I created these guys years ago, but that's not what this is about. I'm sure we can come up with lots of interesting motiffs for Lustria or Southlands greenskins. The hard part is taking them seriously as fluff antagonists (or antiheroes), at least for us. I was rereading portions of the Orc and Goblin book. You can have some shipwrecked "modern" greenskins with metal working, chariot building, and artillery building skills but most Lustrian and Southland's greenskins would be Savage Orcs or primitive Goblins. They'd get strong beating up all the monsters (assuming they live) and that's great for the Orc lifestyle. They can probably tame a bunch of weird beasts into helping them, so dynamic armies is not a problem The way a Waagh works is that a powerful leader gathers disparate tribes, then builds up momentum taking out tough targets then they either gets checked which causes mutiny or one of their enemies gets lucky and takes out the Waaagh leader which disperses the remainder. The Lizardmen rarely lose a Temple City. Most fallen Temple Cities are at the hands of Daemons, a few from Skaven. The Lizardmen cannot bounce back from multiple fallen cities the way the Empire, or even Elves and Dwarves can do. Besides story reasons for not taking cities, the Lizardmen are a militant band of isolationists. Orcs and Goblins grow from spores so they can't be exterminated easily, but I can't imagine their mobs growing large enough to become a threat before an organized column of Sauri or a week of hit-and-run Skink attacks would decimate them easily. While greenskins like to kill things and break people, I can't imagine the Savage Orc dominated tribes being particularly interested in looting Lizardmen. Not only do they have the deck stacked against them for winning, they have less incentive to try than Old World Orcs. Add this to the fact that Slann and Skink Chiefs are probably clever enough to let local Greenskins fighting lost tribes of warmblood treasure hunters. I imagine Orc and Goblin tribes are more widely dispersed in the south than in the Old World. I also can't see an Orc Warboss getting enough sustained victories to attract disparate tribes to join up into a massive Waaagh! So I have trouble taking Orcs and Goblins to be anything other than a nuisance to Lizardmen and other Lustrian inhabitants. I hate to give away my writing formula but if I'm writing a story set in Lustria or the Southlands and while advancing the plot, I come across a relatively slow part. I'll add a spot of action where my protagonists (or villains) wail on a tribe of Greenskins. I can establish my characters badass credentials without rushing my climax battle but the Orcs and Goblins are a credible enough threat to keep things interesting (and I have had named characters die fighting Greenskins). How else can we use Lustrian Greenskins besides as warm-up act? What other interesting story telling potential do they hold?
You could have them go unnoticed in a hidden temple/ruin for so long that their numbers grow and they are somewhat of a threat? if the Lizardmen cant locate them and they only know of their presence due to stumbling upon scouting green skins raiding things or you could have them meddling with powerful relics that they don't know how to use properly but hap hazardly use for destruction but don't know the true potential. I don't know enough to suggest much more - other than I thought it would be funny if they controlled a particular river and hid under water like crocodiles at times (like with reed blowpipes to breath and just poke their eyes above the water to look like crocodiles )
I've used Lustrian greenskins twice. And this is how I thought about them. The Volcano Waaagh in the Betrayer. These lived in a volcanic field above Hexoatl and had reasonable numbers because their territory was inhospitable to lizards and normal jungle threats - they just didn't overlap with LM enough to be worth the trouble of extermination. The fact they gathered a Waaagh at all was somewhat of a failure of management of the lizards who were keeping very close tabs on them (a constant chameleon presence). The scout / assassin who failed did not deem the waaagh to be a great threat to Hexoatl, but lamented that considerable loss would happen, the work of the Great Plan would be disrupted and, worst of all, Mazdamundi might be disturbed and need to do something useful. The greenskins would have been a big pain in the tail and may have weakened the LM ability to respond to all of the other constant threats that surrounded them. The Orkland Raiders from The Blood Dish Yes, I know it was a one joke story, but it was interesting for me to write because I needed to make greenskins into a credible threat. In fact they were such a big threat that in fact the Great Plan was actually an effort by the Old Ones to "tame" the greenskins - there was no possibility of defeating / eradicating them. (This echoes @SlanntaClause and his Old Ones genetically seeding the galaxy just to make a speedbump for the Tyrannids) Historically speaking, greenskins were present before the first LM were spawned and may have been indigenous to the WHFB world ( but the possibility that spores came with the Old Ones is not excluded). The Old Ones had enough experience of Greenskins to know that they needed to be contained of they were going to get any use out of the world, and they found a way of channeling their aggression. This may have been with the intention of forging them into a semi disciplined army, but the process was disrupted with the Coming of Chaos which caught the Old Ones out. The plan fell apart, and even though the Slann knew of it, it was beyond them to re establish the rituals once the world stabilised again. 6000 years later, during the story, LM controlled their cities and the lands immediately around them, but the deep wilds offered no safe passage. (Similar to all of the beast infested woods throughout the Empire). Our heroes patrolled the wilds, but scarcely controlled them. The Savage Humans of the Amaxon Basin were Very effective hunters and not above eating lizards. The Orc Lands were the mountainous uplands and this was, quite simply, a no go zone for the lizards. Kuada-Boc was quite prepared to throw himself off a temple rather than face them unarmed. My view of O+G in this story went like this. You know how tough, scary, resourceful, merciless and deadly a mixed force of lizardmen is? They were genetically engineered by the Old Ones specifically to counter the greenskins - and so were all of the other races. And they are still barely a match when you consider O+G extreme skill at violence. The only thing the races have over the greenskins is organisation, and the next uber-waaagh might be the one that keeps its momentum for long enough to permanently weaken or remove a kingdom / Empire / race. Anyhoo, I want to take them more seriously, but that is difficult given the comedic way they are designed and portrayed. Hence my new approach of seeing each individual as being the equal or more brutal of its equivalent Lizardmen. Except they can breed in a puddle, and take the sort of risks that sometimes win battles. Going back to your issue with how you might use them, @Scalenex, I think if there is a story with a Waaagh! In it, it is going to be about the waaagh, and ultimately if you have anything left after it peters out. Other options are intruding into greenskin territory for reasons, or encountering a minor warband which is either flexing its muscle or just doing whatever warbands do in the off season. I don't think you want to walk into a major goblin lair - that's dwarf business.
Squigs! Squigs! Squigs! Sorry... I think that the jungle Greenskinz are more of a joke amongst lizardmen than an actual threat. I mean, sure, if a large enough number of them decided to attack a temple-city it would devastate it, but the way I see it is that the Greenskinz numbers stay low due to their mindset. For example, a group of maybe 50/60 orruks come smashing through the jungle, intent on killing many of 'dem scaly blue fings' and they come across a Coatl nest. Or a sleeping Stegadon. Or Carnosaur tracks. Or a Dread Saurians trail of smashed trees that they always leave behind them. Or even a deep patch of acidic Lustrian mud. Unlike a band of human explorers - "Quietly back away guys, this looks dangerous," the orruks would automatically pick up the Coatl eggs and start pelting each other with them. Or see who can climb highest on the Stegadon before it wakes up. Or follow the Carnosaur tracks to find it and fight it. Or follow the trail of destruction and broken trees to find and worship the apparent avatar of GorkaMorka that theyve found. Which would totally end well. Or deliberately push each other into the drowning and intoxicating mud - why? 'For a quik larf, innit?' The Orcs main limiting factor is themselves. Even if, by some incredible miracle, they find a passage through the jungle that never once puts them in a hazardous situation, they'll kill each other and themselves, until they don't pose any threat to any temple-city. The only place Orcs are a major threat is in the middle of a barren plain. And even then they'll fight themselves.
I like the way you think but I don't plan to implement that in my stories. It's bad enough that Daemons and Undead need a special poison recipe. Really Orcs and Goblins are mammalian humanoids in every way that counts. They have skeletons, they eat meat and can be eaten as meat. The urinate and defecate. They are warmblooded and humanlike tolerance for hot and cold. Presumably they sweat and they definitely stink. They even have souls, at least in the spirits that can be bound by necromancers or eaten by Daemon sense. The ones that avoid this probably have some kind of afterlife with Gork and Mork. I like to think they get absorbed into his essence.
Clotrimazole or Nystatin should do it. While we are discussing such things... From Servants of the Imperium, my favourite 40K web comic.
Yeah, a lot of orruks die, a lot more come around, the point here is that while for fluff purposes they may not pose a direct threat to the lizardmen, but they can be an ecodisaster. Fighting, hunting, killing, destroying everything in the path. The possibilty of causing a specied to be endangered or extinct, and the impact that could have on the ecosystem as a whole. They are a force of destruction, and devastating the landscape can be far more damaging than the loss of troops.
I just wanted to throw my hat into the ring with all these alternative versions of the World Races. I have my desert lizards, right? and then the coyote based Beastmen, and then there are the "canyon red-rock skinned Orcs and Goblins". They don't play a part in my story and really I only have them around because my friend got an O+G army that he wanted to have a desert theme like me. He's got boar riders, or according to the desert, Javelina riding orcs. Also, there's spider riders, which totally makes sense for the desert, and we have plans on making a huge Aracnarok spider into a furry tarantula species. They dwell in the canyon lands (kinda like the mountains, right?). The only point I wanted to make is that even if it isn't in the offical fluff, you can easily make a minor faction make sense and just be minor player that ins't mentioned in the annals of history, but do pose a daily threat to the major faction of the area. I love reading all the ideas people come up with for alternate factions in places they aren't "supposed" to be.
So a while back I brainstormed a couple ideas for Lustrian-themed Orc armies/Mordheim warbands: Da Big Snakes- a peculiar Orc tribe that excels at breeding big snakes to eat and wrestle. In their spare time they enjoy participating in snake face -eating competitions. They were once probably a offshoot of a very extreme Snakebites tribes, and tend to paint themselves with lots of snake tattoos. Potential heresy- they maybe worship an orky version of Sotek? Potentially they were chased out of Lizardmen temple cities by a really big snake a long time ago, and took up snakes as their totem. Tree-munchas- Orcs that simply love chopping down trees, use huge axes in combat. They are the enemies of hippie elves everywhere. Poison Frawgs- A mostly goblin tribe obsessed with being sneaky (as per usual gobbo behavior) and poisoning each other with frogs, snakes, or other creepy crawlies. Run by a particularly creepy goblin called Khar-bugga the Poisoner, who rules from his ruined fortress in a swamp. Rain-callaz- Fanatical orc tribe who devoutly follow a powerful orc shaman known as Chakka da Rain Lord, who can control the weather. They paint themselves with blue war-paint to help increase their shaman's magical power. Howla-Monkeez- A group of especially loud orcs that live in tree house-shacks in order to hunt large canopy game and other arboreal predators. They are known for communicating over long distances by yelling and howling at each other. Da Black Crocs- A hardy tribe of orcs that use the hides of reptilian jungle creatures to fashion themselves heavy scaled armor and helmets. Weaponry is still crude, but their armor gives them a great deal of protection as they hunt down larger and larger game in the jungles Piranha trolls- A vicious group of trolls that live spread out in the Piranha swamps in small herds. Their preferred method of hunting is to lurk just below the water waiting for any movement, and when prey is sighted they launch themselves in packs, tearing apart their target in seconds. Often join up with other Orc raiding parties when searching for a meal. Possibly have a Piranha Troll King who rules this petty "kingdom" of trolls through force and tribute? Other than these few ideas I haven't experimented adding them into the lore simply because they were never a regular opponent for me. I like the idea that the Lizardmen armies were originally developed not just to eradicate species that the Old Ones desired destroyed, but specially to hunt down the Orc menace. And somehow the Orcs survived? How are they so stupid/unable to work together, but the Old Ones at the HEIGHT of their power were never able to exterminate them?
I think these are my favourite, instead of night goblins hopped up on mushrooms, you have these guys licking toads. Their main goal? Lick that big flying magic toad. The ultimate high for these little weirdos.
I can just picture a Slann covered in goblins lamenting that he is sure this is not part of the Great Plan... XD
Well, it'd probably be quickly recorded onto a plaque that will find its way to most of the other awakened Slann, who'd then debate whether they should do anything about this whilst trying their best not to laugh at their goblin covered brother. And this is probably the reason Mazdamundi wants to wipe out all the other races! Especially the toad licking greenskins...
That's another perfect name! Da Toad Lickas. Known for overt tongue-not-in-cheek humor, this pack of orcs and goblins is known far in wide for engaging in a sport the Lizardmen find most reprehensible. Many a doomed Slann has been awoken from his contemplative slumber due to their fatal pranks...
Well I did use the twist before with undead, but I can easily see Da Big Snakez being unwitting puppets of the Slann and/or Skink Priests. Picturing an annoyed Slann covered in tongue lapping Goblins, priceless.
You summoned me? Edit: I just realised why. Could you imagine, getting some chameleons together and "introducing" some new species into the gobbo camps. Fun effects, like the runs or stomach cramps. Or even better testing newnpoisons on them