7th Ed. Yet another post-game analysis of 8th ed!

Played a 2250 game against High Elves today using the 8th edition rules as best we could but there is a massive number of changes so even with two of us playing, 1 chap reading through as we played and the store manager sitting around at the table edge we no doubt skipped over some stuff but here is my analysis of the new rules.

1 - Terradons - Drop rocks is not as incredibly dirty as it used to be. Once upon a time we knew that if we flew across a warmachine, rolled our 3 or 4 D3 well we could kill of a crew, now the crew use the toughness of the machine and the number of wounds on the machine equals the number of crew, so, High Elf Bolt Thrower, T6 W3, 6's required...didn't kill it in one go which it used to be able to...

2 - Oh Noez my EOTG is terrible now! - Not true. I fielded one today and although it didn't cast much or do much damage at all the ward save was incredibly helpful against 3 BT's, 20+ shots from seaguard and 10 archers each turn. The CV reduction was handy to have aswell. Also, large targets do not confer a +1 to hit, so just position them in soft cover and provided there are no cannons kicking about you will be fine.

3 - Slann spam FTW! - Pointless. Rolling 2D6 to generate PD is by no means great, it's certainly interesting mind you. I averaged 7 PD per turn which meant that I could cast 3 or 4 spells each phase, having another slann would not have affected the number of spells going off, merely the variety of spells as I could access multiple lores.

4 - Fixed skirmish formations have ruined my skinks! - Again, not true. The fixed formation is a bit of a pain by ultimately does make life simpler in the respect that one no longer has to mess about trying to decide where exactly each one should go. On the other hand one needs to be more aware of how they position them. The ability to march and shoot at no penalty is awesome!!!! totally makes up for the lack of freedom with placment and the 180 degree sight.

5 - Lore of Life?! I ROFL at you! - I took the lore of life with my slann today and I must say it is absolutly brilliant. Throne of Thorns needs only a roll of 8 to be cast with the slann, this buffs you other spells and allows you to ignore miscasts on a 2+. Not to mention that but it is a remains in play and so you can continue to cast other spells and this spell will only cease should it be dispelled by the opponent using their PD, the caster dies etc. Toughness 5 terradons didn't have much hassle from 3 Bolt Throwers and my saurus quite enjoyed having an augment spell cast on them which casued 2D6 strength 3 (4 when ToT was active) at the end of the magic phase to the Dragon Princes that were engaged in CC with them.
My terradons, while not T5 happened to take some casualties which I was happy to resurrect for them using the Lore of Life (finally I understand how VC players feel everytime they get to point and go "Invokation on that unit"). Finally I have to say that Dwellers from the Deep, cast on a 18+, so a roll of 14 required from the slann, causing every model in the affected unit to take a strength test or die is by far the greatest Elf killer I have come across yet! 9 of the 21 White Lions in that unit died! (Muhahahahahahaha! So many more could have died but fortunatly for them they are S4). If you are taking a TG unit then I suggest you take Lore of Life, I doubly suggest it if you are against a low strength army such as elves, skaven...the armies of men possibly...

6 - Sallies - Awesome, no partials, I say no more...apparently wounds are distributed now in the same manner as shooting distribution hits were.

7 - 10 wide units - The truly great flaw with 10 wide units is that if you are 10 wide, but I am 5 wide, I will probably have more ranks than you and I utilise my full hit potential for those models and you really do not. My opponent played a unit of 30 sea guard 10 wide to maximise his shots, shooting 25 at full strength. The flaw here however is that when my Ancient Steg charged him, by the end of the combat he had the front rank full and the 2nd rank at about half strength which was apparently not enough to lead to him being stubborn. He failed his insane courage test and was promptly cut down. All told I had D6+1 impact hits, 3 WS3 S3 hits, 4 WS2 S3 hits and D6 S6 Thunderstomp hits. Of his 10 wide, spear wielding unit he got about 10 attacks at me all of which bounced off the armour of the stegadon. The moral of the story? It's not the number of possible attacks that one can make that counts, it's the number of attacks that one can bring to bear that matters! I will no doubt run my saurus in units of 25, 5 wide meaning that I had to lose 10 saurus before I start to lose any of my 24 attacks.

8 - HElves - ASF + Higher initiative is a real pain in the backside but nothing we can do about that.

9 - Don't forget to channel those extra dice!

10 - Scroll of feedback is excellent, I opened the magic phase with that and shocked my opponent, didn't manage to topple his single mage but next time he might not be so lucky lol make sure you pack one!

11 - No more scroll caddies - Common magic items cannot be duplicated in an army list, just as with other magical items unless stated by your army book so no more than 1 dispel scroll per army, there are however multiple types of scrolls.

I think that is about it for now, hope this helps settle some fears and you know what, all told, these new rules certainly make for an interesting game.

-Eagle

 

Lots of good info there. Yeah, I think the feedback scroll is going to become standard gear, although it would take the slot of cupped hands on the Slann.. makes for a tough call.

Yeah, terradons should probably drop their rocks on support units now, though charging warmachines ought to still do the trick. The +1 for outnumber is replaced by the +1 for charging. The good news on the warmachine front is you can blowpipe/javelin them just the same as you would a giant, only with less wounds.

Nice to hear about the +1 to hit going away, makes the EotG more survivable.

The no scroll caddy thing is actually good news for the Slann.. He'll be getting a lot more spells off now it seems! Also the Slann won't be hurt too much by the feedback scroll.

 

With the war machines don't forget that once you are in close combat it is no longer the machines stat line, it is back to the crews if I recall correctly.

 

Arli, as far as I can tell, Blowpipes being quick to fire was an incorrect rumor. Javs ARE quick to fire, however, so they do benefit from the rule. You can march and shoot with both, however, as this is a special rule for skirmishers. I think pipes with quick to fire would be quite broken indeed.

 

Blowpipes aren't mentioned at all in the BRB (not even a listing in the weapons section), so it will be a case of waiting to see what our errata says.

 

Thanks for the analysis Eagleblaze,

I'm very glad about my skirmishers Love them. I'm also very curios how redirecting will work in 8th, I haven't heard much about that. My light/supporting troops usually win the day for me, so I sure hope they can keep doing it.
Sallies I was always a fan of anyways, and 8th is the (final) nail in the coffin for razordons. At least as far as I'm concerned.
Slann is very good, and I am still not sure which is the best lore. Most of the time, I went for death in 7th, good damage there. But in 8th...the bufs are just so darn good, you cannot go around them!
And (also important) what will our enemies pick as their favorite lore, also massive buffs? or more direct damage?...

And can somebody give me the lay-out of the phases please? (I haven't seen the rulebook in real life, and have to make due with all the rumours... Thanks!)

The Hunted

 

As far as I am aware the game phases havn't changed at all since 8th with the exception of ED8 specific things such as power dice generation so rolling 2D6 at the start of the magic phase etc Obviously that differs as it didn't exist prior to now.

In terms of the broader picture it is still Movement, Magic, Shooting, Combat. You still start by declaring charges and end by resolving combat.

I think there may possibly be minor alterations on a superficial level i.e. when you resolve panic tests but I could be making that up, it's late, I just got back from work, I'm tired, you understand.

This actually leads me onto my next point. The BSB now allows re-rolls for all types of leadership test including panic which is great because now your LD6 skink skirmishers don't need to worry so much about shooting/magic induced panic tests.

Each of the 4 different types of spells has different casting rules, direct damage spells for example can only be cast on units within the 90 degree arc and not engaged in CC. Augments however can be cast outside of the 90 degree arc and on friendly units engaged in CC. As such you really do need to consider each of the lores in their entirety before landing on which you feel is superior as it's not just about how much you can straight up kill with it anymore.

Take all of this with a pinch of salt please, as noted above I'm not 100% on the ball right now and my memory may not be spot on but I hope that it is insightful and helpful all the same.

-Eagle

 

Every turn

 

You roll 2D6, the total is your PD and the highest scoring dice is your opponents DP. Each mage can then attempt to channel an additional dice by scoring a 6 on a D6. I am not sure if this is affected at all should your opponent have no mages which is a shame as it means that even if you eliminate all enemy spell casters your magic phase can still get shut down.

 

just agreeing with the lore of life absolutely amazing my steg held out agaisnt a tyrant and 2 other ogres maneaters i think because of toughness 10 and regaining wounds enough for my saurus to charge in and add combat res.

dwellers below is amazing unit of 5 ogres with butcher, killed 2 ogres and his butcher 1st magic phase
throne of vines is good but not when you roll 1s for save agaisnt miscast doh failed twice in a row so took 2 wounds on my slaan.

is dispell scroll 1 per army now my opponent had three and used all, ill check the book next time i see it.

marching and shooting with javs i like 20 skinks throwing javs at yhetees did 4 wounds and they ran of in panic

really like the new rules waiting for our errata before i rip of the spears though 6+ save is quite good my unit of 10 skinks took the charge form 3 bulls with impact hits and stomp left two skinks and they held next turn coc and sv charged in wiping them out

 

Yes all magic items are considered unique now. There are different types of scrolls now though, like the feedback one, and one that can turn you into a frog.

 

Honestly, I think the Slann should be immune to the frog scroll .

"Hah! I turn you into a fr.....crap."

 

Something else I just remembered, no more "half the unit cost" VP's for depleted units...

 

Ouch!

So you have to go for broke. This also means gunlines and magic heavy armies are tough to play with; you have to completely destroy a unit. Which can be quite hard without close combat (and pursuing etc..)

Target selection is also changed by this.

Hm, I'm very curious to the first battle reports coming in.

The Hunted

 

Yep, no more shooting a unit down until it is irrelevant, now you have to wipe everything out. Also remember that panic tests no longer have a "unit strength" requirement on them, since unit strength is gone! So those two stray skirmishers that get wiped out can now cause panic, as can killing a warmachine.

 

if he wont i will be totaly againts for my slann being turnned well in to him self. i will argue until my oponent will surender. its just a GW mistake they could change frog in to anything else, but noooo they have to choose frog.

 

Can those units still take an objective?

Phil

 

I don't know, if the rumours are true and a unit with a standard is the only type to be able to take objectives then I would guess so. I'll take a gander at the NBRB on thursday if no one has answered this by then and get back to you.

Also, standards are worth 25 I think, there are no capturing quarters and the margins for victory/draw etc are now not so big. You get a small number of points if a champ kills a hero which is nice...but ultimatly yes, harder to score VP's now, gotta wipe stuff out...

-Eagle