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AoS Troglodon post GHB17

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Xasto, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. Xasto
    Cold One

    Xasto Active Member

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    Hey y'all!

    I'd like to discuss with you one of our most intriguing and forgotten big dino: The Troglodon.

    The General's Handbook 2017 saw this badboy get a point decrease. I was wondering if those of you who use this model could share with us your experience? How do you feel the point decrease affected the model? Does it feel like a good investment for 180 pts? And how do you use it with our new allegiance abilities?

    I'm curious because I find the model very good-looking and I'm just in need of having another big dinosauz standing next to my carno! I would love to fit one in my army!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  2. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts about the Troglodon:
    It is a bit more squishy than the other big dinosaurs, but it is nice because of a few things:
    - Slann can cast through it
    - it is fast
    - Its bite gets pretty nasty with a Starprest's buff on it
    - it eats squishy units pretty quickly
    - people who don't know our army see that HUGE dinosaur and attack it with all they have, ignoring stuff that is actually more dangerous
    - it is a good unit to teleport because it has a certain chance to get the extra charge distance if it hits with its spit
    - it hurts enemy bravery.
    - it can be a cheap leader for the Thunderquake Starhost if you don't want to use a EotG or are low on points and just need the buff.

    Use example: Make it the Starhost leader, buff it, port it behind a enemy unit (preferably one with low bravery) and see what those 180 points can do. :D

    No seriously, I think it is quite underrated.
     
  3. Meatgrinder
    Skink

    Meatgrinder Member

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    Still without any rend its a weak monster. It doesnt put out enough attacks to get over its lack of rend and the spit attack is weak at best. It is still 180 points for a low damage output, not particularly durable monster. Aginor pretty much mentioned all the points that work in its favor, and to add to it it is also another behemoth for duality of death.

    Its a shame, I really, really like the model, and I might consider trying it to lead my thunderquake in a few friendly games until I can get another steg to use as my engine.
     
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  4. Freddy25
    Kroxigor

    Freddy25 Well-Known Member

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    It also has another PRO:
    the Skink Oracle on it can try to unbind a spell as if he was a mage.
    This is not so useful when there is a Slann nearby, but in low points games (when you can't afford to have various mages on the battlefield) a giant Dino able to shoot and unbind enemy spells is a nice distraction!
     
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  5. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Right!
    I forgot to mention that but it has made a difference for me more than once.
     
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  6. Meatgrinder
    Skink

    Meatgrinder Member

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    Yeh, it is a benefit, but with slanns being SO GOOD now, you'll already have 3 boardwide dispells, which again devalues the trog, as you'll be facing few armies aside from Tzeentch that cast more than 3 a turn.
     
  7. OnlyPerfect
    Jungle Swarm

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    Hey, I'm a long time lurker, but I felt the need to post here since my experiences with the Trog seem to differ from most.

    I'd say the Trog is one of my top performer's in my last 3 games as far as return on investment. Using him can be a bit of a science though.

    I'll try to go into more detail when I'm not using my phone and can format my post a bit better. Stay tuned.
     
  8. Freddy25
    Kroxigor

    Freddy25 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome!!! I really look forward to read it: you had my curiousity, but now you have my attention! :wideyed:
     
  9. Paul Beenis
    Cold One

    Paul Beenis Active Member

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    Likewise, I would like to hear your thoughts!
     
  10. OnlyPerfect
    Jungle Swarm

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    Sorry for the delay.

    I have found the Trog to be a very useful utility/damage hybrid unit. Skirting around the battlefeild with his high movement and allowing my slann to cast from safety. Then when combat starts hitting anything with low bravery. I had him take out 4 mornfang on a charge thanks to battle shock. That is almost double the return on points right there alone.

    As mentioned already he makes a great target for teleport because he can often make that charge a lot easier and he one of the toughest/fastest skin hero's for your slann to channel through. You get all of this for only 180. Worst case scenario he bites it to quite a bit of shooting turn one, and Imo that is way better than one of our synergy peices getting sniped.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  11. Paul Beenis
    Cold One

    Paul Beenis Active Member

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    I like this! More so not fitting into a standard role, but filling a new one. I wonder what people would say comparing trog to scar vet on carnosaur for the extra 60 points which would they take? Maybe multiple trogs could work! Each getting 6 attacks on two damage! Backed up with a summoned astrolith your making more of those hits.
     
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  12. Xasto
    Cold One

    Xasto Active Member

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    IMO The Troglodon is the best Arcane Vassal for the Slann, as he is basicly the tankiest one you can use out of all the skink heroes and his mobility gives him an edge. When you want to use Arcane Vassal with a Starpriest or a regular priest you can always get him sniped when sent too far on the battlefront. The Trog can withstand greater punishment and therefore is a more reliable choice.
     
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  13. OnlyPerfect
    Jungle Swarm

    OnlyPerfect New Member

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    Feel free to test those options out and report back, but I would think most of those options (multi trog and astrolith) are going to hurt the trog a bit. In either one of those options you are investing 2x the points into something that is a bit unreliable. at 180 points I'm fine with my Trog getting popped but at 340-360 points for a combo it hurts a bit more to lose any part of that.

    As far a the Trog vs the scar vet on carnosaur, in almost every situation the carnosaur is the clear choice. In all honesty you should be running another of our big dinos with the trog anyway to force your opponents hand in target selection. At the end of the day the trog is a utility unit first with some decent damage options to back it up. A better comparison is trog vs astrolith, decide which works better with your set-up then run that at only 20 points difference.

    This is all just my take though. I would love to see the result of any tests games you run!
     
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  14. Paul Beenis
    Cold One

    Paul Beenis Active Member

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    Yeah that's probably a good way of looking at it! I did some math hammer on options last night and the trog really shouldn't be relied upon as a strong damage dealer! We need the trog to be rend -1 and the carnosaur to be -2 haha
     
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  15. Joshmunga
    Skink

    Joshmunga Member

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    I've also had pretty good luck when I use my trog. I always use it to prey on those lone units camped on backfield objectives, since they're usually weaker units with low bravery. In my last game he was able to wipe 5 liberators off an objective and steal it to give me a win!
     
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  16. Paul Beenis
    Cold One

    Paul Beenis Active Member

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    I guess the question is whether 180 points of something else would do as good a job? Like rippers?
     
  17. Joshmunga
    Skink

    Joshmunga Member

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    yeah they can dish out a ton of wounds, but also don't have the same utilities that the Trog has. But I suppose thats the whole point of this game right? having to choose what you need and how you need it to work in your army. XD
     
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  18. Paul Beenis
    Cold One

    Paul Beenis Active Member

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    Yeah that's right! Also doing what your opponent may not expect has value for sure :)
     
  19. GingerGiant
    Skink

    GingerGiant New Member

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    I'd be interested to see the Troglodon's Noxious Spittle deal mortal wounds, similar to a Dracoth's breath attack. d3 attacks, 3+ to hit, 1 Mortal Wound. However, I've run the numbers and I think it brings it a bit too close to the Scar Vet on Carno for damage output. The Troglodon's strength, I think, is that it does a lot of different things, and this makes it an excellent candidate for Curse of Fates. You can bump the result for the Lords of Time and Space roll, the number of attacks (becoming 1d3+1, because you modify the result, not the number the die rolled), the distance it charges, a melee roll, and even the dispel roll in your opponent's hero phase.

    This makes the Vast Intellect Command Trait really appealing to me, because Curse of Fates can be cast through the Troglodon onto itself, or anyone else. I'm suddenly really excited about Troglodons and Slann. Also, every Slann Constellation is good for the Troglodon.

    The only catch, of course, is the lack of Rend, but I think the point of the Troglodon is that it excels against soft, squishy units that like to hang in the back, but its mobility and the simple fact that it has decent ranged attack, not to mention it projects the Slann's magic range and it can dispel (which is better because you cast Curse of Fates, right?) mean it is felt across the battlefield. It may not have rend, but on the other hand, if your opponent fails a save, that 2 damage nearly across the board is going to be felt every time.
     
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  20. Seraphage
    Salamander

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Back when I started list building, I always felt Troglodon is underused and the only reason it made sense to me was that because I haven't figured out the proper combo yet.

    The exact same goes for Curse of Fate. While everyone likes it, I honestly think most of us haven't realised its power fully yet. I can still remember myself at GH2017 being like "Wow Starseer went up to 200p ? That is seriously too much, I hardly was selecting him at 160 and now you can't even affect the turns, what do they have in mind and made it ? "
    Well the more battles I play, the more I realise. I don't even use the Troglodon in my current list as it is not the proper one to see it shine but I can surely say that Curse of Fates is the most important spell of my Battleturn. Each time for a different reason, but it is.

    This is why I solely played Vast Intellect so far *that and the fact that my current list can't be broken apart to the point that 2 teleports will happen out of the main army in the same round without crippling the units left behind*
     
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