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8th Ed. vs ogre tactics

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by forlustria, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. forlustria
    Kroxigor

    forlustria Member

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    So I have a new oponent who plays ogres. Never come up against them yet . Are they anything to worry about? I know all the inpact hits can do nasty things. What do you guys use againt these things?
     
  2. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    Ogres are very vulnerable to skinks since they have poor/no armour. Here are what I think are the top 3 challenges and some ideas for dealing with them:

    1) Monstrous infantry - it is expensive but can grind you down with stomp and loads of S6 attacks. However, a life buffed unit with lots of ranks can remain steadfast for a long time since even ogre "death-stars" have at most 3 ranks. Apart from shooting them up, hitting the flanks with skrox works quite well since it negates ranks, cannot be stomped, gives lots of S6 attacks and both a skink and a saurus have the same survivability vs the standard ogre irongut S6 (S4 + great weapon). While 3 skinks may die from one ogre in base contact, that is a lot cheaper than a single ogre dying from the krox return blows!!

    2) Cannon and big monsters - can really hurt steggie so it is often best to leave them at home. Again, shooting up with skinks to drop them before they get into contact and thunderstomp you works best or tie them up with skrox who will grind them down eventually or break them with static combat res.

    3) Hell heart and greedy fist - two magic items from the book. The former causes an auto miscast to every enemy wizard within a random range so bring the cupped hands to protect your slaan and bounce it back on them if it is a nasty result. The second item is very dirty if combined with a lore that has ranged attacks since each "hit" lowers your wizard' level by 1 (usually combined with lore of death since it has 2-3 spells that can pick a character out of a unit). Ensure you steal 6s from any lore of death wizard and dispel anything targeting your slaan.
     
  3. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Doesn't work, it only causes a roll on the table, not an actual miscast.
     
  4. Arli
    Skink Priest

    Arli Moderator Staff Member

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    The greedy fist also steals a spell for every hit.
     
  5. forlustria
    Kroxigor

    forlustria Member

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    Ive seen alot disputing this as the items says something about being able to use magic items against it or somthing.
     
  6. Daeghrefn
    Saurus

    Daeghrefn New Member

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    Against the Irongut deathstar - even a unit of skrox would have difficulty, would it not? Six wide, three deep ogres will be looking at something like 54 attacks, not counting impact hits. My concern is being wiped out, or nearly so, in the first round of combat. Swinging with Krox and killing an ogre or two still leaves this as an insanely dangerous unit, especially considering it will likely have the "2+ redirect spells" banner making them all but immune to magic.

    Other than dance around it with as many skinks as possible before they get into combat, what can we do?
     
  7. Omar
    Cold One

    Omar New Member

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    Last time I played against Ogres I took Lore of Beasts and I had a Saurus horde of 40. I just threw it right into the horde of 6x4 Ogres just to see how it would turn out. I'm happy to say that I broke them and ran them down. If memory serves me right I did get lucky with dice but the point is that if you wish to meet them head on then a horde of your own can take the punishment and ditch it out as well. I actually recommend Stonecutter's suggestion of Skrox to the flank for all of the same reasons he already explained. In my experience it ends up working best. You can bait a charge with one unit of 16/2 Skrox and flee so that they have to turn their side to another strategically placed unit of Skrox.
     
  8. wbarobinson
    Saurus

    wbarobinson New Member

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    Its our worst matchup if we are playing the standard Saurus Slann list with salamanders and camo.
    Our star players: Saurus Warriors and Salamanders look stupid in the face of S6, armorless t4.

    If your opponent is playing a strong list:
    Level 4 Caster
    Level 2 Caster
    Combat BSB
    Horde of Ironguts
    2 Units of 3-4 Mournfangs

    Then you have basically lost on an open battlefield. You need to use terrain and use it well to deal with those wide bases.

    The Slann is greedyfisted into stupidity, the saurus are decimated because they are wounded on 2 and armor is negated.


    Alternatively, you can bring a monster list, 3 Stegadons, a Carnosaur (blade of realities and glittering scales), and as many javelins and chameleons as possible. At least your speed is the same, you have wizard with use diadem for magic phase defense on eotg.

    Unfortunately, that list is worse than the other against everything else.

    Welcome to rock, paper, scissors warhammer edition...
     
  9. forlustria
    Kroxigor

    forlustria Member

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    how does greedy fist effect slann ? can it target someone in a unit?
     
  10. Lord Tsunami
    Salamander

    Lord Tsunami Member

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    if that is his entire army, he can not do anything to get rid of your pesky skinks. use them to redirect for example the deathstar and kill the rest of the army. do NOT give him a fair fight. ogres love it when you do that. make sure you have several units versus one of his (and preferably not the death star). Obviously, with T8 and regen on TG things change. you could possibly outgrind him under those circumstances, but it is very fragile. if you fail to get either spell through you will be toast. id prefer to keep the deasthar busy with skinks. obviously, after a few hits with dwellers the deathstar may look a bit more manageable :bored:
     
  11. Arli
    Skink Priest

    Arli Moderator Staff Member

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    A Lore of Death Slaughtermaster can target the slann. If the spell goes off and hits the slann (It does not have to wound, just hit), the slann loses a level and a spell for each hit!

    If you dispell the spell or you pass the associated test, no worries.
     
  12. Daeghrefn
    Saurus

    Daeghrefn New Member

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    What about focusing on light magic? Casting the 'double movement + ASF' spell from that lore alone seems like it would do quite a bit to even things up, at least from the perspective of a TG horde. It practically guarantees the charge (no impact hits for them) and will allow a few more kills before the ogres swing.
    The toughness boost and resurrection abilities of Life seem very dependent on casting and keeping Throne of Vines in play.
    What is the general opinion of Light vs. Life?
     
  13. Raijing
    Skink

    Raijing New Member

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    There magic is not likely to get off but when it does make sure they dont get off and T increases or killing them becomes a pain in the arse (pardon my language) to kill. also DONT ROLL HORDE AGAINST THEM!!!! they will get all of their attacks. less attacks from them the better. thats my two cents

    also the greedy fist tactic has been killed on the Ogre Stronghold (the forum my friend goes to for advice) they say that its not worth the time or points.
     
  14. Daeghrefn
    Saurus

    Daeghrefn New Member

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    I'm surprised they would so readily abandon the greedy fist + death magic combo in a magic-heavy competitive environment. WoC and LM have an easy time around it (necrotic phylactery and Becalming Cogitation, respectively) but it seems to give a lot of armies significant difficulty.
     
  15. Gor-rok
    Terradon

    Gor-rok Member

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    As an Ogre player myself, nothing is as scary as Lore of Shadows. Pit of Shades can cause horrific damage to his army even in the short time it takes the Ogres to get across the board to you, and most of the other spells help even after combat starts.

    There's two spells you need to shut down if he's using Greedy Fist + Death: Caress and Fate of Bjuna. The signature spell does wounds, not hits, so let it through. Shut the other spells down with Becalming, scroll, cube, etc, then get the Slann's unit into combat where he can't cast direct damage spells at it. That's when your Shadow hexes/mindrazor comes into play, and your saurus/temple guard can gain their advantage.

    If you see the Death wizard off on his own, beware flying carpet/purple sun hijinks. Activate Skink Defense Systems, and keep Becalming on him.

    Mournfangs are scary powerful, and super fast. Definitely a priority target; guard your flanks! They've great armor, so skink shooting is much less effective.

    The "miscast rolls" caused by the Hellheart item are still very much debatable. The Ogre book uses the terms "miscast" and "roll on the miscast table" interchangeably in the item description (even in the same sentence), so I've always allowed Throne of Vines, etc. to offer protection against it. YMMV though, so be prepared to argue depending on your opponent.
     
  16. Arli
    Skink Priest

    Arli Moderator Staff Member

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    I disagree, I have used the item several times and will always take it when I can (2000+ games for sure). That combination is deadly. I utterly destroyed a fey enchantress with it the last time I used it.
     
  17. Gor-rok
    Terradon

    Gor-rok Member

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    One other thing, if you're expecting a hoard of Ogres, remember that most or all of the characters will usually be in the unit to force you to divide up your attacks. Sword of Anti-heros becomes rather spectacular then...
     
  18. Ejpok
    Temple Guard

    Ejpok New Member

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    Hello,
    I have a question, one of my oponents plays Ogres, and we are testing our armylists for a tournament(I will post my list when I will finish it) but here is my question. on a 1600 he playws with a 12 Irongut units and a BSB There. The BSB has the Runemaw, and I can't do much about it. I'm running a Heaven Slann:) (Yup a heaven Slann) and if I could cast iceshard and curse of the midnight wind at that unit, than It would have been another story, but with the runemaw.. It's almos unbeatable. Also the standard bearer in the units has the standard of discipline, so LD9 with BSB means NO Panic from Salamanders, My only hope is to poison him to Death i think..
    Please Help?;/
     
  19. Lord Tsunami
    Salamander

    Lord Tsunami Member

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    dont fight the unit then. redirect it with skinks and kill the rest of his army.
     
  20. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Might want to leave the Salamanders home, they are fairly useless against Ogres.
     

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