1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The April Poetry Contest has opened for voting! For more information, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

KoW Why isnt KOW more popular than 9th age, or AOS?

Discussion in 'Salamanders Discussion' started by Negator, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I dont understand how either of those systems is fun compared to this.
     
  2. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    1,030
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it's because their marketing hasn't been as powerful as GW. They're just not as mainstream as the other system's yet. Also they don't have quite the miniature range to support furtherance of their brand.

    In reading your reports and watching a few videos online, the actual gaming system is very well thought out. I'm actively trying to drum up some opponents in my area.
     
    Bowser and Crowsfoot like this.
  3. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

    Messages:
    5,154
    Likes Received:
    6,232
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I thought KOW was more popular than 9th. I could be wrong though.
     
  4. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    1,030
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It could be, I'm not really sure. Maybe @Pinktaco could comment on the success of T9A?

    I'm going to talk shop with some fellow nerds this week. Need to resurrect square base play.
     
    classicflava and Bowser like this.
  5. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,691
    Likes Received:
    822
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From a tournament perspective I think the game doesn't quite have what WHFB used to have. The game works, but I've heard that people grow bored of it relatively quick.

    I think the main thing T9A had going for it initially, was that it was a continuance of WHFB. It was easy for people to pick up and play. Especially in Europe T9A is popular.
    Now that we're pausing any rules update until later this year more people are willing to try it out. Once 2.0 of the core rules are out later this year we'll not update that the next several years. Hopefully most of the army books can remain still as well. We'll take a few books a time and give them a bigger overhaul instead. But we'll see how exactly this pans out. :)

    So TLDR:
    • I've heard that tournament players aren't too thrilled about KoW
    • T9A is a more direct continuance of WHFB, which made it easier for people
     
    n810 likes this.
  6. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    563
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Miniature wargaming is an industry in which the quality of a product (gaming system) is looser linked to its popularity than you see in most other markets because of its heavy reliance on network effects. If in a local area two people play a system it will provide some utility to both but they will tire of only being able to play each other after a while. If 30 people in the local area play a system, every player has a myriad of different opponents (both in terms of people and armies) to play, which will be much more fun. Essentially, the more people that play the system, the more utility each individual gains by playing it. It is the same reason that even if a new social media network is technically better than Facebook, Facebook will probably retain supremacy.

    While I'm not sure that there is any hard and fast data about the popularity of AoS vs 9th vs KoW, many reports seem to reflect what would be expected in a market with network effects as the uptake of each seems to have been been highly regional. In the USA, KoW seems to be the dominant game (although there are pockets of the others); in the UK I think AoS is slightly ahead and will benefit from GW's concerted efforts to make it succeed; the rest of Europe seems to be edging towards 9th. This is probably in part due to a heavy reliance on Games Workshop stores in the UK (gunning for AoS) whereas the US has a more varied craft store market that helps the better game succeed (KoW), and no one seems to concentrate on Europe so they have just continued with same old, same old (9th). There is still some room to manoeuvre at the moment as the market has not yet settled after the destruction of the Old World. However, whichever systems do start to edge in front in each area, it will get progressively harder to alter the dominant system as new players will inevitably play the game that most other people in their area do.

    One possibility that seems plausible in the UK market (which will remain heavily influenced by GW) is that AoS becomes a gateway game for KoW. I have started seeing this and can perfectly understand it - Uncle Atom (Tabletop Minions) explains why AoS is such a good gateway game, and as players progress on to better-developed systems KoW's popularity in the UK compared to 9th, as well as the fact that it is considerably more fun to play, could make it the 'go to' game once people want something a little more substantial. Whatever happens, Mantic seem to be doing well at the moment as Clash of Kings (the main annual KoW tournament) has gone from 36 players in 2015 to 80 last year and will have 120 this year. I know KoW's main criticism is that it might be too heavily focused on tournament play, but if it can feed off AoS then that position is entirely sustainable in the longer term. Here's to hoping!

    Are you being serious? o_O
     
    Itepixcauh and Crowsfoot like this.
  7. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,032
    Likes Received:
    8,507
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can back up what your saying, I love KOW but no one plays it in my local area so I'm restricted to playing with my son but we are trying AOS again purely because of the interest on here and there is a gaming club that runs in a local school playing AOS and we quite often goto GW shops.
     
    BAE likes this.
  8. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    563
    Trophy Points:
    93
    That is absolutely gutting! KoW is by far the better system and it's such a shame you can't get any games in. Do I remember correctly that you are in the North West? Fools of War is on April 1st/2nd at Element Games in Stockport if that isn't too far for you?
     
    Crowsfoot likes this.
  9. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,032
    Likes Received:
    8,507
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah we are North west and I'm still contemplating.
     
    BAE likes this.
  10. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    563
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Well I hope you decide to come along - it looks like it should be a cracking weekend. It will be one of the first tournaments to use the new Clash of Kings pack, so we could see some rather interesting outcomes!
     
    Bowser and Crowsfoot like this.
  11. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,691
    Likes Received:
    822
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @BAE

    Yes, I'm serious, but I don't follow KOW. That's just what I've heard and it could be misinformation.

    I know that Europe is very pro-T9A, while the US is a mixed bag. T9A is certainly not "safe" in the US :)
     
    MerciaBear likes this.
  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,151
    Likes Received:
    21,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The simple reason why AoS is more popular is because GW is behind it. GW promotes it and creates excitement around it in a way that no other company in the industry can. I absolutely despise AoS but even I find myself following the model releases and even rumors to a certain degree.

    At the end of the day, GW is the big boy on campus and anything they produce will benefit from the lion's share of the market. Just look at this forum, it is massively dominated by AoS. 8th edition, T9A and KoW content combined comes nowhere even close to AoS posting/discussion/interest. Admittedly, I imagine that a large percentage of T9A activity is shifted to their own official website, but still AoS clearly (and unfortunately from my point of view) rules the roost.
     
  13. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    563
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I'm really intrigued by where you've heard this - is it something you've come across often? I was just rather surprised as all I've ever heard is that support for KoW is too tournament-centric, even to the point of pro-KoW blogs feeling the need to defend it from this accusation.
     
    Bowser likes this.
  14. Jack Trowell
    Cold One

    Jack Trowell Active Member

    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ironically, one reason for why T9A is more popular on the whole in Europe is maybe that Warhammer Fantasy was more popular here, so when GW killed it people first tried to switch to something that ressemble it more.

    But KoW is still growing, and here in France there is a decent community, so who knows how it will be in a few years ?
     
    Itepixcauh likes this.
  15. Itepixcauh
    Ripperdactil

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    751
    Trophy Points:
    93
    That is true to an extent, the only tournament sector that prefers T9A to KoW having tried both at a competitive level is the same sector that killed the fun in WFB tournaments. You can easily spot them because you can smell the cheese from a mile away.

    The kind of player that likes to win with list building has no place in KoW, where the balance is so fine that there is no real place for those kind of lists, and even those few list are being hammered down in the new CoK book and my god had the cheesy players cryed when the details of the book came out. Man how did I enjoy that... :D
     
  16. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

    Messages:
    5,154
    Likes Received:
    6,232
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you nailed exactly the reason a lot of us picked up and loved AoS right away too. WFB just stopped being fun.
     
    MerciaBear and Crowsfoot like this.
  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    11,151
    Likes Received:
    21,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    b1c671bb18f86f53fcd0737c431d091e6060d7511903f53a5f38e0eba783c496.jpg


    ;)
     
  18. DeadlyRecluse
    Chameleon Skink

    DeadlyRecluse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    604
    Trophy Points:
    93
    How come people like what I don't like I don't understand
     
    MerciaBear, NIGHTBRINGER and Qupakoco like this.
  19. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

    Messages:
    5,154
    Likes Received:
    6,232
    Trophy Points:
    113
    See what I mean? Everytime there is a ruling question or difference of opinion a fight breaks out!:D
     
    MerciaBear and NIGHTBRINGER like this.
  20. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes, that is the question. I dont understand why people like flawed systems.
     

Share This Page