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9th Age What are the differences between Lizardmen and Seraphon?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by Nielspeterdejong, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    So I bought a lot of models for my new Age of Sigmar Seraphon (Lizardmen) army, and so far me and my little brother love painting them.

    However, I found it sad that with the new point system the new Seraphon summoning system was weakened. Especially since the strength of the Slann relied on that.

    So I was wondering, how are the Lizardmen in the old Fantasy? How do you play them, and what are their strengths? And how fun is it to try fantasy with my models from time to time?
     
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  2. Crowsfoot
    Skink Priest

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    I played AOS but I now play Kings of War with my models and it's a great game, fast paced against the clock and very tactical, simple rules but still involved enough to get your brain working.

    They have no real strength in Kings of War and I think they are not a top tier army in 9th age or in 8th edition warhammer.

    I love the fantasy aspect it's just so involving with some atmospheric music playing and scenery on the board, my Salamanders against a horde of undead summoned my an evil necromancer, great fun.
     
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  3. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    What exactly is Kings of War? How different is it from age of sigmar and Fantasy? Or is Kings of War the new Fantasy?
     
  4. Crowsfoot
    Skink Priest

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    Kings of war explained briefly.

    Game lasts 6 turns each or until one of you runs out of time.
    You play objects like kill, pillage etc.
    You move units and can base them onto a movement tray or "multibase" this allows great potential for creating great units, see my goblins next week.
    Your units have "nerve" not wounds, when you reach your nerve limit the unit is routed and removed.
    Your not restricted to using mantic models, any model can be used from any manufacturer.
    The magic phase is simple but don't under estimate it's importance especially Surge and Bane chant.

    It's fast war gaming



    Link to the KOW forum in my sig.
     
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  5. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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  6. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Also, should I also use my models for that game, are there any groups in the Netherlands (I live in the center, near Amersfoort and Utrecht).
     
  7. Crowsfoot
    Skink Priest

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    Unsure about the Netherlands as I'm UK.

    Im on my phone atm so can't link but there is a Salamander section on this forum where models have been compared etc
     
  8. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Alright, well if you could link me (I asked for access to the forum, but it isn't approved yet I think) then I'd appreciate that :) I looked at the rules, and it looks pretty interesting, and like the old fantasy warhammer gamestyle (but faster).

    How long does a turn on average take?
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Lizardmen are a middle tier army in 8th edition fantasy. There are definitely more powerful armies and weaker ones as well; Lizardmen fit comfortably in the middle.

    In terms of play style, I feel Lizardmen to be a fairly flexible force that (depending on the build) can compete in all phases of the game. Although there are power builds (like with any army), they can field a very diverse set of forces to suit your tastes.

    If I had to list their top strengths I would say that their best attributes are (in no particular order):
    • magical dominance
    • extremely potent combat characters
    • short range shooting
    Conversely, the biggest weaknesses of Lizardmen are poor initiative & weapon skill.

    8th Edition fantasy is an extremely fun game and my preferred choice. It suits people that enjoy a large scale complex battle. It does require a greater investment of time to learn the rules and also requires a greater number of models (so once again a time investment as well as a financial one). The magic phase is far more robust than what is found in most wargames and the potential for customization is also a step above. These are both aspects of Fantasy that I absolutely love. If you plan on giving fantasy a try (and have based your Lizardmen on rounds) you will need to acquire specialized movement trays because fantasy requires ranks and flanks.

    Kings of War is another large scale fantasy battle game. It shares far more similarity with Fantasy than it does with AoS. It is one of the games (alongside The Ninth Age) that swooped in to help fill the void when Fantasy was discontinued. I haven't played KoW myself so @Crowsfoot is far more qualified to speak on its behalf.

    Although Kings of War has gained a bit of traction with the fall of Fantasy, I don't think it is a very widespread game. KoW content on this site is indicative of that because it is very limited. That said, it looks like it is a very fun game.
     
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  10. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm definitely interested in hearing more about 8th edition. Is it still played? Because I looked around Amersfoort here in the Netherlands, and so far they either play 40K, or Age of Sigmar. Do many people still play 8th edition, or is it either Age of Sigmar, and a few who play 9th edition Fantasy?

    I'm interested in picking up fantasy or Kings of War. But I will need some opponents to play against.
     
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  11. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Lizardmen where fairly completive in 8th edition.
    mostly people made list centered around the Slann and magic,
    But pure combat builds where also viable.

    There is a lot more back in the 8th edition strategy thread.
     
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  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    By 9th edition Fantasy, do you mean The Ninth Age (T9A)?

    People still play 8th edition, but of course its prevalence has dropped off drastically since GW abandoned it. It really comes down to if you can find players in your local area. In my estimation T9A and KoW are not all that prevalent either. However, the relative popularity of each system will probably vary greatly from one local community to another.

    As far as Lustria Online goes, a poll was set up to ascertain the relative popularity of each game system among our members:

    http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/what-are-you-doing-with-your-lizards-now.18543/

    The sample size is admittedly quite small, but it might still offer some useful insight.
     
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  13. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the replies and the list. I would love to pick up KoW and 8th edition. And I'm happy those are apparently still played often.

    But I was hoping to find some way to contact dutch players, or even find them here. I have a lot of models now, and it would be fun to have some flexibility with multiple games with them.
     
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  14. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Also I got 2 free books from some ebay buyers, one from 2003 and the other from 2008. Are those editions before 8th edition? And is the book from this video an updated 8th edition?
     
  15. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The book in the video you posted is the 8th edition Lizardmen book.

    The main rule book for Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition (often referred to as the BRB) looks like this:
    [​IMG]
    These are both contain the same set of rules, but the larger one is hard cover and also contains hobby and fluff sections.


    As for the army books for the rest of the armies, they are very easy to spot because they are all hardcovers and are in full colour. Only 3 armies did not receive an 8th edition army book: Skaven, Beastmen & Bretonnia. As such they use their respective softcover army books from 7th edition (6th edition in the case of Bretonnia I believe).
     
  16. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Well i asked in my age of Sigmar group, and one said he played 8th edition with a friend. But when I said I wanted to buy a 8th edition book he said: "Niels, to be honest, 8th edition is dead! Nobody plays it anymore or puts time into it. But some still play 9th edition"

    Say if some group plays 9th edition, are Lizardman still as good and fun there as they were in 8th edition?

    I heard that in that group though they play 8th edition, and nobody plays 9th. But they are positive about Kings of War.
     
  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    There is no official 9th edition Warhammer Fantasy. So when you say 9th edition, I'm guessing that you are referring to T9A or some other fan made system. T9A is definitely the largest and best supported among the fan made variants of Warhammer Fantasy. That said, it has increasingly become more and more divergent from Warhammer Fantasy, but all the rules are free so you can easily check it out. I prefer 8th edition over T9A, but that is just my personal opinion. It is definitely a worthy option to look into. The rules can be found here:

    https://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/&s=e32cdc1ac931a2ebc151c6d5f39dd567807b3879

    Lizardmen under T9A are called Saurian Ancients.
     
  18. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out.

    But before I do, could you give me a quick summary of the differences between Lizardmen and Saurian ancients? Do they still kinda play the same in T9A?
     
  19. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can tell from reading this forum they play quite differently than they did in 8th. The skinks aren't as good, the saurus seem about the same, the slann plays slightly differently, and the magic is a bit different. Though I can't say tor certain.
    From what I can tell 8th os still more popular than T9A, but still a dwindling community. KOW is growing, and you have a bit of free reign with the models you use, as well as great prices from the mantic store. AOS is I think the most popular of the options, because like chess it is easy to learn but difficult to master. With the growing number of options given to players you can make a grand alloancw that works well together, or stick to a force and learn the different playstyles of it. Seraphon is amazing in that you have a lot of options for play styles.
    8th was alright, but was quite an investment of time especially when teaching others to play, still had some great versatility with the lizardmen though.
     
  20. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Alright, I think that's a great summary! I'm interested in learning the more classic Warhammer, and KOW seems to be simpler but still very close.

    As for the Seraphon, I love the feel they have, but I feel that skinks are just really weak there compared to KOW. Or is that just me?
     
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