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AoS The summoning of nurgle

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Canas, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. OnlyPerfect
    Skink

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    Despite any other restrictions the fact remains that none of these rules (nurgle or death) override the GHB 2017 in regards to paying points cost to set-up new units unless the rule specifically states otherwise. With death we don't know everything yet so we'll see, but unless there is an FAQ that changes things nurgle seems pretty obviously bound by GHB 2017 in regards to summoning.
     
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  2. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they just release an email adress on which to harras em for FAQ's? :p
     
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  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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  4. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    What ?? I had no idea, time to learn about the "Scar Veteran on Foot" Bloodclaw thingie !
     
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  5. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    And while you're at it: Ask what to do with a EotG rolling 14-17 in matched play.
     
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  6. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    That one I think is just kinda screwed unfortunatly... :(
     
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  7. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Yep, nothing to go around. It is how it is for matched play unfortunately. Just use Slann and Curse of Fate with it - only solution I can think of to make it less worse
     
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  8. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I don't go to tournaments so I just houserule it. Everyone who wants to play against me has to accept that 14-17 means: "Pick one of the lower results".
    That would be the minimum that I'd like to see officially.
     
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  9. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    tbh, I wouldn't accept that rule, not without some sort of compensation..the EoTG already isn't briljant and this removes one of its most powerfull abilities. Plus, we suffer from enough bandaid solutions as is. We need a bunch of stuff to be reworked proper already..
     
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  10. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Sadly we are stuck with the new FAQ, and we will keep a useless ability until... who knows?
     
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  11. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I wouldn't be super happy either, but why wouldn't you accept the choice of choosing whether you want to summon or pick something else?
    It is still better than the one we have now which is completely useless in matched play.
     
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  12. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    meh, I'd probably just not use the EoTG at all if you'd demand that, or not play with you :p

    But yea the choice between "utterly useless" and "at least does something" isn't exactly difficult
     
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  13. OnlyPerfect
    Skink

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    14-17 while not being ideal has never really bothered me that much to be honest. I run EotG almost every game. usually if I roll 14-17 in the first one or two turns I use it to summon from my reserves and allow my other casters to do other caster things. if it happens turn 3+ ( a rareish occurrence thanks to curse of fates and slann and the possibility that it may have taken damage by then) I generally chalk it up to a miscast, which while not ideal has never costs me the game.

    I think the unreliability is part of the reason this model isn't pointed higher, and to be honest I would rather keep it that way as I have a ton of other things competing for those points in my list. Just my 2 cents though.
     
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  14. teorole
    Jungle Swarm

    teorole New Member

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    i play nurgle, is very good in CAC and spell phase.
    have a nice monster and good meccanics.
    i want to do i little thing: THE SUMMON WITH CONTAGION POINTS, COST REINFORCEMENT POINT. (in matched play)
     
  15. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    I think that if Nurgle can "summon" and move units, that's just stupid. This would mean a HUGE advantage over all other armies.
     
  16. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    They are more limited in where they can summon though, only 12" in comparison to the 18" that others have. Plus, stuff like a balewind doesn't increase it. On the other hand, if you have say 5 heroes and a tree or two you should still easily be able to cover most of the battlefield.... But yea, I can't find anything about not being allowed to move in the book (nor about point-costs) which is the only two things that are confusing me.
     
  17. OnlyPerfect
    Skink

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    The book doesn't need to say anything about point cost b/c that in covered under reinforcements in GHB 2017 which is your guideline for matched play just like the wording for each summoning spell doesn't itself say "pay x points place this model within 18". The GHB covers that so it would be redundant.

    The question of movement I do find interesting though. There isn't a baseline rule that I was able to find anywhere ( I could have missed it) that says a placed unit cannot move. The individual summoning rules each state this themselves. This leads me to believe that unless prohibited from moving in the wording of the rule that a unit should be able to after it is placed.

    I state all of this having only skimmed the new book. So I'm not sure what the exact wording is.
     
  18. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that for a number of reasons

    1. It's a new mechanic which already comes with it's own cost. A double cost would be stupid.
    2. There's far more requirements to the Nurgle and new Death summoning rules then there is to the existing ones. Also, actual counterplay beyond trying to unbind or kill the summoner is now actually possible. Which again, makes an additional cost stupid.
    3. Reinforcement points are stupid
      1. It's a band-aid solution, turning proper summoning into a glorified thunderstrike
      2. It breaks armies that rely on summoning endless hordes of fodder
      3. It significantly weakens (or outright ruins) certain abilities but affected abilities/units have not been updated/fixed
      4. It's inconsistent as it only targets "new" units. E.g. Adding 20 skeletons to an existing unit is fine, adding them to a new one is not for no reason....
      5. They're far too expensive to actually be usefull as "summoning". Especially when taking into account enemies that can kill your summoner in turn one. You can't keep say 50% of your points in reserve in that kind of situation...
    4. The new rules for nurgle and Death are actually decent implementations of summoning and avoid what makes reinforcement points stupid.
    Anyways, If reinforcement points weren't so stupid I'd agree with you. But seeing as how I find em stupid, and actually like these new rules. I very much hope that they'l bring out a FAQ (or GHB 2018) and state that these new variants don't cost points.

    Minor sidenote, does this mean that those artifacts that ressurect slain heroes also require reinforcement points? I've never really used em, but damn that'd make em terrible expensive on the average general...
     
  19. Xasto
    Razordon

    Xasto Well-Known Member

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    1 - 2: Regular summoning also has it's cost; once the summoner is dead, can't summon your stuff. AFAIK there's no way to kill a gnarlmaw, so you can always summon and not lose these points. Whether you think it is the same ''cost'' is up to you, but don't think summoning had it easy in the first place. There's also the unbind possibility, which Nurgle won't have to worry about.

    3. You can just do open play and boom, all of those complaints are gone. But in matched play, reinforcement points are needed, unless you want to see something like endless summoning free of charge from tzeentch or Seraphon, vs. armies like Beastclaw or any army that doesn't have access to summonning. How would that be fair?

    4. These new summoning rules really are awesome, but they have their advantages/disadvantages just like regular summoning, which makes sense to submit them to the same rules point-wise.

    EDIT: About the artefacts, doesn't their text say something like ''when slain, INSTEAD setup the hero...'' Isn't that how they confirmed that it didn't cost points to bring them back? since they're not really dying? Not sure though.
     
  20. OnlyPerfect
    Skink

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    I do think they will change things up a bit for GHB 2018 but that is months away yet. Every change they have implemented with summoning would guide one toward assuming that they aren't happy with the state of summoning currently either.

    That being said GHB 2018 isn't here and we would be working off of an assumption of what we think they will change. the reality is that GHB 2017 is the only real guide we have to match play atm and every battletome plays by those rules unless it specifically says it doesn't ( not the case here).

    Over looking the rules as written because you think the summoning rules are stupid is fine for house ruling. I for one will always play the game as RAW as I can. When you start getting into personal tastes and opinions the rules can be interpreted and changed dramatically and usually not for the good of the game.

    To answer your question about the artifacts, Yes, unless stated otherwise ( which most do now) you pay the costs.
     

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