own it on DVD.

    While I am really found of the 1982 Conan movie, I will admit the ending was a bit anticlimactic. The 2011 version had a very exciting ending. Maybe the 1982 ending was deeper, I don't know. That's a discussion for another time.
     
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  14. Paradoxical Pacifism
    Carnasaur

    Paradoxical Pacifism Well-Known Member

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    Related to the Last Of Us Part Two:



    Edit: Naughty Dog sold more than 4 million copies already :eek:
     
  15. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    "That's a discussion for another time."

    Don't you mean...

    fdsa.JPG

    ;)
     
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  16. Karnus
    Kroxigor

    Karnus Well-Known Member

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    I have never played the last of us 1 or 2 but I am very aware that the sequel has not been well received. Can anyone give me a summary of what the problem is?

    EDIT: I have just read Scalanex’s reply in detail and I understand his personal grievances but the impression I get from my friends that have played is that it is “dominant”. Their words not mine xD
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  17. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Last of Us 1 and 2 are cinematic video games. It's a movie that is linked together with video game action scenes.

    Last of Us 1 creates an emotional bond with two characters that are slowly developed over the entire game. Of the two main characters of Last of Us 1, Last of Us 2, tortures one and kills the other, then it forces players to play the person that killed and tortured the original characters. Only after the new character commits lots of heinous acts do they start to retroactively try to humanize her with flashbacks.
     
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  18. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  19. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I hope Critical Drinker's liver holds out because he is my favorite critic.
     
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