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8th Ed. Useless ten-point investments?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Ondjage, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Ondjage
    Razordon

    Ondjage Member

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    What are you beautiful people of the forums views on unit champions?

    I can see the reason for purchasing a Revered Guardian to buffer your Slann against challenges. I can also see the value of an Ancient Kroxigor for an extra attack/deadly challenger.

    But what are your views on Spawn Leaders, Sky Leaders, Stalkers, Patrol Leaders, Pack Leaders and Ripperdactyl Braves?


    Why are they worth their points?
     
  2. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Eh.. I dunno what people usually do, but personally I find the command models to be somewhat expensive overall. I mean, say you got a skink cohort unit (40 models or so), a unit saurus and a unit templeguards. You can pour 90pts into command models and even more if you count magic banner and weapons to the templeguard unit.

    So usually I go with a champion for my templeguard unit and if the points are there for it I'll also have one for my regular saurus. So for me it's a lot of the time about whether or not I have points for it.

    A lot of people have their slann bunkered with the guards, in which case a champion is IMO required, but otherwise I suppose most take a champion to take on big nasty lords to minimize casualties.

    A lot of the champions though are sort of useless. I would never waste 10pts on a terradon/ripperdactyl, cameleon skinks, skink skirmishers and probably not for COR.

    So yeah IMO they are a lot of the time a useless investment if you buy them for you skirmishing units. I mean, say you got 4 skink skirmishers, would you seriously consider adding an additional 40pts to those? I'd rather get more models.
     
  3. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    If I am trying to squeeze every point I go like this.

    Kroxigors: Pretty much always, 10 points is a great deal for a S7 attack and a reasonable chance at getting an underdog award.

    Temple Guard: Worth it just for the ability to protect the Slann from a challenge for one turn.

    Cold One Riders: They are already so expensive, so 10 points for an extra attack doesn't seem too unreasonable. You can give your Cowboy a round of breathing wound by eating a challenge.

    Saurus Warriors: Most opponents don't single out champions so if the Saurus stay around you should get the extra attack round after round. Also sometimes you want to feed a blender lord a sacrificial champion.

    Skink Cohort: If you are taking a large Cohort, a champion might be worthwhile just in case you want to save a few bodies from a character but you should probably avoid Champions in units under 30 Skinks unless the unit is bunkering a character.

    Skink Skirmishers: There is almost no reason to take a Champion unless you are bunkering a wizard.

    Chameleon Skinks: Not really worth 10 points for an extra point of BS, but you have 10 points left over on your roster, it makes SLIGHTLY more sense to take a Chameleon Skink Stalker in lieu of a vanilla Skink champion since with multiple shots, it's more likely for the extra BS skill to matter (barely).

    Terradons/Ripperdactyls: A champion is pretty much never worth it. Maybe if we get characters FAQed to join flying units I'd reconsider for Tiktaqto but that's it.

    That's all theory for me. In real life, I pretty much always take champions because I like my painted and/or converted champion models.

    Then of course you might have points left over. If you have points left over. Weigh your hypothetical gratuitous unit champion against gratuitous extra magic items or adding one Saurus or two Skinks to a block (or extra handlers for your Salamanders and Razordons).

    A final consideration is that I like to hit my points limits on the nose. I don't like 2499 point armies. In that case I might drop a unit champion and pick up a Saurus Warrior to hit 2500 even.
     
  4. Rettile
    Ripperdactil

    Rettile Active Member

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    always in TG, in small skink units only when i face chaos: charge the demon prince, challange him, die. You just gained one more steadfast round for the Old Ones
     
  5. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I take them on all the fighting units, and none of the shooting units.
    With S3 and poison, having a higher BS means that either:
    The whole unit hits on 7's due to modifiers, and the champ is the only one with the effect of poison
    OR
    The whole unit hits on 6+ or better, and the champ at best is going to net you another S3 hit.
    Neither makes the shooting champion worth the points.

    On Rippers and Terradons, I would take champs if I am also running cowboys. I can charge a cowboy in and touch a character, and throw the flying unit into the flank. Now if my opponents unit champ challenges, I can accept with the unit champ of my own and still pound the character. If the character challenges, I accept with the cowboy and still pound him.

    On cohorts, I've been taking champs to pull characters out of position. If I charge into the front/flank, my flank champion can challenge, pull a hero to the side, and then stick him in the side until the flanking unit is dead.

    Basically, I'm spending the 10 points for the utility of messing with my opponents characters.

    If I go without fighting characters, I only take temple guard and krox champs. I find both of those champs strong enough to kill enemy characters, which nets you an extra 50 VP from the underdog rule.

    -Matt
     
  6. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Basic rule of thumb:
    Saurus champs good (any kind)
    Skink champs bad (any kind)
    Kroxigor champs ok.

    exceptions,
    Skink champs in big skrox units.
     
  7. PlasmaDavid
    Temple Guard

    PlasmaDavid Member

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    I'll usually take full command in my Saurus, and a Skink Chief in a cohort. Ignore the rest.

    /10c
     
  8. Man0waR
    Kroxigor

    Man0waR Member

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    Champions are always worthy due to Challenge rules.

    It makes characters not in unit spend one more turn to take out your well placed chaff.

    Last battle I fielded 3 units of 14 Cohorts with poison and with champion.
    One of this unit held stuck a DP for 3 rounds of combat.

    Their goal is to be sacrificed for a greater goods. Just gain time for you to execute your battleplan :p
     
  9. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    Sounds like it sucks to get promoted to Champion in your army.

    -Matt
     
  10. Man0waR
    Kroxigor

    Man0waR Member

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    Its a great honour !

    hahaha you are right.
     
  11. PlasmaDavid
    Temple Guard

    PlasmaDavid Member

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    Shame that Champions aren't better now that Challenges and such are things. Would be great to have Champions having something other than a mere +1 buff. Light armour or something that distinguishes them.
     
  12. Man0waR
    Kroxigor

    Man0waR Member

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    Do you really want a Champion to do more than it does?

    Champions are the real hero, they step forward to face death all alone with no chance of survive in order to preserve the lifes of his fellow warriors... for a round.

    Hail to the fallen champions who bravely fought against demon princes, lords on dragons, vampire lords and all those nasty uber foes. :mad:

    Your sacrifice will not be forgotten.
     

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